Occupy Portland Prepares For War, page 18


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reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 09:41 AM by Resinveins
reply to post by sdcigarpig


hmmm I'm going to go with option three... and let the grown ups make their own minds up.

It's been my experience that violence is almost always the outcome when you try to do things to people against their will. So in my eyes.. it's probably a stupid idea to try.

So yeah... they're there of their own volition... I'd never presume to tell them to move. If they want to they will. They don't need me deciding it for them.

And trying to couch yet another order to disperse.. disguised as some mission of mercy... after what has already transpired? .. it's a little insulting. I expect it will also be ignored.

After that who knows. The idea of protecting them from themselves still has me chuckling though... yet another velvet glove concealing an iron fist.

Slainte


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 09:47 AM by pteridine
Originally posted by LuchFrawg420
First of #ing all the government and every other authoritative institution needs to realize that we own them. Without everyday people they have #in squaaaat. They need to do whatever the # we want even if it ends up being the wrong choice. WE DECIDE THEY DO NOT TELL US WHAT THE HELL IS GOOD FOR US. DO you get that?! A government isn't # if there is no one to govern. They need to start negotiating and compromising right away because this is going to turn into physical class warfare. If they gov wants to avoid deaths and violent protests then they need to start sitting down with the leaders of these OWS movements and crunch some plans out before it goes to hell.


We elect representatives to negotiate. They are called Congressmen and Senators. Do you get that? There are no leaders of the OWS movements but I'm sure many will claim to be so. The entire movement has only vague goals and because of its diffuse nature will result in little being done that will satisfy more than a fraction of the mob. They should start petitions for getting their demands on the ballots. They should actively campaign against representatives who allow the big banks to steal from the people. There is nothing so frightening to a sitting politician than the prospect of being unelected.

What do you want from the government? Free something? Less taxes and more services?

You should probably ask for a free course in persuasive writing and vocabulary building. Take anger management first.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 09:52 AM by Phantom28804
reply to post by Resinveins


Honestly I have nothing more to say to you or anyone else on this forum. You are a bunch of idealistic fools. Ironically you remind me a bit of the way Marx started out. Taking his ideaology of Socialism to show the world a better place, and then it became warped and skewed by the likes of Lenin and Stalin and wow what a wonderful thing Socialism became then huh?

There is nothing more frightening then Ignorance in action.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 09:55 AM by Jason88
Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by dc4lifeskater


People need to stop comparing OWS to the founders that is seriously pathetic, Real men with a real cause not recycled failed left wing ideology.


The jigs up on your stance. You don't like the left and will take any pot shot you can if it involves anything remotely involved with left-leaning messaging. Why mask that you care about people, when in fact you're just mad that democrat messages ring true to most Americans. How's your republican candidates looking these days - are they getting crazy enough for you...yet?

OWS has been anti-party since day one but many of its messages could be construed as democrat leaning... as has been pointed out the system is failing under a two party system.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 09:59 AM by SeekerofTruth101
Originally posted by pteridine

We elect representatives to negotiate. They are called Congressmen and Senators. Do you get that? There are no leaders of the OWS movements but I'm sure many will claim to be so. The entire movement has only vague goals and because of its diffuse nature will result in little being done that will satisfy more than a fraction of the mob. They should start petitions for getting their demands on the ballots. They should actively campaign against representatives who allow the big banks to steal from the people. There is nothing so frightening to a sitting politician than the prospect of being unelected.

What do you want from the government? Free something? Less taxes and more services?

You should probably ask for a free course in persuasive writing and vocabulary building. Take anger management first.


OWS has no single leader, but EVERYONE there is a leader unto himself/herself, a free human and citizen, making that stand braving cold and other elements, out of convictions and conscience.

That there are such citizens making that stand under such circumstances TELLS the authorities that there IS something wrong. And the authorites are not stupid, nor fools. They are humans too, with conscience, and dont get elected by being village idiots.

The authorities know full well what it is all about, and needs no mickey mouse song and dance routines played by both sides. Best they - the authorities, take heed, stop initiating violence, stop ignoring and pretending they know nothing and so do nothing except to further curtail citizens' rights with violence, or there will only be hell to pay later.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:05 AM by Resinveins
reply to post by Phantom28804


You should discuss that with Lincoln's slaves... you know... in imagination land. Or did you graduate from KKK university? The South lost that war... figured I'd let you know as you have some peculiar fantasies.

But others are fools. Riiiiiiight.

Derp

slainte


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:15 AM by pteridine
Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by Resinveins

What do you think is going to happen the first time the police see the protestors are armed with weapons and shields? They will up the ante and break out actual firearms.

So what would you do if you were mayor of any city in the north, say Portland? Would you let the protestors freeze to death in the parks, or would you break the encampments up?


If I was the mayor I would allow all adults to remain in the park. Underage children would have to leave. If Occupycicles were the result of not using the city shelters, that would be a harsh example of Darwinism but it would provide solid martyrs for the cause...at least until spring.
Fortunately, there are more compassionate folks in charge who do not believe that people are responsible for their own actions and will save them in spite of themselves.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:18 AM by Phantom28804
reply to post by Resinveins


I know I said I was done, but I had to add a few things just for the record.

Lincoln may not have owned slaves himself that is something I learned but from what I read just now that may not be true, so I concede on that. However, the remainder of my argument is true whether you like to admit it or not.

At the beginning of the war, Lincoln prohibited his generals from freeing slaves even in captured territories. On August 30, 1861, Major General John C. Frémont, the commander of the Union Army in St. Louis, proclaimed that all slaves owned by Confederates in Missouri were free. Lincoln opposed allowing military leaders take executive actions that were not authorized by the government, and realized that such actions could induce slaveowners in border states to oppose the Union or even start supporting the enemy. Lincoln demanded Frémont modify his order and free only slaves owned by Missourians actively working for the South. When Frémont refused, he was replaced by the conservative General Henry Wager Halleck.


Lincoln made it clear that the North was fighting the war to preserve the Union. On August 22, 1862, just a few weeks before signing the Proclamation and after he had already discussed a draft of it with his cabinet in July, he wrote a letter in response to an editorial by Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune which had urged complete abolition:


I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.


Source

And please continue with your childish behavior. It only proves that the mentality of OWS and their supporters.
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edit on 11/12/2011 by Phantom28804 because: (no reason given)
edit on 11/12/2011 by Phantom28804 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:18 AM by Screwed
It doesn't take a whole lot of reading thru threads like these to realize very quickly just WHY we are in the mess we are in, in this country.

Many people are still so willfully ignorant and will defend the system no matter how badly it abuses them.
Or worse yet, "If it hasn't abused ME then it hasn't abused ANYONE"!

What a terrifically childlike and self centered thing to suggest.

There is really no point in wasting your time arguing with people with such mentalities.
You ARE NOT going to make them see what they are trying so desperately not to see.
What you have accepted and come to terms with is something they are still avoiding and they are willing
to do whatever it takes to keep their bubble from popping. It is not up to you or me or anyone else to pop that bubble. It WILL pop.
It will pop on its own eventually.
You aren't going to do it yourself on an internet forum.

It will pop for most the very day they get the everloving DOG # beat the F*** out of them by one of the pigs wearing badges that are abusing everyone else.
Sadly, for some, it won't even pop then. This is the mentality we are dealing with in this thread.

A very stockholmesque type of syndrome which is so strong that any attempt to free those who
suffer from it is met with hostility,violence, and anger.

Some people will defend the system until their dying breath.

In the end you will be left with three factions or groups if you will.

The oppressors. (cops,military,mercenaries,blackwater,etc.)
The oppressed. (neo 96, people who defend and protect the system no matter how bad things get, most of the social retards that occupy this country,etc.)

then you'll have US!
The ones who took a stand.
The ones who were tired of being abused.
The ones who stopped defending the system which abused them.
The ones who weren't afraid to make a stand.
The ones who tried to make a difference.
The dead.

You can live like a slave if you wish.
I for one refuse to live in this coming NWO.
One way or another, I WILL NOT live like this!!

edit on 12-11-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:21 AM by Echtelion
reply to post by Rockpuck


You indeed gotta be a Freemason for harboring such antisocial, despotic views of popular movements. Why am I surprised...

And perhaps you could tell us more about the rampant paedophilia and abduction of youngsters in your little elite club, just as their well-spread habits of taking over municipal power on the West Coast and forcefully passing their own corporate agenda, while benefiting from police brutality, and "discretionary" measures?

State-backed crooks like your cronies indeed deserve a war, a civil war. A bit like in the good ol' days. And I wonder... when your goons will be overwhelmed by vengeance coming from the masses, what the flimsy, twisted bureaucrats will do, flee to another country, as cowards always do, or be ACCOUNTABLE for your opinions and decisions?

And btw, the last time I checked to possess firearms was a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT in the US. Self-defense is also an undeniable right, unless you believe the "self" should now be a property of the corporate government. Perhaps you'd feel more at peace living in Peru, or Cambodia, or something...

"We are legion"
and you are so few...
edit on 12/11/11 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:23 AM by Resinveins
reply to post by pteridine


Good luck with that is all I have to say. Making the offer of shelter is a kind gesture... trying to force people though... have fun with that.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:27 AM by pteridine
Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Originally posted by pteridine

We elect representatives to negotiate. They are called Congressmen and Senators. Do you get that? There are no leaders of the OWS movements but I'm sure many will claim to be so. The entire movement has only vague goals and because of its diffuse nature will result in little being done that will satisfy more than a fraction of the mob. They should start petitions for getting their demands on the ballots. They should actively campaign against representatives who allow the big banks to steal from the people. There is nothing so frightening to a sitting politician than the prospect of being unelected.

What do you want from the government? Free something? Less taxes and more services?

You should probably ask for a free course in persuasive writing and vocabulary building. Take anger management first.


OWS has no single leader, but EVERYONE there is a leader unto himself/herself, a free human and citizen, making that stand braving cold and other elements, out of convictions and conscience.

That there are such citizens making that stand under such circumstances TELLS the authorities that there IS something wrong. And the authorites are not stupid, nor fools. They are humans too, with conscience, and dont get elected by being village idiots.

The authorities know full well what it is all about, and needs no mickey mouse song and dance routines played by both sides. Best they - the authorities, take heed, stop initiating violence, stop ignoring and pretending they know nothing and so do nothing except to further curtail citizens' rights with violence, or there will only be hell to pay later.


So, everyone is a leader and there are no followers. That should make for a nice unified movement with clearly stated goals and objectives, sure to succeed. After all of this, the authorities now know "there IS something wrong." According to your concept of all leaders, there are many things wrong with many wants and needs and each leader is ready to negotiate for his/her wants and needs.
What do you think OWS wants and what should be done to satisfy those leaders?

Citizens' rights haven't been curtailed except for those citizens wishing to use their public spaces that have now been occupied by others. Take turns or you'll all have to stay in after school.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:30 AM by pteridine
Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by pteridine


Good luck with that is all I have to say. Making the offer of shelter is a kind gesture... trying to force people though... have fun with that.


I didn't say force people to go to shelters. I said the underaged would have to go but the adults could freeze, in place, if they wanted to stay. No whining; they are adults who are responsible for their own actions.


reply posted on 12-11-2011 @ 10:36 AM by purplemer
reply to post by Rockpuck




As much as I'd love to see OWS gone just for the sheer fact of how much it costs the city (nearly $400k in overtime bills alone) I have to say.. I respect their ability to stand up to the police.


Really that is short sighted considering the banks they are protesting against have cost the tax payer hundred of billions....
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