Arab League 'to suspend' Syrians

Arab League has done the right thing .

Baath party in Syria is making a huge mistake .

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by FlyingSpaghettiMonster
It's amazing how the minute there's the remotest possibility of NATO intervention, the miserable oppressors of Arab populations suddenly become blameless saints in the eyes of ATS folk. Assad has been in charge of a dictatorship and the murder of his people. They are being shot not for fighting back, but simply for voicing opposition to the government. It's the stage Libya was at *before* the war started. The half-arsed cynicism of conspiracy, painting all leaders as the same, quietly damns oppressed people, because you'll never lift a finger to help.

Maybe I just happen to prefer nationalist Middle Eastern dictatorships to Western neo-liberal colonization forces (that happen to bring death and despair to a whole other dimension when they "liberate").

And really, you're comparing Syria to Libya? You're damn rights it is the same situation. Western-backed "rebels" have assembled outside of Syria and now they are fighting the Syrian government within Syria. How? Because these "rebels" (in reality mercinaries) are portrayed by the "free media" as "democratic" elements within these "despot" states. In other words, this is an invasion of Syria by outside forces clearly under indirect influence from Western commanders.

Seriously, people who believe this crap about "liberation" are complete fools who perpetuate the death and exploitation of millions because they can't seem to figure out what is really going on. After three wars based on the same lies and exposed for being so, people are still perpetuating the same pretext for these invasions blindly without thinking intelligently.

Will you be saying the same things about the "liberation" of Iran after Islamic insurgents conquer Syria? What about when the US declares a new war on Islamic terrorism and plows right through the shambles of these new "liberated" states (that will probably deny giving their resources away to the US if they truly are rebels and not mercinaries)?

So are you telling me that Syria, Libya and Egypt were actually democracies? Or do you just support brutal dictatorships so long as they don't touch you or your way of life?

Originally posted by FlyingSpaghettiMonster
So are you telling me that Syria, Libya and Egypt were actually democracies? Or do you just support brutal dictatorships so long as they don't touch you or your way of life?

Do you really think that we are bringing democracy to them? All we did in Libya was carry out 9000 bombing runs, decimating their entire infrastructure so we can send our contractors in to rebuild. How will the new Libya pay for all this? Loans from the IMF, of course. Who puts money into the IMF? The same countries who bombed Libya.

And if you're telling me that what western media reports about the situation in these countries before they force regime change on them is true, then you must be delusional. Obviously they twist the reality to their own benefit and it's the people who pay.

And by the way, who said everyone in the world is interested in having Western-style "democracy" in their country? Who says authoritan dictatorships are bad all the time? The only point in instilling "democracy" in the countries we attack is so we can ensure that the people who take power work in our interests. It's not democracy, it's colonization. We're colonizing them. Do you get it yet?

EarthCitizen07-
Things are a bit more complicated than what you assume to be true. All I know is that russia and china could have dropped a veto ballot at the UN and the attack on libya would have been either stopped or declared illegal according to international law. But they dropped an abstain ballot which meant they were neutral!

Russia abstained because they knew what was going to happen, and they knew that they could use it for their own propaganda in defense of future provocation against Iran (which is exactly what they are doing). China is neutral because they are more interested in business with the victors, not the actual politics involved.

As for the muslim brotherhood it remains to be seen if they are radical or moderate islamic factions.

The Muslim Brotherhood is an asymmetrical, encompassing network of high-profile muslims with a lot of influence and power. They are, in effect, the counterpart to the Freemasons. Hell, even CSIS reported that the Muslim Brotherhood perceived Freemasonry to be its enemy. This is real stuff, but unfortunately you need to be able to comprehend the bigger picture to even remotely understand this dimension of events (and most people can't get passed propaganda from the TV).

Patronise me harder, big boy! Move those goal posts, yeah!

In answer to my question then, 'yes'?

And who gave you the right to say what's good for other nations? How about letting them decide?

Originally posted by FlyingSpaghettiMonster
And who gave you the right to say what's good for other nations? How about letting them decide?

edit on 14-11-2011 by FlyingSpaghettiMonster because: (no reason given)

You're the one who thinks we are doing the right thing by forcing Western democracy down their throats!

I most certainly did NOT claim what is good for them, aside from stating that what is going on there is not their will, it is Western will.

Talk about disinfo

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by FlyingSpaghettiMonster
And who gave you the right to say what's good for other nations? How about letting them decide?

edit on 14-11-2011 by FlyingSpaghettiMonster because: (no reason given)

You're the one who thinks we are doing the right thing by forcing Western democracy down their throats!

I most certainly did NOT claim what is good for them, aside from stating that what is going on their is not there will, it is Western will.

Talk about disinfo

edit on 14-11-2011 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)

You didn't answer my questions. Do you believe that Syria et al are not dictatorships, or do you admit they are and support those dictatorships so long as they don't target you?

I don't believe in forcing anything on a people. Want I want you to admit is that sometimes populations have wishes which contradict those of a dictator, and that it's right to allow them free expression. You are twisting yourself into knots attempting to justify support for dictatorships, or denying the very existence of dictatorship, purely because it's your favourite enemies the NWO who are watching or offering help.

You most certainly are deciding what's good for people - because while the dictators remain in place, the populations have no choice about how they are governed. And you do all this sat in your privileged position, arse plonked on a chair in front of a computer, talking jazz about other people's lives. Decadence, ignorance and hypocrisy all in one place. Well done.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by cerebralassassins

 

The Official Website Of The League Of Arab States :
arableagueonline.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Kindly link to me the League's active and effectiveness across the globe instead of simply linking a profile that has done anything constructive on a real life foundation.

Originally posted by FlyingSpaghettiMonster
You didn't answer my questions. Do you believe that Syria et al are not dictatorships, or do you admit they are and support those dictatorships so long as they don't target you?

Obviously it is a dictatorship in Syria.

I don't believe in forcing anything on a people. Want I want you to admit is that sometimes populations have wishes which contradict those of a dictator, and that it's right to allow them free expression.

Yes. What is your point?

You are twisting yourself into knots attempting to justify support for dictatorships, or denying the very existence of dictatorship, purely because it's your favourite enemies the NWO who are watching or offering help.

Am I twisting myself into knots, or are you simply incapable of understanding what I am saying? Because I believe it's the latter.

I'm not talking about some mythical NWO- I'm talking about real world politics. Perhaps if you would like to understand what politics is all about, get some education and experience in the field like I do. Geopolitics is FAR from the black and white picture that you think it is. What is depicted as "right" and "wrong" is depicted as so for political convenience; the reality is that all things political can be determined as both right and wrong depending on the perspective.

I simply judge right from wrong from exploitation. Nobody should be exploited, because in doing so higher powers cage their liberty. You have to be insane to believe that we are spreading democracy by topping nationalist governments and replacing them with our puppets who surpress TRUE democracy with extreme brutality. We are not spending billions and risking lives of our soldiers just for the sake of helping some other people on the other side of the world; we are doing it to control their resources.

Have you not ever heard of the "shock & awe" strategy? You are well advised to look it up. It goes beyond just military bombardment.

You most certainly are deciding what's good for people - because while the dictators remain in place, the populations have no choice about how they are governed.

I guess it's perfectly acceptable to level their countries into the ground and instill even more brutal dictatorships under the guise of "democracy" because by the time that happens, our media is already parading VICTORY while warhawks scream for the next battle.

And you do all this sat in your privileged position, arse plonked on a chair in front of a computer, talking jazz about other people's lives. Decadence, ignorance and hypocrisy all in one place. Well done.

You are embarrassingly arrogant. It is people like you who perpetuate death and destruction, and you attack those who see through the facade as being guilty of YOUR ignorance.

You think we're spreading democracy? Afghanistan-Iraq-Libya, we went into these countries, bombed them all to hell, created civil wars while we secured our economic interests there, and then we prop up puppet governments to make sure none of those peasants interferes with the raping of what is left of their country. We turned stable countries into desolate wastelands and you think we are doing the right thing? Bloody sick. I will not dictate what is right for others, but I will most emphatically point out what WE are doing wrong- which is everything.

reply to post by USAisdevil


Heres my question to you. (considering I only made out about 1/3 of your posts because the rest is either slang or some other form of language I don't understand)

Why come on to ATS and slam people because they are from the USA or other Western nations? (or I guess any nation that you think is bad).

Nothing better to do but slam on Americans and Westerners? Lol you think some minor insults are going to affect us? People have been talking about us like that for years. Let them say what they want to say. Still why slam someone, how about putting in something useful to the thread?

-SAP-

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Obviously it is not a black and white picture and I never claimed it to be. The PTB would never invade a country unless they have something to gain or something to lose by not acting. In other words no war is better than war.

The IMF wins by giving out new loans to the victorious party of the civil conflict, restructuring firms get many new contracts as do security firms. When the military is done dropping bombs that means new bombs need to be manufactured, when planes get shot down that means new planes, new tanks, missiles, guns, etc. The military industrial complex and banks win BIG while thousands or millions suffer and die. That is the true nature of conflict.

However in smaller skirmishes that paradoxically kill many more such as sudan, somalia, rwhanda, ethiopia, kashmir, northern ireland, sri lanka, etc we see the UN and IMF become more or less indifferent. The question is why one conflict(civil war) and not another. That is the interesting part............

As for russia and china behavior I must say it is quite strange to be honest. If you are going to bitch and moan about something, then the least you could do is drop a veto ballot at the UN. Why didn' t they? Lets reverse the picture for a moment considering they are now capitalists like everyone else, maybe they should have droppen an ok ballot and gotten involved in the rebuilding process. I mean more money for russian and chineese companies and competition for the west, right? A big circle jerk is more exciting than a small one!

I think Syria is pretty much done with the Arab League.

The Syrian government announced they are not interested in the Arab leagues decisison and pushing forward with their crackdown. Iran refused to participate with the Arab League over its decisions on syria.

With the increasing number of defections in the Syrian military, I would say a civil war is unavoidable. Also with recent comments coming out of Turkey, I would put it past them to intervene in Syria.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Just spoke to a business partner in Syria.He's saying that Syrian people specially alawites and Christians are leaving for Lebanon,UAE ,Russia,Australia .They fear that muslim brotherhood will start up genocide if they overthrow the Syrian govt.

www.nowlebanon.com...

There is serious fighting occuring in Daraa .Its not pacified.Turkish special forces and Muslim Brotherhood are causing a multitude of problems for Syria. Also, he says that his sources say that if does not cool down ,Assad would like the deployment of Russian army in Syria,else Syria will authorize use of chemical weapons against Turkey and Israel.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003


I didnt see anything in the article about Russian Military involvement or Syrian using chemical weapons against Turkey or Israel.

On a side note I do find it humerous in a sad way that Syria is perfectly ok sending arms / aid to Hamas / Hezzbullah, yet are upset when it happens to them.

With Syrias agreement, then breaking the agreement, with the Arab league, its resumed crackdown - I see Russia and China facing increasing pressure since they are now the ones refusing to help the Syrian people. There are alreadys calls being made for Russia and China to act, and I see at some point Russia / China getting blamed for civilian deaths the longer this goes on.

I am surprised Iran has not sent any more miliutary units to Syria.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

 

I didnt see anything in the article about Russian Military involvement or Syrian using chemical weapons against Turkey or Israel.

On a side note I do find it humerous in a sad way that Syria is perfectly ok sending arms / aid to Hamas / Hezzbullah, yet are upset when it happens to them.

With Syrias agreement, then breaking the agreement, with the Arab league, its resumed crackdown - I see Russia and China facing increasing pressure since they are now the ones refusing to help the Syrian people. There are alreadys calls being made for Russia and China to act, and I see at some point Russia / China getting blamed for civilian deaths the longer this goes on.

I am surprised Iran has not sent any more miliutary units to Syria.

Hamas is supported by muslim brotherhood,Turkey and Syria.Hezbollah is a different issue.,supported by Iran and Syria From what I know Russia does not care about international pressure,things are escalating to hot war/proxy war situation and will escalate to world war situation(this my friend is convinced about). First time in my life my business partner (an Uzbek) has decided to invest in NBC equipment,bulletproof vehicles and food storage for his family. His family is leaving Uzbekistan this year and they are contemplating leaving for Australia or Russian Far East with the islamist threat rising.NATO is funding islamists in Central Asia using Heroin drug money in Afghanistan.

I didnt see anything in the article about Russian Military involvement or Syrian using chemical weapons against Turkey or Israel.

Its not inj the papers yet.the syrian govt is trying to pressure Russia to intervene and deploy artillery in Syria.But be not surprised if Turkey or Israel attack and Russia does not intervene,Syria will use WMD ,Assad will try to turn it into a world war knowing that Israel will use Samson option which in turn could turn could it into a world war.

refusing to help the Syrian people. There are alreadys calls being made for Russia and China to act, and I see at some point Russia / China getting blamed for civilian deaths the longer this goes on.

Since when did muslim brotherhood terrorists become Syrian people.My friend has to roam in a bulletproof Land Rover in Syria since this muslim brotherhood started its massacres in Syria . He's even to invest in a RPG proof SUV like Kombat T-98 thanks to that muslim brotherhood scum which our govt and Turkey is endorsing .Sure good way of fighting Al Qaeda ,Mr.Goebbels.We sure are good at making everyone our enemy and american people wonder why we americans are so hated.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003

Since when did muslim brotherhood terrorists become Syrian people.My friend has to roam in a bulletproof Land Rover in Syria since this muslim brotherhood started its massacres in Syria . He's even to invest in a RPG proof SUV like Kombat T-98 thanks to that muslim brotherhood scum which our govt and Turkey is endorsing .Sure good way of fighting Al Qaeda ,Mr.Goebbels.We sure are good at making everyone our enemy and american people wonder why we americans are so hated.

Please re-read my comments.

I said China and Russia, not muslim brotherhood and it was in reference to Russia and Chinas opposition to any type of UN resolution against Syria. The longer the Syrian fisco goes, and the more times China / Russia refuse to act, the more people who will blame Russia and China for holding up the UN vote to assist.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
As for russia and china behavior I must say it is quite strange to be honest. If you are going to bitch and moan about something, then the least you could do is drop a veto ballot at the UN. Why didn' t they? Lets reverse the picture for a moment considering they are now capitalists like everyone else, maybe they should have droppen an ok ballot and gotten involved in the rebuilding process. I mean more money for russian and chineese companies and competition for the west, right? A big circle jerk is more exciting than a small one!

It's geostrategy for Russia, geopolitics for China.

Russia knew what would happened in Libya and so they abstained from the vote in order to not be seen as complicit in allowing the Western coalition (NOT NATO) to carry on. Then after the first volleys targetting Ghaddafi, Putin was already on the international stage asking what right NATO had to kill him. Russian foreign policy officials criticized the Libyan operation all the way through, and RT did a damn good job in spreading this perception. This was all part of the plan that would leave Russia with the moral duty to diplomatically, and perhaps strategically, protect Iran.

China is playing a whole different geopolitical game; they are vying for economic dominance, in a battle with the EU and the US (they all work against each other). China, at this time, doesn't seem to be doing to much overt political business around the world because they are more interested in economic ties. This is why they are trying to get their piece of the pie in the new Libya, as opposed to criticizing the results.

In my opinion, I don't think it was or would ever be in China's interest to dictate world affairs as a global power. They would certainly become a superpower to defend themselves from other major powers though. Remember: China isn't stupid. They are the oldest nation on the face of the Earth. They know what they are doing, compared to say the Russian or the US state who have only been around for hundreds of years.