Who's up for the challenge ?

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posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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Lets say I wanted to meet a mason face to face, do you think he would show if he knew what my agenda was, also I wouldnt make up a false excuse to meet him.
Should I just say I have questions about masonry and I want to learn more?
I think I would get told that they will send me some brochures or stuff like that. And if I am interested in joining they will set up a meeting, I wont join masonry I have all the friends I need so again how should I approach this meeting if I wanted it to happen..




posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Lets say I wanted to meet a mason face to face, do you think he would show if he knew what my agenda was, also I wouldnt make up a false excuse to meet him.
Should I just say I have questions about masonry and I want to learn more?
I think I would get told that they will send me some brochures or stuff like that. And if I am interested in joining they will set up a meeting, I wont join masonry I have all the friends I need so again how should I approach this meeting if I wanted it to happen..







Just ASK to meet face to face. I am not a Mason yet, but I have already had 2 lengthy interviews and I have also attended 2 open houses. Long conversations. I'm not inititated yet. I filled out my application AFTER all of this.

1.) Find a local lodge.
2.) Send e-mail (or call) expressing an interest in Freemasonry (learning more about it.)
3.) Take it from there.

So, there you go.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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I do not pretend to know anything at all about the masons. My point is more to the "infiltration" of a secret society. If there was some ultimate truth to be found, wouldn't a newcomer (secretly an infiltrator) need to ascend through the ranks to get to the TRUTH? That would take years wouldn't it? Just curious as to the logistics of it all, as it were.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602

I want an anti-mason to meet a Mason one-on-one in a casual environment. It;s about balls, courage, and fairness. As a matter of good research and sound erasoning, I do nto just look for those facts which support my theory, BUT I SEARCH FOR FACTS WHICH MIGHT ALSO DISPROVE MY THEORY.
Sound fair ?


Sounds fair to me. I think it would take a few preliminary online debates to set some of the parameters first, but I think if these could be established in an orderly and friendly fashion, without getting into the nitty grtty too quickly.. it might move the whole thing forward a bit.

By parameters I mean things like who's who?. (masons, anti-masons, neutrals etc), what is an anti-mason? what are the anti-masons accusing masons of? What are the masons accusing anti-masons of? What facts are commonly acceptable to both sides?

A bit of a drawn out process, but if started well, it might generate some interest along the way and become something beneficial! Can't hurt to try!



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Lets say I wanted to meet a mason face to face, do you think he would show if he knew what my agenda was, also I wouldnt make up a false excuse to meet him.
Should I just say I have questions about masonry and I want to learn more?
I think I would get told that they will send me some brochures or stuff like that. And if I am interested in joining they will set up a meeting, I wont join masonry I have all the friends I need so again how should I approach this meeting if I wanted it to happen..







Just ASK to meet face to face. I am not a Mason yet, but I have already had 2 lengthy interviews and I have also attended 2 open houses. Long conversations. I'm not inititated yet. I filled out my application AFTER all of this.

1.) Find a local lodge.
2.) Send e-mail (or call) expressing an interest in Freemasonry (learning more about it.)
3.) Take it from there.

So, there you go.


The question that i keep askin is, How do you find a local lodge of a 'secret' society? Theres a pub near me called "The Freemason Arms" but tha just seems too coincidential



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:29 PM
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Good idea, that's what masons have been asking for all along... facts, not innuedo and "well, I know its true so there" kind of discussions.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:52 PM
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Ok... how about this for a possible structure to get us started. I've never tried to organize anything like this though so please bare(bear?) with me!.

a proposal, to start the balling rolling.

1. a thread to suggest rules for the debate,
2. a thread to discuss and debate which rules to adopt.. and penalties.
Hopefully nothing too controversial to start with then!

3. suggestions of parameters, maybe defining the key interest groups/positions.
4. agreement on parameters.
5. call for debaters and declaration of basic positions. (pro/anti/undecided etc).
6. establishment of key accusations etc..
7. errr.. any suggestions?



[edit on 3/9/04 by muppet]

[edit on 3/9/04 by muppet]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:59 PM
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deleted double post.

[edit on 3/9/04 by muppet]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 04:17 PM
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Muppet is on the right track

LTD- you gotta read more


I, yep, I have posted positive accomplishments done by masons AS masons!

Now I haven't seen any from others but for some b- - - about being a good electrician or cook.

I am not interested in what the 'grunt' masons do or don't do. We ALL know someone that is a mason that is a good guy even if we don't realize they are a mason.

The ORDER- real masonry. The 'not-ready-for-prime-time' stuff.

No hospitals, gardens, airports, drug rehab places, schools, research institutions, college or universities or anything like this is allowed.

Everyone that is a professing mason must agree to immediately quit the fraternity should proof be provided that masonry has evil aspects or is involved in activities that non-masons would consider illegal or immoral.
Agreed?




posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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If you want the "REAL DEAL" version of Masonry, if thre exists such a thing, you'll only know by JOINING. Otherwise, you'll never know. So, join, go thruogh all the 32 degrees plus the 33rd, and then you'll be prepared to speak about Masonry with some authority.

Otherwise, THERE IS NO DEBATE. We HAVE been debating this back and forth for days, without any real progress, aside form learnring that cooks can be 33rds. BIG DEAL. That says nothing, and in fact, has led to even more pointless conjecture.

Unless you DO join, you'll never know the truth. I offered an alternative, but that doesn't sut people's "Real Deal" aspirations. So then: Join the Masons and tough it out for 33 degrees, if you have the balls, the patience, and the open mind to do it.

There needs to be no debate. I'm not intending a debate. I simply challenge anti-masons to "go to the source" for their evidence . . . . . . Masonry, and not the internet message board kind.

That's all I intended. If you want to debate this somehow, go ahead. I'm just throwing out some choices here, not new talking ponts. I'm not interested in debate, actually.

By the way, I found my local lodge by Googling it. Big freakin' secret, huh????



[edit on 3-9-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 05:01 PM
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Actually, its even easier. Go to your local yellow (classified) pages, look under fraternity, and shazam, there we are, or even easier, go to the white pages and look under MASONIC and shazam, there we all, address and phone numbers for every lodge in every city in the country....

not very secret for a secret organization, eh?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 05:21 PM
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Right, Theron. It's that easy.

My last address on this matter:

1.) I don't care about debate. I didn't post my challenge for it to be "debated." There is nothing debate-worthy about it. I made a suggestion, that's all.

2.) I ask nothing more than this: anti-masons, please meet masons in person or join a lodge in order to complete you research, and as the accusers, fulfill your burden of proof. Sounds fair to me . . .

3.) I can't imagine WHY you would not do #2. Why engage in attempting to refute Masonry when you have not met Masons in person (crucial for getting to know someone), or joined a lodge? If you have done none of that, then with all due respect, what the hell are you all blabbing about? LOL, you haven't even experienced it for yourself. Books, internet message boards, hearsay, does NOT count as experience. In order to lose your virginity, you need to f**k, not masturbate. Right ?


4.) It's easy to do #2. Theron gave you ideas. So did I.

I don't need proof that you talked to a Mason or joined a lodge. I really don't care, to be honest. You're doing it for yourself, not me. I just pointed out that you're all conducting "research" without actually experiencing or seeing any of it. LOL, that's highly amateurish, especially when the opportunity is there. Unless of course it scars the living crap out of you. In that case . . .well, carry on. And yes, it DOES involve getting off your MountainDew-filled asses, getting in the car or on the bus, and getting into the thick of things. The search for the "truth" involves hard work, sometimes.

When the chance for real field research exists, you CANNOT rely on theory, hearsay, or your particular, brilliant interpetation of Albert Pike, Manly Hall, or anyone else. Turn off the internet, already. If any of you have ever set foot in a University, you'll know this.

Besides, talking to a Mason won't kill you, t won't even hurt you. It's that simple, folks.

Have fun.

[edit on 3-9-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Lets say I wanted to meet a mason face to face, do you think he would show if he knew what my agenda was, also I wouldnt make up a false excuse to meet him.
Should I just say I have questions about masonry and I want to learn more?
I think I would get told that they will send me some brochures or stuff like that. And if I am interested in joining they will set up a meeting, I wont join masonry I have all the friends I need so again how should I approach this meeting if I wanted it to happen..


Sure, I woud, were you nearby. What I have found, however, is that MOST folks that call themelves masonic critics do not have the intestinal fortitude to look a man in the eye and repeat the drivel I have seen posted on this and other forums...

I do not fear a man with a lack of facts and a surfeit of opinions... nor do I think any mason would. Most wouldn't waste time on you, however, but hey, give it a try. Call a local lodge, tell them you object to masonry and want to talk about it.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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Hehe . . .

All you have to do is be friendly, at least civil. As with anyone, you shouldn't insult them before you talk to them, obviously.

As for me, I did this:

1.) Google search. Found webpage for Masonic Lodge in my area (5 minutes away, too!)

2.) Website had section to e-mail the Lodge, saying I could ask for information about Masonry. Good. I e-mailed them with some basic, typical questions - nothing too heavy. Website says once e-mail is received a Mason will call me. I did submit my telephone#. It's OKAY to give them your phone #.

3.) 2 days later a Mason called me. I was not home, he left a message.

4.) The next day, I got an e-mail saying that all people who have questions are welcome to come to an "open house" night at the Lodge. ANYONE can come, it's totally open to the public. Since I was going to go to the open house anyway, I didn't bother to call the Mason who called me.

5.) I attended the open house. Lots of pople came, mostly young people. Many questions were asked, and they were all answered. People were friendly. Refreshments were served. We had a few laughs. We had a look inside the ceremonial room. Nice carpeting. We were allowed to touch everything and anything and ask questions. Good. Some of us hung arond later with the older Masons, talkng about sports, cars, and other guy stuff.

6.) I asked a Mason who I thuoght was friendly enough (he happens to be the Master of the Lodge) to help me get the ball rolling. He gave me his home phone #, and said if I was intereseted, I can call him and we'll go out for a coffee. If i wasn't intersted, he said it was nice meeting me and wished me luck in the future. Cool.

7.) 2 days later, the first Mason called me back, since I didn'tt return his call. Asked me if I was interested. I said I was. He said we can meet and talk. We met at a local coffee place (Tim Hortons!), and we just talked about school, work, life, and discussed a bit of masonry. He said if I wanted, he would be my sponsor. I said I'd be happy to have him. We talked a bit more, and went our separate ways after.

8.) I called my other Mason contact at his house the next day. He was taking care of the kids that day and had no car. He runs a home-based business, as he sold off his large company a year ago. He asked me if it was okay if I went to his place. Fine. I got there. A nice little house. 2 kids. A dog. Nachos and water for snacks. We talked about general stuff, discussed masonry a bit. He answered all my questions. We had a good time. Talked for quite a while. Wife called a couple of times asking about the kids. We talked about family, etc. He said he'd be happy to be my second sponsor. I said that would be great.

9.) He asled me if I wanted to fill out an application. He said I could fill one out any time I wanted. Or not. It was up to me. I said it would be fine. I filled it out. He talked about his business, other aspects of life, stuff we had in c ommon. That's about it. He said a couple of Masons will visit me at my house - mainly to make sure my spouse was OK with it. As I have no spouse, it would be just a fun visit. We'll probalby go and hang out somewhere in that case. No need to lounge around the house.

10.) After that, I'll be called shortly with information about my initiation, etc.

All done. It was that easy.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 06:03 PM
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Most wouldn't waste time on you,


So what you are syaing i would be a waste of time, thank you for clearing that up it made me wanna meet you guys in person, are you also saying that they would judge me before meeting me, kinda like you say we aer doing?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 08:38 PM
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theron dunn
Go to your local yellow (classified) pages, look under fraternity, and shazam, there we are, or even easier, go to the white pages and look under MASONIC and shazam, , there we all


Shazam?

We're talking masonry not the Shrine!

Shazam- I have a hunch you either went or want to go through the 'burning sands' El Maida?


LTD
I don't care about debate. I didn't post my challenge for it to be "debated." There is nothing debate-worthy about it. I made a suggestion, that's all.


What's the deal?

All the way from the real deal challenge to a balloon with a hole in it!


theron dunn
. . . MOST folks that call themelves masonic critics do not have the intestinal fortitude to look a man in the eye and repeat the drivel I have seen posted on this and other forums. . . .


Don't get out much do you theron?

LTD and theron need to go to local pawn shops- why do you think those rings are there?
In elections- why do you think non-masons do better against masons?
*hint- the voting is secret

Have either of you attended a masonic burial? Go, wonder who these guys are that you've never seen at a meeting. How many of 'these guys' are there in your local area?

If there are this many that show up for a funeral how many more don't?

Notice most judges that are masons do NOT wear any masonic 'regalia?' Did you ever wonder why these things are like this?

The entire challenge thing was just another of your pranks wasn't it LTD? How many U2Us or e-mails did you get to 'back off?'


Everyone that is a professing mason must agree to immediately quit the fraternity should proof be provided that masonry has evil aspects or is involved in activities that non-masons would consider illegal or immoral.
Agreed?


Didn't get spooked, did ya?

What's wrong with Albert Pike (morals and dogma? I read him the first time in 1980. It changed my life, for the better!

Have you read 'Bro. Pike? I just kind of doubt it.

Educate yourselve(s)- read on a little masonic history by active masons and ponder- why is this so?

want to continue?


LTD that story about the mason coming to your home- I've had vacuum salesmen like that! You didn't have a light-headed feeling when he left, did you?




[edit on 3/9/2004 by PublicGadfly]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 08:58 PM
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Sounds fun to go snatch up a couple of old, decrepit Masons and hook their nipples up to a car battery and burn them with cigarettes...

You still wouldn't get anything from them, because there isn't anything to get.

The Masons were 'labeled' a secret society by those who feared it and sought it's elimination. These same paranoid people are the ones who made up all this spooky crap about them.

Instead using the energy seeking to destroy an institution, why not instead seek to engage in a similir level of philanthropy that they do?

So maybe they do have initiations behind closed doors, and yes, maybe they're a little wierd, but aren't we all? Inner city gangs have secret handshakes too. Destroy them.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:44 PM
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I've explained the purpose of my challenge at least three times, in plain, easy to understand english.

I'm the one with the Honours B.A. in Humanities, so when I've made myself clear, there can be no misunderstandings. Apologies for "pulling rank" with this statement but there is nothing dificult or mysterious about my challenge. If the reason for it isn't clear by now then I have grave doubts about your literacy.

There is no "prank" of any kind involved. My challenge was a plea for fairness.

Why bother debating that? Either you'll join or you won't.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:48 PM
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I have a challenge for all MASON and PRO-MASON take a grape fruit put it in your mouth and peel it with your tongue, now how is that for a challenge?

bilbo



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
I have a challenge for all MASON and PRO-MASON take a grape fruit put it in your mouth and peel it with your tongue, now how is that for a challenge?

bilbo



From their own posts- if they could get an HONORARIUM for doing it the price of grapefruit would skyrocket.





 
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