It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by popsmayhem
It is all about intent.
If people are using the tree as a pagan obelisk
then it is a pagan obelisk, if they are using it as a tree
then it is a tree..
You can use anything for good or bad..
Originally posted by spacedoubt
It's greenery, in the dead of winter.
Holly, Fir Trees, and all the other trees of coniferous glory.
And they smell good, when you're all cooped up together in the cold of winter.
I say there were many independent reasons for putting up a tree and decorating it.
It's a symbol of rebirth, one way or another. Just when you thought it was going to get darker and darker each day.
Winter begins. And the process reverses.
Spoken from a Northern Hemisphere prospective, of course.
Originally posted by Frater210
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
Oh, I forgot to ask and this has been bothering me all day...
Please tell me you did not stuff your cat.
Thanks in advance.
Originally posted by strafgod
Lol im enjoying your misery with the typos.
To me a christmas tree is just something to put presents under.
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
Some of you know about this, many don't. Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate this tradition. How many other ancient pagan traditions are we unwittingly carrying out. And why? If we trace these traditions back to their origins, as has been done repeatedly in the scholarly arena, we see that today's Christian holidays are simply an usurpation of older rites and ceremonies of worship dedicated to more primal (and pure?) observations of nature and It's glory.
edit on 11/11/2011 by this_is_who_we_are because: typos
Originally posted by Frater210
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
I appreciate your zeal but I am left once again asking myself why certain types of folks feel the need to inform us of this type of stuff every year.
Why? Why did you feel the need to inform us of this? I am honestly interested.
All of this type of information concerning Christmas trees and Santa Claus and the Cult of Sol Invictus has been available on the web for years for anyone interested in seeking it out.
Every year since Lincoln, Baigent and Leigh published Holy Blood Holy Grail we have had to endure this yearly history update as a regular feature of Christmas.
And you know what? It's still a Christmas tree.
Thanks for showing up right on time with the usual devisive Holiday Treat.
Good job, OP.
How many other ancient pagan traditions are we unwittingly carrying out. And why?
All you have to do is a cursory study of the Ancient Greeks and Romans to see that we haven't changed a bit. The real argument is which are we? The Greeks or the Romans. I am going with Romans.
This whole discussion is seriously old hat circa 1994.
edit on 11-11-2011 by Frater210 because: whatev..
Originally posted by manna2
here is where your ideals break down from following thoughts through.
If it was not for the tree mkt every year there would not be a need to plant tree farms and the majority of those trees would have never lived at all. So if I was to be sensationalizing also I would have to wonder what you have against trees that you would not want them to be planted and given life to serve your personal ideals. Interesting huh? well, for the record, I serve Yah and I don't do the tree thing. It seems to me as idolitry.
Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
reply to post by Frater210
Some people have not been exposed to this information, and will find it interesting.
Originally posted by Balkan
Reminded me of this great article Joe Rogan wrote about the origin of Santa Claus. A must read!
Santa Claus Was A Mushroom
Originally posted by Frater210
Whoever the tree belonged to previously it now belongs to Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by Northwarden
Originally posted by manna2
here is where your ideals break down from following thoughts through.
If it was not for the tree mkt every year there would not be a need to plant tree farms and the majority of those trees would have never lived at all. So if I was to be sensationalizing also I would have to wonder what you have against trees that you would not want them to be planted and given life to serve your personal ideals. Interesting huh? well, for the record, I serve Yah and I don't do the tree thing. It seems to me as idolitry.
I don't need to see it that way, the ebb and flow of an industry that raises life just to take life in the end. This isn't for food, clothing, or shelter - the three basics which society is kind to provide for each other. It's for the sake of a tradition, in which many are desensitized to the fact that it claims a young life in the process. I'm not a fan of seeing veal or mutton on menus either, nor "live bait vending machines" outside gas stations, or lobsters in crowded tanks in the supermarkets. It all echos of washed-out humanity, replaced by some ungodly convenience that falls short of ethical treatment to the other beings on this planet which we, in all our supposedly enlightened ways, should be caretakers of. Instead look at what we swallow. The idea doesn't hit me as a good one, in fact it would feel like being hit by a bus, to endorse it.
It's said that trees communicate by ultrasound; I wonder if there's truth to that? So much we don't understand ...
reply to post by Unity_99
Incredible and inspiring posts as usual, my friend. I'm glad I subscribe to these threads; I'll look back just to reread those someday in months to come