a tree is bad now? i thought there good last time i checked.. anyways giving presents to your kids and family and having a good smelling green tree in the cold winter when everything is dead outside in your house is bad, just how girls can eat cucumbers or use them in a bad way..

Yikes, I wonder if my Festivus pole has any dark secrets...

I can't wait for the Feats of Strength...maybe I will finally edge out my wife this year.

Thought I'd provide a balance to the whole "Keep your filthy Oriental Mystery Cult paws off our wholesome Western European Pagan traditions!" thing that appears to have cropped up on this thread.

From the Golden Bough:

From an examination of the Teutonic words for “temple” Grimm has made it probable that amongst the Germans the oldest sanctuaries were natural woods. However that may be, tree-worship is well attested for all the great European families of the Aryan stock. Amongst the Celts the oak-worship of the Druids is familiar to every one, and their old word for sanctuary seems to be identical in origin and meaning with the Latin nemus, a grove or woodland glade, which still survives in the name of Nemi. Sacred groves were common among the ancient Germans, and tree-worship is hardly extinct amongst their descendants at the present day. How serious that worship was in former times may be gathered from the ferocious penalty appointed by the old German laws for such as dared to peel the bark of a standing tree. The culprit’s navel was to be cut out and nailed to the part of the tree which he had peeled, and he was to be driven round and round the tree till all his guts were wound about its trunk. The intention of the punishment clearly was to replace the dead bark by a living substitute taken from the culprit; it was a life for a life, the life of a man for the life of a tree. 2

So, maybe there are worse things than thinking a tree looks a lot like a giant peen.

Clearly there's a lot of muddlement over who introduced or adopted or altered the decorative evergreen. My guess is that the tradition is drawn from both Eastern and Western ancient faiths. Little bit of Tannenbaum, little bit of Tammuz.

Bumpity bump. And a Merry Christmas as well.

Maybe in some peoples houses it is a Pagan Obelisk.....but...errrmmm....in my house it is a tree!

It's a Christmas tree because the decorator intended it to be.

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Oh my, I was wondering if the misogyny thread where mystery school appropriates to itself all of natures trees with its penile fixation, would pop up again. I've shared the insanity and ego mania of this idea with a few people.

Trees are nature, they're beautiful and belong to everyone and caretake all creatures great and small. They're like cathedrals built of light.

Anything else is being insane membrane.

And christmas trees are wonderful gifts in winter, to children and family. The intent of them is as our hearts dictate.

1- I agree that the tree is probably more likely symbolic of the "world tree" than a phallic symbol. Although it may have heavy notions of "fertility" tied in there, which doesn't put it far off from an obelisk in ultimate symbolic value (if you ignore the world tree part)


2-

Originally posted by Nkinga
I love how people always assume that Christians are so ignorant. Most christians actually are very aware that the Christmas tree originally had nothing what so ever to do with Jesus. After all....we do read the NT, nope..no mention of Christmas trees there. What we know is that back during the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church

I don't entirely agree with your assessment. You are correct that a lot of christians do have a knowledge and understanding of this stuff. Especially the highly-literate ones who take their religion very seriously. On the other hand, I've known some christians who would flip out if their kid had a Harry Potter book, because that is evil pagan witchcraft, but putting up a christmas tree, or celebrating the resurrection of christ during the Festival of Ishtar is perfectly kosher. That, to me, would indicate a possible lack of symbological understanding. Either that or a ridiculous inconsistency due to societal norms and the brainwashing of religious propaganda.

i really dont see why it matters what its origins are.

Of course not, why bother with reality if it may conflict with your own beliefs?

Well the tree of life is actually DNA and the early folk were advanced.

Sure it is. But just remember to spend your money on stuff that also has nothing to do with this time of year.

Really would like to know just how big that one is in the picture under the White house Christmas tree. It has what looks like a scorpion at the base. Well the pincher parts anyhow.

nonsense

pure BS

the tree is an extension of an winter solstice tradition of bringing in wreaths to keep them alive for the winter

Don't forget that the Germanic tribes were never as sexually hung up as the Abrahamic.

To them a tree was a spiritual symbol.

They didn't see giant phallic symbols everywhere.

Would it satisfy Christian and Pagan
beliefs for the Evergreen to be an "idol"
(tsk tsk Christians) of Light?

A promise of a returning Sun even though
now at "Chrisma Solstice", the Sun is at its weakest.
(for us Northern Hemisphereans)

Some of you on here talk of Pagans like they are scum or something. What is up with that? I have many Native American friends that are Pagan. What's the problem? It's their faith. Also, Eskimos, Polynesians, Australians, Canadians, etc. Some believe in more than one god. Is that so hard to take? What does it have to do with anyone that believes in something else?

It's funny. Christians came over to America to "tame the savages" which meant to kill them off if they wouldn't convert. Christians killed off 90% of the native people in America. Christopher Columbus and his crew raped native women and killed women, children and men for sport. Then the rest of the savage tamers came over and continued the same. Who were the savages? And Columbus Day is still celebrated in the US. How do you think the Native Americans feel on that day?

The Native people respected the earth and everything on it. They killed only what they needed and used every bit of the animals for tools, clothing, shelter, etc. The people from Europe that came over did horrendous things to human beings in the name of progress. Killed all the buffalo for their fur out of greed and left the carcasses to rot in the sun. The native people were dumbfounded. The same was done in Australia and many other parts of the world.

It disgusts me to hear the way some of you discuss Pagans. Many of you haven't a clue what you are talking about or who you are talking about!

As far as I am concerned, all Christians are Pagans as you all believe in at least 2 gods: Jesus and God. Some believe in a third (that whole trinity thing)...

My last post was intended for a different thread (I was reading two at once). Please ignore it as it does not fit here at all. I have enjoyed this thread as it has been one of the few on religion where there really was no fighting back and forth about religion. I am trying to get the people in charge to remove the post. I wish I had noticed within the 4 hours so I could just delete it myself.

Rookie error...sorry..