How much longer can the Non-Violent Approach be used?

reply to post by illuminatislave


What Peaceable assembly?

That is the biggest joke i have read.

yeah that EMT who got his leg broke how the hell did that ever happen prey tell?

reply to post by neo96


So, by your logic, a few that are calling for violence speak for the whole group?

And you were one of the people offended when folks were calling the TP a pack of racists? i see how this game works.

reply to post by illuminatislave


Yeah that's a fail the topic is OWS not me way to go to deflect.

Have better things to do here.

reply to post by neo96


Okay, so all OWSers are violent drug addicted hippies, and all TPers are racist white males.

There. We've generalized everyone. I hope this has accomplished something for you

Originally posted by illuminatislave
The only thing vague to me is your understanding of what is going on around you, but I'll leave you to your disingenuous stance on the matter.

I think that your hopes and wishes are making you see something that other people just don't see. Don't blame me for what I perceive. It just goes to show the utter failure the movement has had in communicating its message, peaceful or not.

reply to post by jude11


That is also a good point, I really do not like either, violence or non-violence but rather fixing the system by not feeding it. Boycott, one evil company at a time. I believe this may be the only way to fix the system we live in. But it would take changing ourselves and our wants to make it happen.

Originally posted by illuminatislave
So, by your logic, a few that are calling for violence speak for the whole group?

And just who does speak for the whole group? From what I can see, nobody. And when that kind of thing happens, guess who gets heard when they start calling for violence.

Forget what they're protesting for a second, damn!

It takes a little courage and discipline, but if you want something fixed, you're best bet is non-violence.

If you just want a regime change, possibly for the worst, then violence is surely the best bet.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


you are wrong
the whole purpose of non violent protest, Gandhi or mlk, is to show the oppressor for what it is, when it employs violence to shut down the protest

however all the poisons and drugs in the food, water and air have lobotomized all sense of outrage in most of the population, if people don't care protest is a failure. TCOTBIP have done a good job at that from what can be seen on this site.

same strategies used to discredit the tea party, but they refuse to see it blinded by mammon as they are

Have a look at this post I made concerning what made our forefathers take up arms.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We're not quite there yet in my opinion.

I've been watching with great interest from Northern Ireland how the ows protests have grown, spread and evolved. The idea, the principle is sound enough. The ordinary Joe on the street is fed up and is really using the only means available to him or her to try and make their voices heard. That is take to the streets. It does no good at all contacting your local politician what ever level that may be. No matter how well meaning that politician is, if it doesn't go along with the status quo, no matter what he/she tries to do, it's a loser.

Is this an American Spring? The simple answer is no. We'll all seen how protests have changed countries in North Africa. I've read countless posts on ATS suggesting more militant action. I've been reading the same posts for years now. Let's be realistic. It's not going to happen on a scale to change matters within the US. It's just not in the mindset of enough people to make that happen.

I read this thread tonight.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

No matter what your thoughts are regarding the protesters, who they were, what they were doing etc etc. This was pure police thuggery. Nothing more, nothing less. It took me back to Derry in 1968/69 when a group of students took a stand against the powers that be. I grant you the circumstances were totally different, the country far smaller yet the idea, the principle was the same on the ground, the ordinary Joe had had enough and was using the only mean he and she had available,. It was police against unarmed civilian, police baton against female with the full nod and wink of the powers that be at the time.

At this stage it was a civil rights protest. It had not evolved into what is known as The Troubles. We didn't have a simple thing as a vote....but I digress.

What this protest culminated in was what is known here as The Battle of The Bogside. The police decided they would take Derry back. They didn't. The people said no. The British Army landed on the streets as the police were outnumbered, exhausted and out fought.. Poor sods, they didn't know what they were getting themselves into. Full battle dress for what was a civil disturbance, fresh faced and no clue.

What I'm getting at is, it was in my opinion the last civil uprising in the western world. When people of all shades of opinion, be they poor or well off said enough is enough.

A policeman lunged with a baton and the people said no you won't.

Is this possible in America, enough to make a change?

I'm sorry but I say no it isn't.

Originally posted by JohnGeeTee


Is this an American Spring? The simple answer is no. We'll all seen how protests have changed countries in North Africa. I've read countless posts on ATS suggesting more militant action. I've been reading the same posts for years now. Let's be realistic. It's not going to happen on a scale to change matters within the US. It's just not in the mindset of enough people to make that happen.

Is this possible in America, enough to make a change?

I'm sorry but I say no it isn't.

I believe you're right on this. I just can't see enough Americans taking to the streets to make it happen. Too many have been taught from birth to follow the rules and just play along with whatever comes down the pike. Don't rattle the cage so to speak.

Peace

reply to post by Praetorius


I was waiting for someone to use gandhi as an example. Personally I think he was a tool used by the British to get the local groups to put down arms and take the oppressive colonialism right were they stand. I mean betwenn 1800-1830 India's textile industry was outproducing the Brits, after 1840 up to 1900 the PER CAPITA INCOME OF ALL INDIAN"S FELL 65%! This is why I feel that violence can be a tool used like all things good AND bad.

Poverty and underdevelopment is over-exploitation used on pacifists.


Imperialism is an equal opportunity exploiter.

Originally posted by jude11

Don't rattle the cage so to speak.

Peace

That's a lot of what i was refering to. So many people have been wired to, don't do anything that's wrong, don't rock the boat, do what you're told. It's nonsense.

People can make a change, I've seen it happen first hand. It depends on whether you have the balls or not really, That's what it comes down to.

reply to post by JohnGeeTee


But OWS as a whole doesn't represent the American people as a whole, that is the problem.

The majority aren't behind OWS, that should be painfully obvious by now... Even more so, IF this gets really violent.

Thousands out of millions isn't going to be a revolution, just a bloody mess.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by JohnGeeTee

 

But OWS as a whole doesn't represent the American people as a whole, that is the problem.

The majority aren't behind OWS, that should be painfully obvious by now... Even more so, IF this gets really violent.

Thousands out of millions isn't going to be a revolution, just a bloody mess.

And there lies the dilemma. Don't get me wrong. if your happy enough to be used and abused work away. No skin off my nose.

The world has to change. We're getting shafted here in Ireland. You're being shafted in the US. Where does it end?

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by JohnGeeTee

 

But OWS as a whole doesn't represent the American people as a whole, that is the problem.

The majority aren't behind OWS, that should be painfully obvious by now... Even more so, IF this gets really violent.

Thousands out of millions isn't going to be a revolution, just a bloody mess.

Many times in history, it has been the few that have stood and fought for the many...

And won.

It takes a few to show the masses that it's possible...then watch out when more and more people feel empowered.

Originally posted by JohnGeeTee
The world has to change.

On this we can agree... I think a solid vast majority would agree.

OWS direction for change is where it all falls apart for the majority.... Ask around outside of the "collective" and you'll see that the majority of people, don't want to go in that direction for change.

There is a LAWFUL NON VOILENT way to get a clear message to the those in charge however I've been teaching this and bringing forth the law and people would rather follow whimsical idea's to mention just a few, Freeman, Strawman, the capital C citizen ext... non of which has standings in court, oh they may work from time to time however there is but one lawful means to remove oneself from the defacto private law system all citizens are subject to as stated in the 14th Amendment.

A simple search for PAC on ATS will bring you to my thread with a bunch of pdf's outlining the real law the laws of the de jure ie republican form of governance, prior the passing of the 14th the Congress passed what is known as the 15 statues at large many may have heard of this but few understand it. In it's simplicity STATUS is everything, we volunteer to be subject to and a participant in the defacto law system this volunteer is why they can do these things and pass statues that only apply to USA citizens. So the question really is then how do we no longer volunteer to this political body and rejoin the common law system recognized by every court, every office all the way up to the President of the USA including the UN.

The answer is corrected status, the process has been perfected by PAC and takes about 90 days to complete and file the proper paperwork in the courts. With Status you will no long need permits ie permission to drive, pay taxes or even carry a concealed weapon you do have laws you need to follow those would be the ones that fall under the common law of custom and usage. No harm to property or others person or their property and do not interfere with another's rights then no law is broken.

This is a non violent way to tell them you no longer submit to the defacto system and when enough people correct status the defacto will simple disappear, lean the law not the hype and begin to truly be free.