Can Ghosts be proven through Einstiens laws and science?

reply to post by Gridrebel
But how does 'something unexplainable' turn into proof of the existence of a soul?

reply to post by Balkan


From the OP:

"Einstein proved that all the energy of the universe is constant and that it can neither be created nor destroyed. ... So what happens to that energy when we die? If it cannot be destroyed, it must then, according to Dr. Einstein, be transformed into another form of energy. What is that new energy? ... Could we call that new creation a ghost?"

It's proven (an existance of "something") by basic principles. Unexplainable because we don't know what this measurement is comprised of yet. That's exactly WHY we need Einstein's theories to come to a conclusive definable answer.

Take Hydrogen for example. Odorless, invisible, almost weightless. Yet it's one of the core elements of our universe. We haven't always known of it's existence. It takes a lot of science to discover and prove things. This just hasn't received the attention it should so that theories can be applied, tested and proven.

Originally posted by mandroids
Glad you agree! what did you think of Tart's opinions?

I agree with a lot of what he had to say. The "big 5" are well documented phenomenon and there is a great deal of compelling lab work to support their existance. I think he makes a good case for using science to examine the spiritual nature of humanity and our spiritual beliefs.

Are you familiar with his TASTE website. It's closed to new submissions, but it contains a number of anomalous experiences that were all submitted by scientists. I think Tart wanted to show that scientists are people too, and they have these unusual experiences just like everyone else.

www.issc-taste.org...

reply to post by OnceReturned


Though computers and other electronic devices do possess electrical and electromagnetic energy they don't possess life energy.

The fundamental difference is that computers and cell phones are inanimate machines and are incapable of procreation or the creation of life in general.

We cannot take two laptop computers power them both on and plugging one into the other and end up with another new laptop the next day/week/month !

This is because they are inanimate machines and are incapable of creating life forms OR ghosts for that matter simply because they themselves don't possess the fundamentals of life or living energy themselves.

And as to why we all have two parents who transfer their life energy to us in order to propagate our species.


Peace

reply to post by Gridrebel
Can you show me where Dr. Mertens and Dr. Fisher published their findings for review? I've scoured the internet and the only thing I can find is the same vague article posted over and over again on Noetic/Christian science sites. . This was a Noetic Science (!) experiment that was first published in the tabloid World Weekly News in 1988. This story appeared in the same issue as a story headlined, “Painting of Elvis weeps real tears”, and “Psychic makes river run backwards”.

Sorry, but I'm calling BS on the inescapable conclusion that this is proof of the existence of the soul.

reply to post by Balkan


If one looks at science a hypothesis is proven or disproven by the use of "scientific" evidence.

Scientific in that the evidence is acquired by proven scientific methods in measurement of weight being one of them.

Yes it doesn't necessarily prove the existence of the soul but it does prove that something has left the body soon after death based upon the weight of the body before this event and as well as postpartum.

Now for a further stretch on only needs to look at the commonality of those whom have actually died and returned to our world to tell about it.

The overwhelmingly vast majority all of these individuals describe seeing their now dead physical body as well as recognizing their surroundings as well as those attempting to revive them and what they had said.

This could be construed as evidence that they are existing and are fully cognizant outside of the now dead physical body.

I recommend viewing this cable TV program "I Survived....Beyond and Back" exemplifies this phenomenon of the existence of the separation of the physical body from that of the spiritual body.





Peace



www.biography.com...

Originally posted by nh_ee
Yes it doesn't necessarily prove the existence of the soul but it does prove that something has left the body soon after death based upon the weight of the body before this event and as well as postpartum.

Look into 'Weight of the Soul' 'research' that has been conducted so far, then tell me what you think. The article posted is this thread is hogwash, and the only other researcher who conducted 'soul weight' experiments is Duncan MacDougall.

His results have never been reproduced, and are generally regarded either as meaningless or considered to have had little if any scientific merit.

Duncan MacDougall

As far as I Survived goes, I record them all on DVR, and have watched every season. No idea what that has to do with this thread and scientific proof of ghosts, but interesting and entertaining nonetheless.

Originally posted by Balkan

Originally posted by nh_ee
Yes it doesn't necessarily prove the existence of the soul but it does prove that something has left the body soon after death based upon the weight of the body before this event and as well as postpartum.

Look into 'Weight of the Soul' 'research' that has been conducted so far, then tell me what you think. The article posted is this thread is hogwash, and the only other researcher who conducted 'soul weight' experiments is Duncan MacDougall.

His results have never been reproduced, and are generally regarded either as meaningless or considered to have had little if any scientific merit.

Duncan MacDougall

As far as I Survived goes, I record them all on DVR, and have watched every season. No idea what that has to do with this thread and scientific proof of ghosts, but interesting and entertaining nonetheless.

edit on 12-11-2011 by Balkan because: (no reason given)

Little if any scientific merit

But of little scientific merit to whom ?

IT is a hypothesis but it is as all research begins....as simply a theory which can be proven to be either true or false.

But one thing that we do know on this particular topic of what occurs when we do die by referencing the Clinical Definition of Death....

in that when we flatline all brain activity ceases. when we die meaning the electrical energy as in brainwaves found in our body no longer exists while we are deceased ....

Which is scienfitically measurable AND accepted as medical fact.

Which seques with the video....as to where does this energy go after we are dead ?

If according to Einstein it cannot be destroyed ... ?

As far as I Survived goes, I record them all on DVR, and have watched every season. No idea what that has to do with this thread and scientific proof of ghosts, but interesting and entertaining nonetheless.

There exists overwhelming evidence as in the consistency of accounts pointing to the near/ exact same experience.

Where The individual accounts convey the same experiences after having flatlined and died as a result of traumatic circumstances.

1.) Feeling themselves die...

2.) Followed by their leaving their body and seeing their body from above. As well as their surroundings.

This being the key point in the entire program as well as the evidence as to the possibility of explaining the existence of ghosts as well as disproving that our energy merely evaporates into the vastness of the atmosphere when we die.

Which is the relevance to the topic and as well as to the theme of this thread.



Peace


This 16 year old kid has a fatal heart attack while at school .... and watches himself being resuscitated.

Another example of scientific evidence of the paranormal existing is EVP or Electronic Voice Phenomenon.

This is a case where we have an actual scientifically recorded sample of radio frequency energy of an audible waveform which in many cases is in direct answer to a question such as "what is your name".

There exist many examples of the names later being researched and having historical relevance to the location in which the EVP was originally recorded.




Peace

Einstein was dealing primarily with electromagnetic field properties, as explored by folks like James Clerk Maxwell, and those after him. Because EM fields tend to interact well with ordinary things in our regular world like metal and wire, they're a lot easier to work with than other potential fields that don't have such a direct interaction. So it's easy to forget that there could be all kinds of other fields out there that we haven't yet even discovered (or properly defined), because they're not as easy to detect and measure.

There's a tendency to think that ghosts have a significant electromagnetic component to them, but that may or may not be true. It's certainly not consistent, or we'd be able to conjure up ghosts and spirits whenever we wanted to with specialized electrical machines. Thomas Edison tried and failed, and he was a pretty smart guy.

It may be that the potentially multi-dimensional, non-temporally linear fields that would allow for something like the existence of a coherent personality or time loop act in similar ways to EM fields, but we really don't know enough about these hypothetical fields to be sure. So Einstein's work might not be directly applicable.

I really think that this has a lot to do with "ghosts" ....it's fascinating subject. This guy has a series on PBS right now called "The fabric of space" ......check it out if you can...it's awesome!



and I love this guy too....this is so intersting

I am having trouble using the quote feature, but you said, "Also, I was pondering the idea that perhaps ghosts are just a recording of a specific moment in time, perhaps a tragedy, a routine, or something of that nature. It would be interesting to hear what others have to say about this phenomena."

I am no expert, but I am learning...

I think the term for that is "imprint" in paranormal jargon. I have also heard something called "place time" or something similar like "time place". I am almost positive about the term imprint though. Thanks for bringing it up, because I was trying to remember what that was called where an energy is so powerful, that it takes up some sort of space in the present. What is interesting to consider is that perhaps those imprints are not from the past, but rather from the future. Many times it turns out that there is some sort of explanation from the past, whereas few have considered the possibility that imprints are manifested from the future, or perhaps even the present, depending on the situation.

Originally posted by storm2012
I starred at her, and than BAM she turns her face right on me, her eyes were pointed towards me (yellowish color), I ran as fast as i can and told my mom. Next day everyone confirmed that's the spirit of the woman, who was buried alive by her husband.

I have been looking for people who witnessed manifestations of apparitions with orange or red eyes. I have not heard of the yellow color testified yet, this is a first. Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
I understand the intuitive appeal of this argument to people who want a scientific explanation for ghosts, the problem is that if it's true of humans, wouldn't it be true of anything that stores and uses energy? My laptop has energy, but if I hit it with a hammer it breaks and stops working. It doesn't make a ghost of a laptop and it doesn't violate conservation of energy, it just renders the energy unusable in its current form. I could take the battery out and put it in another device, and the energy could be recovered. Likewise, if a person dies and their body decomposes, that process consists of bacteria and insects consuming the energy left over in the human. If the law of conservation of energy necessitates that ghosts be created when a person dies, it would also necessitate that ghosts be created whenever anything that stores and uses energy stops working. Since no one wants to commit to believing in the ghosts of cell phones or calculators, the intuitive appeal of the argument in question ought to quickly fade.

That is interesting! Sometimes I think my computer is possessed! LOL!

In all seriousness though, as it pertains to inanimate objects, or those things with no soul, I have had actual physical manifestations of objects appear in certain areas of an apartment I lived in one time. The main things that liked to manifest were corks and guitar pics. Granted, things would end up missing as well. But usually if I asked to have it back, it was shown to me right away as long as I asked nicely.

Not so lucky with asking the computers to act nicely though! LOL!

Edit: I forgot to mention that there was an apparition (tall man in white suit with white hat that had an extremely large brim, like a sombraro) there which was witnessed at the same time by myself and my boyfriend. It was sometime in the early 1990's. We both knew the place was haunted without a doubt. For some reason though, we were not afraid. We were just very confused about the sudden appearance of corks and guitar pics, along with coming home to the gas stove burner being on, or the water running.

I stopped by about 10 years later and asked the new tenants if they noticed anything strange in the apartment. They were fairly new, but they said the only thing they noticed that was out of the ordinary was that one of their Pink Floyd albums disappeared.

Electrons know when you are watching them, and react accordingly. This was proven in the "Double Slit" experiment. I learned about this in my Intro to Chemistry class. VERY INTERESTING! Here is the link, it is called, "Dr. Quantum - Double Slit Experiment":

www.youtube.com...

I want that Einstein or somebody to tell me if this is truth