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Joe Paterno fired as football coach at Penn State

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posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Onward State: Sandusky Scandal: National Media Misses The Mark
November 9, 2011 20:10:26

By Dan Vecellio

Quick. Don't think. Who is prime suspect number one in the scandal involving Penn State right now? If you were to read 95% of the stories put out by the national media since Sunday or gone on Twitter or (from stories I've heard) spoken with any of the national talking heads trudging through State College right now, they would tell you that the villain in this horrible, horrible incident is Joe Paterno.

Tell me, when was the last time you heard Jerry Sandusky's name? When was the last time you heard about the charges brought against athletic director Tim Curley and former VP of Business and Finance Gary Schultz? I'm fairly certain that these three men have been the ones charged with crimes in this on-going investigation.

Some of you may know me as the former sports editor at Onward State. I started writing my junior year and became fascinated with journalism. I found it exciting to go fact-finding. To be able to relate a story to the masses was an exhilarating feeling. But over the past five days, my love for the craft has dwindled. I realized a whole lot about the business of journalism after reading the stories of the New York Times, Washington Post and some of the most respected news blogs in the nation. And yes, I said BUSINESS of journalism. Because journalism has now gone past its roots. It is no longer about telling a story. It is making up the story that will sell the most papers, get the most pageviews, accrue the most Twitter followers and make the most money in the end. What will sell a story? Will a story about a no-name like Gary Schultz sell papers? Will a story about Tim Curley get an author noticed? Even a story on Graham Spanier, who has a bit more national prominence, won't bring in readership. Like I said, when was the last big story on the perpetrator, Jerry Sandusky, written?

You know what will sell, though? The downfall of an American icon. A man who has spent 60 years building the reputation of a football program, a university, a whole town doing the "legal minimum" but not his "moral duty" being pummeled both in writing and by cameras and microphones everywhere he goes. I can guarantee you, if Penn State was coached by some no-name, the stories churned out would be about the victims and the men who perpetrated these crimes.

I'm not here to defend what Joe Paterno did or did not do. That has been talked about in many other posts and in many other comment boards. But I hope to convey some of the things the media has lost sight of over the past week by dissecting different allegations they have brought up. Please follow along below.

1. "JOE PATERNO NEVER FOLLOWED UP ON THESE CHARGES" or "JOE PATERNO SENT THIS UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND AND WASHED HIS HANDS OF THE SITUATION"

This was the first of many "facts" that was made up by the national media. If you've read the Grand Jury testimony, I commend you. Now go read it again. Pick out the part where it says Joe never went back to Tim Curley or Gary Schultz to see what was happening in the process. It never says he did, but it sure as hell doesn't say he didn't either.

2. "JOE PATERNO KNEW ABOUT (OR HAD TO HAVE KNOWN ABOUT) THE '98 ALLEGATIONS AND STILL LET A CHILD RAPIST AROUND HIS TEAM"

Once again, go back to the testimony. Nowhere does it say that Joe knew about any allegations before 2002. In fact, one person I know sat in a class on Tuesday and listened to Patriot-News reporter Sara Garim, who has been the point person for all of the investigative stories dealing with this case, say that Joe testified he did not know about the 1998 allegations, going as far to say: "I think it's fair to say, as far as you could possibly say, that Joe Paterno didn't know about [the 1998 investigation]." If some real investigating had been done by the national media, they'd probably know that too.

3. "JOE PATERNO ENABLED A CHILD RAPIST"

Use your words better. I understand your need for emphasis to sell, but using the word enable makes it seem like Joe hand-picked the boys for Sandusky.
(continued in next post) . . .



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by butcherguy
 


So you know that Paterno thinks rape of a 10 year old boy is not repugnant.

Because why again?

Please show me where I said that. I believe that this is just an attempt to turn things around.
You have spoken at length about how Paterno is a scapegoat. I say he had a moral obligation to see that something was done about this PEDOPHILE, and he didn't take care of his obligation.

You say that you read that Paterno informed his superior and the police about the event involving McQueary.
I can find no reference Joe Paterno informing the police about that. I would appreciate it if you could cite a source for that, as it would put my mind at ease regarding Joe's actions.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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(continued from previous post) . . .

4. "JOE PATERNO IS TIM CURLEY'S/GRAHAM SPANIER'S BOSS" or "JOE PATERNO RUNS PENN STATE UNIVERSITY"

Many columnists have brought this point up in regards to Joe pushing Mike McQueary's information up the chain of command. Since Joe runs everything there, he is to blame. He is the head honcho. Find other columns these men and women have written. Look at their Twitter feeds over the past year. Look at them from the past week! They'll tell you that he doesn't even run his own football team anymore and hasn't for 15 years. For an 84-year old man to not be able to look over 85 players and a coaching staff, but yet control 44,000 students on the University Park campus, plus the administrators, plus the faculty, plus the staff and handle day-to-day operations of a university seems unimaginable to me. But you know, whatever argument works at the time, guys.

When Joe Paterno released his retirement statement Wednesday morning, he said that he would finish out the year coaching. A large majority of the people I follow on Twitter and TV commentators said it wasn't enough and were adamant about it. He needed to resign now or be fired by the Board of Trustees. A huge, HUGE backlash for a man who just wants to coach four or five more football games. Later on in the afternoon, Ben Jones of Black Shoes Diaries and StateCollege.com tweeted that he was told Jerry Sandusky was spotted working out in a gym with his wife this morning. The reaction? "Wow." "Geez." "Welp."

This story has become so twisted that negative emotion about a man coaching a football game exceeds that of an accused chlid molester walking the streets of the town where he committed his crimes by what it seems to be millions of percent. By focusing on the tear-down of the most notable figure involved in the case, people have become numb to the man who did the most damage and those who have been accused to covering up that damage.

Sensationalizing a story led to Joe Paterno being the first man to lose his job in this fiasco. And while I have no qualms about saying Joe had to step down after this mess blew up, when looking back at the facts, is he really the first man who should have gotten the axe?

Now, since the media has completed Objective One: Bring Down JoePa, I hope they do what I always believed journalists did: find the facts, dig through the sources and tell the people the real stories happening in State College.

Source



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by TheInterceptor
 


Did you read the whole grand jury report? Sandusky had access to the PSU sports complex at any time, even after retiring. Curley and Schultz(also in charge of campus police), never reported it to the poloce. The state also investigated Sandusky once< I think in 98' , think child welfare,another blunder. Seems like the State has some explaining to do.
Paterno took the correct action for the one time he was directly told about, seems like it was underplayed by Curley and Schultz being called "horseplay".

If that lie was the answer given to Paterno, how is he to blame again? The PSU program has a huge problem by allowing children to shower with adults on campus. Heck, back in High School, our coaches had there own separate showering area. That disturbs me more, that a school of this size does not have any policy in place.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 



Gary Schulz - As the senior vice president for finance and business — which gives him oversight of university police — Schultz, 62, has been charged with covering up abuse allegations.

Source


According to the Grand Jury report, Schultz was supposed to turn over the report to the police officers that he is responsible for, but failed to do so, because of the outcome of the reports in 2002 and 1998.

In essence, Paterno notified his superior (Curley), and the person responsible for the campus police (Schultz). It was on them to continue the process, but they failed to do so.


Where are the mob who should be hunting down the actual criminal (Sandusky)?

Where are the cries of outrage over the 1998 outcome, or the 2002 outcome?

Why are the headhunters not going after Curley, Schultz, or McQueary?

Why is there no implication of the state police, DA, and judge that waited three years (2008-2011) before even pursuing the matter?

Nope. Let's crucify the man who heard (NOT WITNESSED) an allegation, and followed proper protocol for the allegation.

That makes A LOT of sense.

edit on 11/10/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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At the end of the day, Joe Paterno, of ALL the people who could have done anything, could have done the MOST, but did the very LEAST he was required to do when it came to protecting children from getting raped.

That is why he deserves to get fired. Legally, he's clean, but morally and ethically he stepped on the line of being part of the problem and not part of the solution.

I think what everybody expected Joe Paterno to do was call the real Police (not campus Police) and FBI after the Campus authorities failed to prosecute/make arrests.

He legally could have been sued if he went public with it in a press conference or press interview, but if he had done it then politically the campus would no longer be allowed to cover it up or white wash it.


edit on 11/10/2011 by Cryptonomicon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
I think what everybody expected Joe Paterno to do was call the real Police (not campus Police) and FBI after the Campus authorities failed to prosecute/make arrests??


Seeing as how campus police are REAL officers, the FBI and Staties would claim it was not their jurisdiction, and to report it to the campus police.

This happens all the time (I know from experience) . . . even for something so simple as a minor traffic accident.
edit on 11/10/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
I think what everybody expected Joe Paterno to do was call the real Police (not campus Police) and FBI after the Campus authorities failed to prosecute/make arrests??


Seeing as how campus police are REAL officers, the FBI and Staties would claim it was not their jurisdiction, and to report it to the campus police.

Sure, but even so if he had at least done that and made a record of it, then it would have made him look like he did more to help the children.

Also, if after that attempt failed, he should have contacted the press (60 Minutes?) to expose the cover up.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Ray Gricar

Declared legally dead in July, Gricar was the Centre County district attorney from 1985 to 2005, when he disappeared. He chose not to prosecute Sandusky in 1998, after allegations of inappropriate contact with young boys surfaced. The decision helped to end a police investigation into the report.


Disappeared? This does not bode well for the defense..... or the University... or the local Police.... or the State....



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Cryptonomicon
I think what everybody expected Joe Paterno to do was call the real Police (not campus Police) and FBI after the Campus authorities failed to prosecute/make arrests??


Seeing as how campus police are REAL officers, the FBI and Staties would claim it was not their jurisdiction, and to report it to the campus police.

The FBI would have jurisdiction if they had reasonable suspicion to investigate if the "REAL officers" were criminally involved in covering up the scandal.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Cryptonomicon

Sure, but even so if he had at least done that and made a record of it, then it would have made him look like he did more to help the children.

Also, if after that attempt failed, he should have contacted the press (60 Minutes?) to expose the cover up.



Seeing how the 1998 and 2002 allegations were handeled, I am not so sure that would have been a good move.

He followed protocol, and that is all that is required of him.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Cryptonomicon
 


SUre, but that is jumping to a different topic completely.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:07 AM
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If in fact Joe Paterno did contact the police, and they did nothing about it, then the truth will come out.

I would say heads are going to roll on every level for obstruction of justice, if Joe contacted proper legal authorities, then Joe Paterno will have his good name restored.

I think this mess is going to go very very deep and many people will be charged, especially if Paterno did what he was suppose to.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by butcherguy
 


So you know that Paterno thinks rape of a 10 year old boy is not repugnant.

Because why again?

Please show me where I said that. I believe that this is just an attempt to turn things around.
You have spoken at length about how Paterno is a scapegoat. I say he had a moral obligation to see that something was done about this PEDOPHILE, and he didn't take care of his obligation.

You say that you read that Paterno informed his superior and the police about the event involving McQueary.
I can find no reference Joe Paterno informing the police about that. I would appreciate it if you could cite a source for that, as it would put my mind at ease regarding Joe's actions.


I agree, he absolutely had an obligation to see that this was stopped.
If I walked in on a grown man raping a child in the shower, I damn sure wouldn't wait to tell my superiors. I would find someway to put a stop to it right then and there by whatever means I feel necessary.

Come on people, it isn't like he saw him stealing pencils from the supply closet, he witnessed the rape of a young man who will never be the same.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Really dude?


The department provides 24-hour patrol services to the campus and University-owned properties year round. The University Police is governed by a state statute that gives our officers the same authority as municipal police officers.

Link



Most large colleges and universities set up full-fledged police departments on school grounds. These sworn officers have the same authority as any other members of the police—they carry weapons, make arrests, and enforce local, state, and federal laws.

. . .

Deny ignorance.


State law varies concernuing campous police, and it's been over 30 years since I was a campus security officer.
We had no detention facilities, no investigative arm, and no detectives.

Anything more pressing than a frat party is always handled by the local or state police.
Unless they have a MASSIVE budget at PSU, their campus cops rely on real police officers and detectives to investigate serious felonies. But I think you already knew this.
Back to reality with you.

PSU HAS SOME real cops mixed with student security to enforce the law on campus. But their website shows no investigative arm. Given that PSU is a land grant university, it is safe to assume that investigating crimes on campus would fall under the jurisdiction of the Pennsylvania State Police.
From their own website.
"No Investigative arm". They do not investigate rapes or felonies, they refer this to the "real police department".
This keeps the school from being liable, and having to foot very large legal bills stemming from crime enforcement and the following legal steps to convict a criminal in a court of law..

Most campus cops have not been to the police acadamy, are not cops, and are nothing more than lisc., sometimes armed, guards, with a class C or class D lisc
I know this because unlike the armchair experts here, I've actually worked the job.






It's sad how you think Joe is justified in keeping this horrible child abuse internal.


He did not keep it internal. He followed the law to a tee.


He deserves alot worse than he will get. He's a filthy excuse for a human being.


For what crime?





Failure to reprt a felony.
You do not have to be a witness. Any knowledge fo a Felony is to be reprted to the police, not your boss, and his private security firm that gets paid directly from the university.


Protect these perverts all you like, but it's obvious where the problem is.

PSU police had knowledge of this since 1998, and helped cover the scandal up.

Joe knew that telling the State Police would cost him his job at the very least.
He surmised telling his boss first, and letting the upper faculty direct Campus security would be the best thing for his own career.


He thought this would just go away and be handled internally..
I mean why wouldn't he? That's what happened in '98.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Cryptonomicon
 


SUre, but that is jumping to a different topic completely.

No it's not - it's about what Joe Paterno SHOULD have done, not what he "was required" to do. Had he done that one simple thing (call the FBI) then it would have given him the ethical high ground.

That being said, the SCHOOL should have done more too, and every single one of their Board of Trustees should be removed from their positions, and the US Board of Education should reassemble a new one for them.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Where are the mob who should be hunting down the actual criminal (Sandusky)?

Where are the cries of outrage over the 1998 outcome, or the 2002 outcome?

Why are the headhunters not going after Curley, Schultz, or McQueary?

Why is there no implication of the state police, DA, and judge that waited three years (2008-2011) before even pursuing the matter?



They're out there, and it's happening. This thread is primarily about Paterno. I think his firing was justifiable. And I think there's much more to come, with many others facing some fairly severe consequences. Some from the legal system, some not.

We're in the early stages of this being a breaking story. It'll be a minimum of months before it all shakes out. Anyone in any position of authority or oversight at Penn State should be quaking about now. And if anything, maybe that'll send a message that some things are way too reprehensible to tolerate regardless of what you have to legally do. Having an environment that tolerates that sort of abuse of children cannot be condoned.

Not by a school.

Not by a church.

Not by any entity.

That's why people are in oversight positions. If you don't know, you'd better damn well find out. Even if it isn't your fault, it's your responsibility. If it happens on your watch, and you don't take some immediate heroic measures to put a complete stop to it, you're gone. No excuses. Period.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
 





I agree, he absolutely had an obligation to see that this was stopped. If I walked in on a grown man raping a child in the shower, I damn sure wouldn't wait to tell my superiors. I would find someway to put a stop to it right then and there by whatever means I feel necessary.

A undergrad witnessed the rape.
Paterno witnessed nothing and was told of an allegation in which the local DA did not prosecute along with his superiors. A janitor witnessed an act and did not report it(none of the janitors did) for fear of reprisal.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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People can run this country into the ground and nobody says a word and just go about their daily lives as if all is well. But when a gd sports coach gets fired people hit the streets. That is flipping pathetic.

Now we see where peoples heads really are.

It is things like this that make me question my service to this country.
edit on 10-11-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by mugger
A undergrad witnessed the rape.


A 28 year old MAN who was a former PSU quarterback and on Paterno's staff, witnessed the rape.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




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