Occupy Portland Prepares For War

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posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by pteridine
 





You take it to Washington by calling and writing to your representatives


Really? Do you really think the people in positions of power and wealth are going to let that be relinquished by voting and letter writing...

I dont..




posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Jason88
That's certainly one area where OWS will need leadership, to push out these dumb student factions that don't understood the two and use images and logos associated with communism while spouting semi-socialistic ideas.



Fair enough but....

OWS and it's supporters love to spout off that there is no leadership. Which basically means ANYTHING goes. Now if a small vocal minority within the group deems it necessary to become violent who's to stop them from within?

Will OWS be held accountable?

After all, it would be carried out in their name.

edit on 12-11-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by CREAM
I've witnessed police brutality and have been illegally searched and arrested in real life (just got the charges dropped, thank god), the folks at my local station were not well intended people for the most part, they were mercenaries.

You see, the difference between revolutionaries and mercenaries is revolutionaries aint scared to die. They see the bigger picture.

So, we out number the police by far, and if any of you mainstream politician supporting brainwashed tools have problem with what the people are about to do in this revolution, you can get out there and put your life on the line to stop it. And if YOU ARE NOT willing to die for your convictions, sit down and be quite.

The drug war is a scam.
Our troops protected the poppy fields in Afghanistan. The US directly gave thousands of guns to the Mexican cartels in Project Gun runner. Our banks launder billions for these murderous thugs. 60,000 of our brother's and sisters in Mexico have been killed because of our non-action.

The US financially supports Israel who bombs a nation of people whose average age is 17, the system has been corrupted to the core.

The Federal Reserve is the enemy of our founding fathers. If you've done your research you know. Ron Paul was the last hope to get rid of it, but the media won't let the people know the truth and censor the polls etc.

We know the real reason we went into Lybia - www.youtube.com...

1,000,000 Iraqi civilians died because of imaginary WMDs.

I went to Mozambique and South African this summer and saw the mines and factories. Slave labor is basically happening today so first world countries can get cheap minerals. I've made friends with those who live in the shanty towns surrounding these places. They don't have a choice and don't know better, I would die just for them alone.

Hypocritically we get cheap stuff from china from workers who also have very few rights and have to work for very little in bad conditions. We should bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, that's why our job market is screwed now.

I'm sure you have your own reasons.

The reason these things happen is because of the morally corrupt. We can wait our whole lifetime working with the system to make "change" while people suffer, OR we can just kill the morally corrupt or forcibly make them back down.

I know what I'm choosing when SHTF.

Amaru Shakur "If you can't find something to live for, you best find something to die for"

Cowards step down..... Every Man and Woman stand the $%^& up, it's our time. 2012 ain't a joke.
edit on 11-11-2011 by CREAM because: (no reason given)


I don't post here often...I lurk all the time. Cream...my newfound brother...we are of like minds and spirits. May I please copy this and post it on my Facebook? I will give credit to your username, or simply credit it as "A Friend Who Wishes to Remain Anonymous".

I, too, have been telling people what we're heading for...and for what we, as a people...of this entire world need...it will take violence. Anyone who disagrees is no more than a fool, and is completely ignorant of the history of the entire human species.

"When the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest..."



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by Resinveins
 


Fine but the only destabilization in the "Union" as it were a century ago before becoming the United States of America by the way. Is the OWS movement that is fighting for what exactly? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think the following are true by the menifesto issued by the movement.

Basically Corruption and Greed by the 1% who rule over the 99% and treat them unfarily, unjustly, and illegally. Illegally foreclosing on homes, hiring people under skewed standards, outsourcing employment to other countries, taking bailout money for personal gain etc. etc. etc.

So your contention is now that the Working Class aka Police, Fire, Teachers, Fast Food Workers, Managers, Wait Staff, Parking Enforcement, Salespeople, etc, etc, etc are now the enemy not the ones you are fighting for.

People are fired from their jobs because of the protestors cause and effect. Whether they were the reason or not there is an cause and effect from every action. The answer from OWS is the sacrifice of the few for the good of the many.. Someone complains about them stealing water, and it is just a made up story or come on really over a few gallons of water; But lets not forget the OWS movement is not free loaders looking for handouts. Now they are allegedly arming themselves to prepare to defend against the police, and the contention of the movement is they are now the aggressors and they are part of the 1%? I believe someone said "Oh please they were making 40.00 an hr to stand outside after 911. That was more then likely overtime for the exuberant number of officers out those days. Not to mention all the crap they breathed in from the debris, and you are really gonna gripe about 40.00 an hr? Regardless does that make them part of the 1%? I thought the 1% were the megarich not just whoever is against you, but then again maybe I am wrong as another supporter told me I was a shill for the 1% because I didn't agree with him.

You all need to quit with trying to justify your every move and actually look at the people you allegedly support. They are not happy with you nor do they support you. If you are really fighting for the rest of the country and the people that are being abused by the system and the mega rich then is it really just to turn on them just because they don't agree with you? Do you think Ghandi decided that some people didn't deserve peace because they didn't like him or didn't agree with him? He sat there and went his own path regardless of what they thought of him. The movement is so high and mighty about the justifications of their cause, but they are sure as hell quick to cut down any opposition regardless of there social standings.

It reminds me of those bumper stickers "All One" yet they will in a heartbeat down you and criticize you if they don't think you are like them.
edit on 11/12/2011 by Phantom28804 because: (no reason given)
edit on 11/12/2011 by Phantom28804 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 


Bad example? OK. How about Cuba? Is that a better example? How will Socialism 'save' the US? How will the stock market be socialized? Do you consider Canada to be a socialist country?


Cuba is a damn good example of why socialist measures MUST BE implemented in order to preserve a country under economic duress. When the USSR fell, Cuba lost its main trading partner and the US knew this, which is why they refused to take down the trade embargo.

Cubans, strongly nationalist (not "communist" as the ignorant accuse them as) and communitarian, worked as a nation to become self-sustainable. They reformed agriculture to include gardens throughout cities, developed green pesticides and re-learned how to use cattle for farming instead of wastefully using tractors. In terms of socialism itself, the government has always committed to providing housing, education and food to its people. They did this throughout the 90s as well, managing to provide basic food handouts to every citizen.

And look at Cuba now- it has since stablized from the US attempt to crush it during the 90s with economic and commercial embargos. Cubans are even instituting some minor capitalist reforms to allow individuals to start small businesses (as the Cuban consolate general to Canada lectured, "barbershops don't need to be run by the state").

Again I state, Cuba is nationalist. They didn't pick "socialism" or "communism" out of the political jargon basket; the result of their policies simply come out this way, naturally. If Cuba didn't have such a strong state, then guess what would happen? The US elite would trample Cuba and again, turn it into their whorehouse. If you look at the will of the Cuban citizen throughout the 90s, they were willing to make personal sacrifices to maintain the integrity of the state rather than beg the US for help (from the crisis that the US created).

As for Canada? Yeah, we have lots of socialist-style policies here. I'm sure that critics could ramble on all day about the definition of "socialism", but that's probably because they've never personally benefitted from it. Frankly I like the fact that I pay taxes and I receive essential life services (medical, specifically). I think that's the way it should be, for all people. I cannot accept a system that allows such services only to those who can afford them.

And by the way, socialism doesn't actually equate to big brother directing your life, nor does it necessarily have to conflict with TRUE capitalism. Socialism is simply put, you paying the government to receive the same basic essential standards of right to life as your fellow countrymen. I find any person or government fighting this concept to be highly contemptuous of human existence, and only interested in their own personal gain at the expense of another's loss.


SLAYER69-
Show me a TRUE socialist country?


Ah, the typical "there is no true socialist country so therefore socialism is flawed and wrong" argument


The right domestic socio-economic policy is completely dependant on the situation of the country. If the country is economically and socially stable, then capitalism should be encouraged for progressive means. If the country is falling hard with income disparity with resulting social dissent, then socialist policies should be implemented to improve the situation for all citizens. Deliberately making life harder for the already screwed is NOT a smart political decision, even if you are president of the US with corporations on your right shoulder and security forces on the left.

This is how countries fall, when TPTB completely undermine its general population as stupid sheep that have no real place in the politics above them (significant democracy in the US? Yeah right). This is a fact regardless if the country is capitalist or communist; when the population puts in effort that benefits the government, and the government only asks for more and more without providing back, then there is a serious problem with the so-called "representational government".

By the way, socialism is not the same thing as communism. There's socialist characteristics in communism but communism is a political ideology, socialism is a socio-economic policy. Two different things.
edit on 12-11-2011 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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"When the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest..."



Only then, can we have peace!

Awesome!



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 





Ah, the typical "there is no true socialist country so therefore socialism is flawed and wrong" argument


There's also "There's no true socialist country so the theory must still be valid" argument.




posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Jason88
reply to post by hawaii50th
 


I totally disagree with you. If this were to become an opportunity for Marshal Law as imposed in an attempt at NWO, then the masses would get off their collective behinds and join the protests. Passing Marshal Law would be a catalyst for the movement to grow exponentially with some police and military abandoning their posts as the constitution blatantly gets trampled upon.

The exact opposite effect would occur. I have faith in Americans, despite petty political differences that add to no more the rooting for your favorite football team.





If this were to become an opportunity for Marshal Law as imposed in an attempt at NWO, then the masses would get off their collective behinds andNWO, then the masses would get off their collective behinds and join the protests.

We will have to cross that road when we get to it.
Now if martial law is enacted, you must realize what that will mean for peoples rights, it all goes down the toilet. The only masses that would be able to rise against it, would be those on the inside and at high levels to organize.
Yes I agree with you, the people will want to react to protect what is left, but as always it would have be an underground movement.
Another thing too, are the people united in one mind? Yes we all have our opinions, ideas, and rhetoric but everyone would need to come together under one banner.



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Ah, the typical "there is no true socialist country so therefore socialism is flawed and wrong" argument




Put words in other peoples mouth in order to push your agenda much?



I asked a square question. Show me a true non modified economically viable Socialist country alive and well today that isn't a failed state?

I'll put a pot of coffee on while I wait



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 





Ah, the typical "there is no true socialist country so therefore socialism is flawed and wrong" argument


There's also "There's no true socialist country so the theory must still be valid" argument.



Well, yes, I guess


My point is that socialism is not some political ideology; it is policy to revive and maintain a country afflicted with extreme socio-economic disparity. I don't even see the point in talking about a "true socialist country" because of this... it's not like its a black vs white/either-or argument. Its policy. This is why in some actual democratic countries, like in South America, socialists are elected by the majority. There is no socialist option in the US because decades of Cold War politics have scared Americans away from the concept, plus socialism is a scary concept to the corporate elite sitting at the top.



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by GrimTroll


"When the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest..."



Only then, can we have peace!

Awesome!


I was hoping that someone would finish it. The fact that people do know and harbor this ideal does show me that there's still hope for us. I do, however, wonder how much time we have left.



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Ah, the typical "there is no true socialist country so therefore socialism is flawed and wrong" argument




Put words in other peoples mouth in order to push your agenda much?



I asked a square question. Show me a true non modified economically viable Socialist country alive and well today that isn't a failed state?

I'll put a pot of coffee on while I wait


Again, you're asking me for something that I don't have an answer to because I clearly do not see things the way that you do.

Refer to my last post.



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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Its war time already?

I havent even eaten breakfast.

(actually yes I have, I had three donuts-two chocolate and one sugar).
-In honor of the boys in blue who are more than likely going to become victim to their own abuse.
-If the cops had any sense, they would back off, and establish a perimeter and give the people space until you can settle the situation in some sort of diplomatic way.
...
but in reality...

the choppers will come in...
- before you know it, some jackass is going to throw a molitov cocktail at the police, and force the
Lego men to open fire from above.
-then, 'collateral damage"
-but it aint over yet, thats when chaos goes rampant.
-"non spiked clubs"(I laugh my ass off every time I think about that term)- will be used to start severely crushing in skulls. Before you know it, 1000 people lay dead with caved in skulls.
-For What?

something they cant control.

As much as people are in this movement to help, lots are becomming worse than what they are preaching against.
It ruins what a movement CAN stand for.

If OWS is smart, they should NOT take the first shot.



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by dc4lifeskater
 





If it were up to you we would be speaking proper english and having a spot of tea every afternoon spending our quid on liters of petrol.


I take your point, and it's well made but....i don't drink tea (not everyone does in England) and the majority of us do not speak 'proper English' (whatever that is, it's an evolving language) and the really big mistake is we do not get anywhere NEAR litres for our quid! It cost £1.41 ($2.24) per one litre of Diesel and about £1.35 per litre of Petrol (gas) in the UK...it varies slightly depending on where you go in the UK, but 'a quid' won't get you even 1 litre of fuel here...and you yanks think you get ripped off at the fuel pump!

ETA: I hope OWS doesn't go down the violence route, it will only serve a negative purpose.

It will alienate just about every moderate who may be sympathetic to the cause, and more importantly, will give TPTB EVERY excuse they'll ever need to tear into all the other similar protests, citing public order and fear of violence as the reason to do it. Before we know it, groups of more than 10 or so people will be illegal and any protest will have to be sanctioned by the authorities.

It will probably end the right to protest in the US, and probably elsewhere too.

There are other ways to skin a cat, and they don't all involve sharp knives or other weapons.

edit on 12/11/2011 by spikey because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


OWS and it's supporters love to spout off that there is no leadership. Which basically means ANYTHING goes. Now if a small vocal minority within the group deems it necessary to become violent who's to stop them from within?

Will OWS be held accountable?

After all, it would be carried out in their name.


If you claim that 'OWS and it's supporters love to spout off that there is no leadership', then when the hypothetical situation you described occurs, WHO in OWS will be held accountable?

Each is responsible for their own actions. Those who trangressed beyond peaceful civil rights are accountable for their own actions, and the subsequent court actions. BUT as per law, a man is innocent till proven guilty.

So if the media, the police, or anyone who wishes to cast aspersion on the people in OWS, do know that they are being prejudical and themselves had broken the law by judging an innocent person without trial, worse if violence is initiated against OWS.

Since when did the police or anyone became the judge, jury and executioner rolled into one in this society we call the republic?



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
socialism is a scary concept to the corporate elite sitting at the top.



No, they'd love it.

All the good little sheeple relying on Big Brother to provide everything. Health care, Jobs, Education ad infinitum. All being corralled towards what they produce and market.

A real captive audience.


edit on 12-11-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
 



Well, yes, I guess


Good you have a sense of humor about it.



My point is that socialism is not some political ideology; it is policy to revive and maintain a country afflicted with extreme socio-economic disparity.


In many cases socialism leads to equal suffering of the entire population living under it. By created widespread dependency coupled with government profligacy on these programs and you wind up with MORE economic disparity across the nation. Greece is a VERY good recent example of this. Same with France and Italy, same with Spain. They are all socialist basket cases.




I don't even see the point in talking about a "true socialist country" because of this... it's not like its a black vs white/either-or argument. Its policy.


It isn't "just policy" when it affect people. At that point it becomes a real issue in people's lives.




This is why in some actual democratic countries, like in South America, socialists are elected by the majority.


You mean like Venezuela? Where Chavez is constantly trying to grab supra-constitutional powers? It seems a common theme for South American socialists to do such things.




There is no socialist option in the US because decades of Cold War politics have scared Americans away from the concept


There's no socialist option in the US because there's no authority in the Constitution for it. So whatever socialism DOES take place here is usually done by trespassing on the limits of the Constitution.




plus socialism is a scary concept to the corporate elite sitting at the top.


No it isn't.

They get bailouts
edit on 12-11-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
Fair enough but....

OWS and it's supporters love to spout off that there is no leadership. Which basically means ANYTHING goes. Now if a small vocal minority within the group deems it necessary to become violent who's to stop them from within?

Will OWS be held accountable?

After all, it would be carried out in their name.


Well that's the rub. There was a certain early brilliance to having no leadership, almost like terrorist cells (making a comparison, not supporting) where no central command structure could be dismantled to kill OWS - it was a beast with many heads that regrow when killed. And OWS never wanted political support as breaking apart the two-party system was in the core belief set.

Today though, over two months later, we see this group inflitrated by everything from the homeless to communist lovers, and the gay rights brigade with everything in between. Their core messages are getting hijacked by a vocal minority who are, quite frankly, more interesting to the media (I think we all know why as that's an economics point).

Anyways, I think it's time for OWS to solidified itself under one leader, or at least an official counsel, and start getting political. That way they become responsible for their actions, but in a good way, where they take credit for good while distancing themselves from the bad (the violence).



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
If you claim that 'OWS and it's supporters love to spout off that there is no leadership', then when the hypothetical situation you described occurs, WHO in OWS will be held accountable?


The problem with your next argument is that we have already seen what happens.

Denial Denial Denial.

"It was an isolated incident" or "that was not OWS Sanctions" or "it was carried out by Police plants"

Yeah some of us have been reading the threads and posts made by some supporters....


Each is responsible for their own actions. Those who trangressed beyond peaceful civil rights are accountable for their own actions, and the subsequent court actions. BUT as per law, a man is innocent till proven guilty.


AND in the mean time proeprty is dammged and or stolen. People will be caught in the crossfire because a small minority of the population wants to force their view on the whole. Whether the whole wants it or not.

That argument flies in the face of the basic premise of OWS stance.

But the ends justifies the means because "you are either with us, Or against us"

GWB OWS




So if the media, the police, or anyone who wishes to cast aspersion on the people in OWS, do know that they are being prejudical and themselves had broken the law by judging an innocent person without trial, worse if violence is initiated against OWS.


The media nor police have to do that. People are seeing what is and has transpired on their own. The whole media argument is loosing wind. People can see for themselves.





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