TA-ATTACKS: Special Forces Storm Russian School After Explosives Detonated

I was not there, I do not have experience in these situations(luckily), and I do not know anyone that does.

What I think is that when the military or special forces arrived on the scene, the population was already there, looking for the children and for the people who worked there (I only saw one journalist remember that a school does not have only students, it has also teachers and other personnel).

Maybe it was wrong for the military to not take all that people by force, because if it was me there, waiting for my child, only by force they could get from there, I suppose (I do not have children).

Where the troops unprofessional?
Maybe, but I am sure that they did the best they could.

Could the some troops do better?
Probably, we always know what to do after seeing what we did wrong.

Could some Special Force from other country do better?
Maybe, but they where not there, so we never know.

Could all this discussion help anyone?
Probably not, maybe only the people who make the post and so use them to dissipate some "energy" accumulated by the fact that they where not there, or for some other reason.

Would I continue to post in this thread?
Probably not.

Armap should we just forget about all of this? Should we forget about the children who died? This is such a sticky situation. Some people say that Russias actions prior to this caused it...........those people are wrong. Some people say that the Chechen terrorists caused this........those people are right. I want to hear some intelligent suggestions on how to solve the Chechen problem. Should Russia nuke Chechnya? Should Russia Kill all Chechen males above the age of 15? Should Russia drop their weapons and surrender to the Chechens demands and by doing so show to the world that terrorism is a more effective tool then diplomacy? Should Putin do nothing and pretend this incedent never happened? Should the hippies of the world continue to blame Russia?

Originally posted by Flyboy211
I agree with thesaint on this one, even though it would be very tempting for civilians to take up arms and hunt the terrorists it'll only endanger their lives.

Why risk your own life when you have special forces, police and military units trained and properly equipped to deal with such an incident. Some may criticize how it was handled but at the end of the day such matters should ONLY be dealt by trained and properly equipped personnel, not a mob of angry civilians with guns who may injure themselves and those around them.

Leave it to the professionals i say.

A very logical statement BUT like I said earlier, when you mess with people's children then people will turn to animals. I can't blame them...what else in your life would be more important than your kids? Those parents will want some nasty revenge.

Islam has a very dark mark on itself on this day in human history. If I was the Muslim community I would wait about a month and fly in from across the world as many "true" Muslims as possible to rebuild that school or at least dontate the money to bury these people and rebuild their school. I already hear Middle East countries "denouncing" this crime...but they will have to step up more than that.

Look....blaming Russia is the wrong approach. Terrorism gains legitimacy with this type of attitude. Terrorism is becoming an effective way to get what these people want. Killing children is unacceptable and whatever action Russia takes needs to be a strong one.

Little babies and children do not vote.
Little kids do not tell their parents what to do.
I wish to condemn this barbarism upon these innocent folks.
My sympathies go out to all of the surviving kids, parents and families as well as the Russian people.

I now have a new feeling from the opposite end of the world of what it may have been like to watch innocent people get murdered in cold blood from far away on 9-11.

Originally posted by thesaintI dont care what anyone says russian or not the russian forces are a complete waste of time and totaly unprofessional.

Just capital thinking skills there, pal. You managed to contradict yourself in the very same sentence. Honestly, that has to be some sort of record.

Originally posted by thesaintTake a look at the link below of pictures of the siege the soldiers are badly equipped and poor at the role.

Badly equipped? What equipment do they need? MiG-29�s? The soldiers have guns, they have vests, they have bomb sqauds; in a situation like this that�s pretty much the only equipment you need.

And how do you know they are bad at the role? Were you there watching them, with that trained eye of yours? Just because someone is drssed casually and doesn�t look professional doesn�t mean they aren�t. Get a clue. But more than that, stop assuming stuff.

Originally posted by thesaintI know that both the US and UK special forces could have dealt with this a lot better and saved a lot more lives.

Yes, it�s true. He calculated everything in that vastly experienced mind of his. He knows a lot.

Originally posted by thesaintI speak from many years experience in this kinda field believe me i know what i am talking about.

Really? From years of experience? Why, me too! Wow, what are the odds, huh?

Originally posted by thesaintmean for one how did the gunmen break out and manage to go on the run did the special forces not have any cut off groups on the perimeter of the theatre of action.

The terrorist undressed and put on normal clothes, the stuff you'd expect one of the hostages to be wearing. It was probably clothes taken from the dead lying around. When they ran out with the crowd screaming like mad they blended in with the group. It would have been impossible to tell who was who in all the confusion.

Originally posted by thesaintWho the hell decided to let locals join in and use their own weapons what a complete joke.

If I had children and they were in that school I would undoubtedly pull out my own Kalashnikov. The military and police had problems of their own, they weren�t about to walk around telling civilians to put their guns away, because it wouldn�t happen anyway.

The plus, the officials were the one�s who entered the building, the civilians were ordered back. It�s not like they (civilians) were firing right and left. None of the deaths were credited to the civilians, except the female terrorist who managed to �escape� for about 2 mins.

Originally posted by thesaintdont agree with any one who backs the russian armed forces and even more so the russian intelligence i mean did no one notice all the gunmen moving arms and doing recces of the school.

That�s okay, because to agree with anything you say would murder every intelligent persons brain. You are amongst the most clueless individuals I have ever had the displeasure of meeting on the internet.

Originally posted by thesaintThe reason why it happens in russia is that these people know they could not pull this kinda thing off in the UK or US.

Good point. You are so right about everything, thesaint. I mean, seriously, people entering a school and holding the students hostage just doesn�t happen in America. Oh wait�d�j� vu anyone?

You have to admit the Russians could've dealt with certain eventualities a little better, but considering the mayhem and panic that happened it's not surprising.

You can argue that if the operation was conducted by UK & US special forces then things may have turned out differently, but IMO they are slightly better armed, equipped and trained. Not to mention the fact that the UK has had to deal with a terrorist threat for some years now.

However i'm not taking anything away from the Russian SpetzNatz, i'm sure given a proper plan they would definitely be very effective.

However as we know especially Aelita, corruption and organized crime (Mafia) is the cancer of Russian life society. The ITN reporter described how it's been known for Russian military personnel to take bribes and actually give information to the Chechens.

I think what the Russians were criticised on was the lack of planning for such a situation. The ex-SAS soldier who led the assault on the Iranian Embassyin 1982 John McAleese said they they got the basics wrong, such as not properly securing the area and keeping civilians out of the area.

Although it's very understandable that if you had a child taken hostage you would want to do something, but there's no point putting your own life at risk when there are trained and properly equipped personnely who will put their own lives at risk ij order to rescue the hostages.

I'm not a military expert and this is only my opinion.

I agree that there would be no point in taking up arms as a civilian. But then again, when sh1t like this happens, and your child is in that school, you probably couldn't think rationally yourself.

All that anger in you would cloud your better judgment. With the theater incident you never heard of civilians pulling out their weapons. This happened because of the kids, their kids, and only proves that people do crazy things in crazy situations.

As for the Russians handling this better�yeah, they did mess up on a few things from what I know at this point. But no one is perfect, and despite the fact that the Russians did what they could as perfectly as humanly possible in the given situation, things rarely happen the way it�s planned.

You just can't predict the future. With that in mind, I think this can be prevented from happening again. Putin said he would crush the terrorists resistance. There's still time for him to keep his word.

[edit on 9/3/2004 by The Crow]

blaming the sf for not doing a great job does'nt make much sense. seeing the situation
from the point of view of a news camera won't show you the whole picture. no-one knows where the outer perimeter was.
as far as whether or not the u.s. or u.k. would be able to do any better is debatable. first of all, there would never be military troops involved due to our laws (posse comitatis) more importantly, our country is just getting used to the realization that negotiations in a hostage situation will not work. i have no info on the u.k.

Originally posted by tomcat
as far as whether or not the u.s. or u.k. would be able to do any better is debatable. first of all, there would never be military troops involved due to our laws (posse comitatis) more importantly, our country is just getting used to the realization that negotiations in a hostage situation will not work. i have no info on the u.k.

Unfortunately, we'll probably find out, these terrorists love to repeat what they see works for other groups, look at the Berg video, after the shock and horror that recieved, they started making these snuff videos hand over fist, now people are used to it, and the only thing more horrible than what we've seen, is the killing of children. Al Queda could easily pull something like that off here. After seeing the video from Russia, it hits home harder than reading about it, it was like Columbine and 9/11 (though not on the same casualty scale) rolled into one. My thoughts are with the people of Russia. The terrorists have gone WAY over the line now that they are targeting children, and they have made a big mistake, the world will not tolerate this.

Targetting children is completely out of order. Any sympathy I might have had before for Chechen people has gone.

Putin, do what you have to do (and after this atrocity you've got the right to do almost anything)

Maybe a little offtopic question : Are the Russians still helping Iran with it's nuclear program? Becuse if yes than they are absolute idiots!!!

Latest news:
more than 250 got killed
more than 700 wounded
this mean that there really could have been 1200 people
Complete chaos on the streets

www.cnn.com...

One witness told a reporter that a hostage-taker had set off a suicide bomb in a gymnasium full of children

I say this will be the beginning of the end for the Chechen rebels.

Valery Andreyev, head of the local branch of the FSB intelligence service, said 10 of the hostage-takers killed were from Arab countries.

So there were arabs involved in this, possibly Al Queda. Very interesting.

Originally posted by 27jd
www.cnn.com...

Valery Andreyev, head of the local branch of the FSB intelligence service, said 10 of the hostage-takers killed were from Arab countries.

So there were arabs involved in this, possibly Al Queda. Very interesting.

of course this is possible.
As I previously said Bin Ladin hates Russia for its "attrocities against us in Chechnya)
then it's logical he probably supports the Chechens

BESLAN, Russia - More than 340 people, including 155 children, were killed in the violence that ended a hostage standoff with militants at a southern Russian school, a prosecutor said Saturday. President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) accused the attackers of trying to spark an ethnic conflict that would engulf Russia's troubled Caucasus Mountains region.

Yahoo also has a large amount of pictures as well as a timeline of what happened and when. Now all there is to do is set and wait on Russia's reply to this unforgivable act of terror

Putin's respose...

(AP) - President Vladimir Putin promised on Saturday a tough response to what he called an "all-out war" by terrorists against Russia, as the body count from the school hostage-taking rose to more than 340 dead and some relatives still searched for their loved ones amid the confusion. A grim-faced Putin addressed the nation on television after a pre-dawn visit to the scene of the hostage-taking in Beslan. In a suprise admission of weakness, he said Russia's past response to terrorism had been insufficient and said he would carry out wide reforms to strengthen the security forces.

Death Toll Rises in Russia School Standoff

One thing pisses me off. The media in America is concerned with Hurricane Francis and the republican convention. Jesus christ thats why I hate the media here. Its not smart for the Islamics to get Russia involved now, now I know how stupid muslims are. YES IAM STEROTYPING, Its because its true.

# them all, Now its even a greater power on the war on terror. And soon to be the end of Islam.

They should of tried a High School see how #in tough they are, stupid bitches.

[edit on 4-9-2004 by Laxpla]

The Crow. You need to grow up fella. This site is mostly about freedom of speech and exercising the right to speak your mind on any topic and being able to make any comment you like on that topic. What it is not about is trawling through threads looking for mistakes people have made. Yes i contradicted myself in one sentence and you noticed well what do you want a medal or somethin. Well lets have a round of applause for the crow for being so observant. CLAP CLAP CLAP. How dare you mock my military career i am proud to have served my country and to have served the many theatres of operation to where i have been deployed i am so f**kin proud to say yes i also spent 5 years in the military intell dept and i hope what i acheived may have helped my country even if only a little bit. Do not give me the childish BS you come out with. I have gained much respect on ATS for my knowledge on Military issues due to my services and i am proud and also happy to help out. I am so pissed with ATS at the moment as morons like yourself seem to think that by disecting someone elses post and making a comment for every sentence using clever words makes you look intelligent well does it f**k infact it makes you look like a dick. I have three children and i can understand how the parents must feel over in russia. f**k me if i had the chance i would have offered my services to the russian authoritys as a unpaid mercenary at the school even if it meant swapping the life of one child for mine. You may think "well thats just talk" However i have seen things very similar in the former Yugoslavia 11 years ago when the Muslims decided to burn down a croation church full of women and children. I know because i was one of the unlucky ones cleaning up their bodies afterwards with tears in my eyes. So please dont attempt to make fun of my career again. I have been there got the t-shirt got the keyring and the f***ing scars to prove it. And last thing is YES i do think the Russian authoritys carried the operation out wrongl. Infact i think you will find all over the news today that a vast majority of the Russian Public agree with me. Stay Away Child.

I think this will be my last post on ATS due to the childish people with big words and big egos who are a waste of my time.

news.bbc.co.uk...


www.wps.ru...


[edit on 4-9-2004 by thesaint]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by thesaint]

[edit on 4-9-2004 by thesaint]

thesaint did you serve in the British Army? I'm sorry for all the horrible experience you've had to endure, i'm not going to say i 'understand' what it's like, because i don't. I've never served in the military and i obviously have never witnessed any atrocities thank god. I can only IMAGINE what you've been through and what you had to go through, i don't want to bring it all back i just want to say i appreciate what you've done and i hope that you've made the best out of your life and move on. Keep it up buddy.

The Crow you're just a tit, there's no point disecting peoples comment all the time looking for tiny inaccuracies in grammar or spelling.

Have you ever served in the military, have you ever witnessed personal atrocites?

I respect thesaint, he one of the most intelligent and INFORMED posters i've seen on ATS.

Please don't leave, let the ignorant f*cks be. If they want to act like little kids who think war is like playing a game with those green and tan plastic toy soldiers then let them think like that.

Don't leave mate, ignore the wankers.