Occupy Portland Prepares For War

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Phantom28804

 

Socialism has failed... Capitalism has failed.. We need something new....and its going to happen with or without you...

Except what you have in the west ain't capitalism. It's crony capitalism, aka economic fascism. Where big corporations and governments are in bed to screw everyone and steal everything.

This ain't capitalism. In capitalism, the big banks would have failed, they wouldn't have had bailouts... etc... Corporations wouldn't have been given TAX INCENTIVES to move jobs to China... yep that happened...there would be no FED... congress couldn't do unlimited deficits... things would be very different if we had real capitalism.

I apologize for the length of this post

I took a day off of AboveTopSecret, and I come back and it seems as though the digital sh!t has hit the fan with you people. Did any of you actually research the claims in the OP? The allegations are rumor, no pictures, and no video, just people discussing the “fortifying of the park”? If this isn’t the biggest wash over of propaganda I’ve ever heard, I don’t know what is. The most upsetting part of all of this isn’t even the baseless claims, it’s the bickering between ATS members, which is causing me to lose all faith in some of you people.
I’m having trouble trying to fathom the level of ignorance it requires for people to still believe that OWS has anything to do with party lines or the woes of an “entitled generation”. Of course I shouldn’t be surprised, as there are still so many of you who claim that OWS doesn’t have a concise message. The very same people who bash the mainstream media in one thread for fabricating the news, then come into an Occupy themed thread and regurgitate the same nonsense you just saw on FOX, CNN, or MSNBC. I’m going to refrain from name calling because it does nothing to remedy the lack of understanding, and let’s face it, we’re all hypocrites, but the truth remains; OWS was not designed as a liberal soapbox no more than the Tea Party was designed to push Republican ideology. Sure the Tea Party was hijacked by the Republicans, as the Democrats will likely do the same with Occupy, but Occupy’s message still remains;
It is a stance against injustice, plain and simple. Pick your poison; maybe you’re pissed about the toxins they put in our food, while passing laws to make unmolested food impossible to come by, maybe it’s the vaccines that make us sicker and give us mental and physical health issues, but are required by law for our children to attend public schools, maybe it’s our jobs being shipped overseas so that some child labor slave can go do it for us at a fraction of the costs, working 90 hours a week, maybe you’re upset about politicians who, no matter whom you vote for, seem to be infected with SSDD syndrome, or maybe it’s the bankers who fuel all of the previous issues to line their pockets, push legislation through Congressmen and Senators, even Presidents they own, bought and paid for. They wage wars for gold and oil on the blood, sweat, and expense of We The People. They trap us into banking scams, purposeful debt rackets that leave us indentured to them for a lifetime. They make decisions at secret meetings about how they will handle over population, entertaining ideas like nuclear attacks, plagues, famines, wars, sterilization, but always keeping the subject of Eugenics in the forethought of their plans, but of course their version of eugenics doesn’t include you or I, not unless you have some family tie.
Maybe those people in the park are gathering sticks and digging holes, and maybe they aren’t. What difference does it make? A hole is a hole, until you begin shooting rubber bullets into the crowd, then it becomes a fortress. A stick is a stick, until you try to assault a peaceful protester, then it becomes a bludgeon for self-defense. Just like a cop is a cop until he decides to take a “donation” from the banks, curbs his oath to uphold the law, and becomes a mercenary for the very system that has corrupted this planet. And a protester is just a protester, until he/she takes up arms against those who stand for corruption and endorse civil injustice for the sake of personal gain, then this person, this single individual becomes a revolutionary, and if this Revolutionary joins with those of like mind, who understand that (right or left) we are all in this together, that the system must be rebooted in order to begin again, that the devil is always in the details, but those details won’t amount to a damn thing until we rid ourselves of the source of the problem first, then this single Revolutionary is no longer alone. He/she has become a force, an army.
The Republicans want change in DC, but that change will never come until we clean out the corruptors on Wall Street who pay for elections and for politicians to pass the legislation that pillages the everyman, while empowering the rich. The Democrats want a system that benefits all men equally, that as part of our inalienable rights, we should be allowed access to the best free education and healthcare that mankind can provide, that everyone, no matter their station in life, should be allotted the same chances that the next man or the man before was allowed.
We can discuss the rebuilding of the system, as our forefathers did, once the old system is removed. We can discuss the details and all of their devilry once it will matter when decisions are made by the people, but the key is, we must get there first. The goal, whether we be right or left (if you still believe in party lines) is to get rid of corruption and restore the power to the people.

~FugitveSoul

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Have you ever been to a socialist country? Higher standards of living isn't so bad you know...

Show me a TRUE socialist country?

What we have are "Modified Socialistic" countries. You know damn well many protesters are carrying signs and demanding outright. "Communism" I'd post some pictures but they would be ignored.

The fact remains that none of the people demanding real Communism have ever lived in a true communist state. It works great on paper as an academic exercise but in the real world Communism kills and kills by the tens of millions.

All anybody has to do is look at the very real history of Eastern Europe behind the iron curtain or the Soviet Union under Stalin not to mention Red China under Mao and references the 30+ millions killed during the cultural revolution.

So yeah I question some members intent.

Excuse me for viewing all aspects of this "Movement"

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by jameshawkings

By the way, it is not Occupy who would set off the bombs. It's along the lines of the bombs we see in Iraq, Afghan etc, where they are actually set off by the secret services, then blamed on the natives. This gives the impression that troops, martial law etc are justified. Smoke & Mirrors

I got that part of your plan. The problem would be convincing others that Occupy did it. They don't have access to explosives. The materials for IED's are not plentiful in Portland. The reason has to be convincing and consistent with the group at hand.

All one has to do is start a riot or two and in comes the Nat Guard; no bombs needed.

I'm talking about a few months, maybe more, down the line, it wouldn't be believeable at this stage

This does not suprise me, as I have witness this kind of preparation first hand myself.
During the FTAA protests in Miami, I stayed at this crusty punk warehouse a little ways from the site of the protest. Inside, there were meals being made, plans being drawn up, and workshops... educating people with whats going on with the FTAA. On the roof we took turns watching as police would drive by, and make record of their number. At night there was a helicopter in constant flight overhead shining a spotlight down. It felt like we were in a war zone alright... a few hours after I left there, it was raided and quite a few people were arrested.
Long story short, there was a group of about 20-30 people building shields and layered cardboard armor. Obviously not a good sign, but these groups do exist. Last I heard they were all picked up while they were marching towards the site of the protest.
But it didnt matter in the end, because we were all pushed back and many were injured with rubber bullets anyway.
The consequences however if these fellas had made it there... would have been much more severe Im sure.

Unless however, they were far far better organized and in larger numbers.

This was never about our right to camp or peacfully protest.

Only the sheep think so.

Go sit on your couch in the warmth playing COD8 and BF7 while real men and women make a difference.

More and more people are getting to the point where there willing to give there lives for true freedom.

But i guess most of you like being molested at ariports, having your economy purposfully flushed down the toilet, losing your job oppurtunities for you and your children, having the corrupt officals allow heroin and coc aine into the country, and allow the fed to print fake money out of thin air for you to borrow on to go to school and then you can work in mc donalds for the next 50 years to pay it off. Or maybe your just to blind and stupid to see that living check to check is nothing more than slavery.

But not everyone is able to re-write their subconcious and forget all the crap thats been brainwashed into them. But i hope you do casue if you dont analyze the lies you call truth your gonna find yourself on the wrong side of a civil war.

And the Sheep says... (insert your comment here)

reply to post by jameshawkings


Even in a few months there will be no reason to plant bombs. This would complicate the plot and allow for discovery. Agents provocateurs can start riots with looting [the real purpose of most riots] that will require many troops in place to maintain order. Clashes, inevitable with large numbers of nervous troops and protesters, will follow requiring yet more troops, and so on.
Much better than planted bombs.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

Once the deaths mount at the hands of the cops, it will be a 'WAR' and rightfully so. The citizens are fed up with stormtrooper tactics by gun happy cops. As Malcom X said it "By any means necessary. I don't advocate violence, I advocate self defense against the minions of the tyrants. Stand up for your freedoms or they will vanish, sure as the banks and wealthy want you dead or subserviant. When the powers above you whom you have hired to serve and protect you think they can also prey on you, then it's time to remove the same. There can be nothing to come out of OWS but confrontation, and the armies of the powerful will not be on the side of the citizen, they will be on the side of the people with the biggest $'s hoping to get their share. Cops have somewhat become mersenaries.

Originally posted by kman420
This was never about our right to camp or peacfully protest.

Only the sheep think so.

Go sit on your couch in the warmth playing COD8 and BF7 while real men and women make a difference.

More and more people are getting to the point where there willing to give there lives for true freedom.

But i guess most of you like being molested at ariports, having your economy purposfully flushed down the toilet, losing your job oppurtunities for you and your children, having the corrupt officals allow heroin and coc aine into the country, and allow the fed to print fake money out of thin air for you to borrow on to go to school and then you can work in mc donalds for the next 50 years to pay it off. Or maybe your just to blind and stupid to see that living check to check is nothing more than slavery.

But not everyone is able to re-write their subconcious and forget all the crap thats been brainwashed into them. But i hope you do casue if you dont analyze the lies you call truth your gonna find yourself on the wrong side of a civil war.

And the Sheep says... (insert your comment here)

The Irony of it all is that the OWS movement are the ones acting like Sheep. You are being herded, used, and harvested for the greater good of TPTB. Do you really for one second think if you were hurting their agenda in anyway you would still be allowed to continue your protest? They would have squashed it if it was a real threat to them. You are doing nothing but furthering the socialistic agenda that our government has been pushing for for almost 30 yrs now. So sorry but the only sheep are the Occupy Movement.

For the sake of argument lets assume that we are the sheep blindly following the leaders of the free world and listening to everything they say. We are endlessly fighting for what we have been told is the right thing to do and what we believe is the right thing to do. We are going day in and day out doing the same thing because that is what we are programmed to do, and we refuse to listen to any of the "dissenters" of the OWS movement.

Now take it reverse it and then tell me how you are acting any different?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/ows_12.jpg[/atsimg]There's already been plenty of violence and death, and disease, and destruction. That's all OWS has turned out to be.

GO FIGURE.

These people want violence. They all say they wanna it to be like Tahrir Square.
Well if these people aren't stopped, they'll get it. Absolutely astonishing.

Originally posted by neo96
I have no respect for these people preparing for war? shelids? molotov cock tails? etc.

No that stupidity needs to end now.

No, they are doing the right thing.

reply to post by hawaii50th


I totally disagree with you. If this were to become an opportunity for Marshal Law as imposed in an attempt at NWO, then the masses would get off their collective behinds and join the protests. Passing Marshal Law would be a catalyst for the movement to grow exponentially with some police and military abandoning their posts as the constitution blatantly gets trampled upon.

The exact opposite effect would occur. I have faith in Americans, despite petty political differences that add to no more the rooting for your favorite football team.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You are so quick to damn the socialist nations. What about Amerika? Why is it that most of the "socialist nations" citizens call us a repressive police state. We'd be advised not to thow stones when we live in glass houses.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Agreed, these cops need to get whats coming to them. What really ticks me is that the cops in the video acting completely normal saying things like; "Oh yea.....we gave them a deadline.....we warned them......blablabla" and as well id like to see the protests not gone but changed and made into something that's not a friggin joke, but the state acts like they have a right to stop their protesting.......and that's what the deadline really is: An attempt to illegally stop the protests "legally"

reply to post by Phantom28804


Of course Lincoln owned no slaves... glad you learned something.

Let's see if we can repeat this process

Your contention was... civil war huge mistake. Now your links indicate old Abe's motivations were first to preserve the union. And he would do so by any means.. peacefully if he could... by war if not. That being said.. obviously since the war happened, he obviously felt that the only way. And... the Union was preserved.

So.. huge mistake? Is a fractured country a better option?

The tensions that lead up to this point were most definitely not all based on slavery. A great deal was because of monetary disputes between North and South.. and arguments over fair representation in government. And cultural differences that exacerbated most issues.

There was a schism between North and South... a rather large and nasty one.. due to the aforementioned reasons and no doubt any number of smaller ones. They didn't like each other.. they didn't trust each other... mutual respect is absent.

Now look at the situation today. A similar schism exists today. Every bit as nasty. Distrust.. dislike.. disillusionment.

Except this time it doesn't run along state lines... but class lines.

And hmm.. how' s the union looking now.. especially taking into account how financially troubled most states are.

Not really looking too stable

How is it to be preserved? Not by continuing as we have .. it's not sustainable.

So what to do? negotiate? With who? Government? They're not trusted anymore.

Granted this analogy between then and now is not exact, but there are a good number of similarities.

So what to do? How to save this? Is violence and class war an option? Is it likely?

Is it inevitable?

Can we avoid it?

How? When the political process and those involved in it are looked at like criminals with red and blue tie fetishes. They are "them". Not us.

So what's the solution? Is violence the only way? Or a huge mistake as you say?

It's kind of obvious more of the same isn't going to go over well.

I've no idea

Slainte

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You are so quick to damn the socialist nations. What about Amerika? Why is it that most of the "socialist nations" citizens call us a repressive police state. We'd be advised not to thow stones when we live in glass houses.

Who is damning "Socialism" ?

I have issues with those who are calling for outright Communism while hiding behind the "Socialist" Name-brand. All neatly packaged to fool the bystander...

People call those who are critical of the Movement blind...

The title of this thread is a bit sensational. Are people in Oregon not allowed to carry firearms? The police sure are, so arming themselves with wooden shields, and sticks with nails will just force them to take it up a notch. Are they gonna hold the line against the invading Persian armies 300 style?? That's one thing I love about living here in AZ, we're allowed to possess and openly carry pretty much anything the police have. I think it keeps a certain level of mutual respect. There was a video of that neo-nazi JT Ready and his guys in fatigues armed with AR-15's standing in front of the police at the occupy demonstrations here in Phoenix, not sure if he turned over a new leaf protecting a socialist movement or just wanted a reason to stand off with the government. But, things remained peaceful.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Pictures or it didn't happen.

I think this is non-sense made up my the media to pull favor to their side. Everyone knows TPTB & MSM is losing the popularity battle with OWS.

OWS + WWW > TPTB + MSM

Do the math.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Exactly, what we need is true capitalism, and a true free market as was intended. The crony capitalism, aka corporatism, aka corporate fascism we have now is not even close. In a true free market, large abusive monopolies will fail, since they won't be able to buy politicians to pass laws that kill any competition. The Monsantos, the big Pharma companies, etc. would be toast.

The occupy movement is being co-opted by the left wing of the establishment, no different than the tea party was co-opted by the right wing of the establishment. Both movements started out with good intentions, but when it comes to manipulation and hijacking, TPTB are good, they're real good.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The funny thing is that socialistic principals surround us everywhere in America, and you have surely benefited from it as does every detractor of socialism.

I do agree with your point, that communism masked as socialism is indeed a bad thing. That's certainly one area where OWS will need leadership, to push out these dumb student factions that don't understood the two and use images and logos associated with communism while spouting semi-socialistic ideas.