Joe Paterno fired as football coach at Penn State

reply to post by WarminIndy
I hate to say "GO BIG RED!", but if you are a Nebraska fan, and you paid to get there, and you paid for the tickets..... WEAR RED, WEAR IT PROUD! They should support their school!

I have been to Nebraska, the whole state is the Big Red Booster Club, that is all they have. I am not hoping for a Cornhusker win tomorrow, but don't let this scandal rob them of their chance to support their team.

reply to post by WarminIndy


I bet the game is canned all together, the students are acting like hooligans, it's sure to be a media circus and there's just too much potential for more bad press about Penn State.

The entire football program ought to be hanging their heads in shame...win as a team, lose as a team and take responsibility as a team. Other programs have been essentially shut down for less...cash gifts etc.

Most common punishments have been -
- Banned from giving scholarships to football players for a few years
- Banned from participating in bowl games for a few seasons
- Banned from TV for a few seasons

Biggest College Football Scandals & Consequneces

1991, former Auburn player Eric Ramsey dropped a bombshell on the sports world by alleging he was given money by an illegal booster and even some coaches -

Auburn was put on a two-year bowl ban, a one year TV ban and lost 14 scholarships over a four year period

USC’s Reggie Bush Saga, Bush and his family received illegal payments from two wanna-be agents who were dying to sign the future super star. Their tab? $300,000 -

USC had a two-year bowl ban and loses a whopping 30 scholarships over a three-year period

Alabama booster Logan Young paid High School coach $115,000 to get player to commit to the University -

The sanctions the Crimson Tide received in 2002: a two-year bowl ban, five-year probation and the loss of 21 scholarships over three years

SMU players allegedly received roughly $61,000 from a booster slush fund -

Wanting to make an example of the school, the NCAA came down harder than it’s ever come down before. The “death penalty” barred SMU from playing in 1987 and cancelled all their home games in 1988. Their TV and bowl ban was extended to 1989 and they lost 55 scholarships over four years.The results of the decision were crippling.

SMU didn’t field a team for two years and since the death penalty, the school has had just two winning football seasons.

So what should be the punishment be for a football program that did nothing when pre-teen boys were being raped at their facility and by one of their staff...and then covered it up?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I hate to say "GO BIG RED!", but if you are a Nebraska fan, and you paid to get there, and you paid for the tickets..... WEAR RED, WEAR IT PROUD! They should support their school!

I have been to Nebraska, the whole state is the Big Red Booster Club, that is all they have. I am not hoping for a Cornhusker win tomorrow, but don't let this scandal rob them of their chance to support their team.

I am from Ohio and pull for Ohio State. I currently live in Indiana. If this happened at Ohio State, this would be one Buckeye who would take every Brutus t-shirt and memorabilia and burned it. It's going to take a long time to fix this.

But on the other hand, these players did work hard to get where they are. They deserve the chance to play, but the game should have been moved to more neutral territory.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I bet the game is canned all together, the students are acting like hooligans, it's sure to be a media circus and there's just too much potential for more bad press about Penn State.

The entire football program ought to be hanging their heads in shame...win as a team, lose as a team and take responsibility as a team. Other programs have been essentially shut down for less...cash gifts etc.

Most common punishments have been -
- Banned from giving scholarships to football players for a few years
- Banned from participating in bowl games for a few seasons
- Banned from TV for a few seasons

Biggest College Football Scandals & Consequneces

1991, former Auburn player Eric Ramsey dropped a bombshell on the sports world by alleging he was given money by an illegal booster and even some coaches -

Auburn was put on a two-year bowl ban, a one year TV ban and lost 14 scholarships over a four year period

USC’s Reggie Bush Saga, Bush and his family received illegal payments from two wanna-be agents who were dying to sign the future super star. Their tab? $300,000 -

USC had a two-year bowl ban and loses a whopping 30 scholarships over a three-year period

Alabama booster Logan Young paid High School coach $115,000 to get player to commit to the University -

The sanctions the Crimson Tide received in 2002: a two-year bowl ban, five-year probation and the loss of 21 scholarships over three years

SMU players allegedly received roughly $61,000 from a booster slush fund -

Wanting to make an example of the school, the NCAA came down harder than it’s ever come down before. The “death penalty” barred SMU from playing in 1987 and cancelled all their home games in 1988. Their TV and bowl ban was extended to 1989 and they lost 55 scholarships over four years.The results of the decision were crippling.

SMU didn’t field a team for two years and since the death penalty, the school has had just two winning football seasons.

So what should be the punishment be for a football program that did nothing when pre-teen boys were being raped at their facility and by one of their staff...and then covered it up?

edit on 11/11/2011 by RedParrotHead because: typos abound!

edit on 11/11/2011 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)

Nothing will happen to the football program unless it's self imposed sanctions. As crazy as it sounds, no NCAA rules were violated therefore they have no jurisdiction in the matter, and they have stated as such.

reply to post by de Thor


Are you sure about that? "...this obviously is an unprecedented circumstance..."

Posted: Fri, Nov. 11, 2011

"Regarding the ongoing Penn State criminal investigation, the NCAA is actively monitoring developments and assessing appropriate steps moving forward," Emmert said in a statement. "The NCAA will defer in the immediate term to law enforcement officials since this situation involved alleged crimes. As the facts are established through the justice system, we will determine whether Association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly." - NCAA president Mark Emmert

If the NCAA looks at sanctioning Penn State, it appears it would include looking at NCAA Bylaw 2.4, on "principles of sportsmanship and ethical conduct," which calls for "intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants . . .. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program." This broad bylaw typically has been used to regulate behavior such as trash-talking during a game. It appears to be unprecedented to use the bylaw to penalize an institution over ethical conduct. But this obviously is an unprecedented circumstance that has unfolded in State College.

NCAA May Sancation Penn State

I am so completely appalled by this Penn State situation I can hardly keep my food down. When Mike McQuery saw Sandusky sodomizing a child in the shower he had a perfect opportunity to run in and save the child. Since this is not what he did I am completely at a loss to understand why he, too, has not been fired.
When witnesses see a murder, but do not report the murder, look out! They can expect the book to thrown at them and HARD. Any one of these individuals who had knowledge of these events but who chose not to call the police or to follow up after whatever reporting they did do should be fired and prosecuted. These poor kids have been ruined...permanently.

RUINED.

They must now walk among the rest of us for the next 70 or so years and we expect them to function with as much normalcy and poise as anyone else who has not been so egregiously damaged. God bless them all, they try.
To ruin a child MUST be at LEAST as heinous as killing someone since the ruined person now must survive the balance of their remaining lifetime with whatever deficits they now have socially and psychologically.How horribly cruel. Kids just have no clue how to deal with monstrous acts such as these. They are outside the realm of what any forming mind should ever have to contend with. Of course they don't know how to tell anyone.


Recidivism is so high among offenders the society truly needs to consider the perpetrators as unfixable.The urges within them are as natural and as intense as any sexual urge within any adult person. Think about that for a few minutes. It is not a reasonable thing to even suggest they can go through therapy to get past these urges.There are probably chemical and surgical things that can be done to help reduce the threat but not to remove it completely.

Look, I know I am just venting and I am not saying anything a zillion people have not already said or felt but when someone stands up to say this person or that person has led a moral life full of integrity, therefore we should cut them all kinds of slack... well, in the face of crimes against humanity like this, it just does not wash with me. These kids had every right to expect much, much better from the adults around them in whom they had placed total trust.Nothing can ever make them whole again. Nothing. The very best we can do is to make sure justice does not turn a blind eye any more and that we extend the victims every kindness, courtesy and privilege possible. They have had to fight the devil...all alone..as innocent children. No mom or dad within earshot to come rescue them from the death-grips of hell. Talk about an unfair fight. At the very least, the very least, next time we are standing in the midst of a child (or not) getting ruined then in the name of all these victims....do something and do it well...and quickly. Don't blink. Make sure that child is safely removed from harm immediately.

I am livid.



...times a thousand.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Daughter2

 

The law states that Curley or Schultz should have done all the legwork, which they did not.

From the grand jury presentment itself....

According to this, Sandusky took Victim 4 to the Alamo Bowl and the Outback Bowl while Penn State played. Those were games that Paterno officiated. He traveled to and from Penn State games with the team and Penn State Staff, coaches and families. Victim 4 stayed in the same motel as Paterno. He attended with Sandusky the pre-game banquets and sat at the COACHES TABLE, with Paterno.

And Schultz was head of the University Police. Sandusky took every one of these kids to the games Paterno coached, took them to practices Paterno was at, took them to banquets Paterno was at, took them to motels Paterno was at. Paterno personally saw every one of these victims, and even after he heard about Sandusky, he just does as little as he can by telling the very people who determined to say nothing at all.

This is from the grand jury presentment itself. Don't ask for the source, read it for yourself. The grand jury presentment goes on to say that after the mother of Victim 6 called the police, University Police Ronald Schreffler was told to close the investigation by Director Thomas Harmon, of the University police.

So now, Paterno makes a call to the university police, of a closed case...and does nothing more. He knew Sandusky was taking kids onto the campus, was with them in the locker and shower room. Seems to me he should have asked more questions.

So, if an old lady who likes young boys is a cougar, than an old man who likes young boys is a nittany lion??

reply to post by Malkuth


about Mike McQuery...

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary will miss Saturday's game against Nebraska after the school said he received "multiple threats."

I think he's being protected because he was in fact the "whistler blower." Also reports have been pretty vague as to what his immediate reaction actually was. Possible he did stop the rape and at least save the kid that night. Someone eventually went to the police and got the investigation started, I bet it was him.

Originally posted by bo12au
So, if an old lady who likes young boys is a cougar, than an old man who likes young boys is a nittany lion??

Too soon...but I will keep that for future reference

Originally posted by bo12au
So, if an old lady who likes young boys is a cougar, than an old man who likes young boys is a nittany lion??

Cougars like boys over 18. I am over 40 and would consider myself a cougar if I liked a man 30 years-old. But not younger than that.

There is no comparison here, but I get the joke you are trying to make here. Child rape is not something to joke about.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Please, go hang Paterno. Right now. Go straight to his house so you will feel better and all this will be taken care of in your mind.
Forget about the rest of the evidence. Forget about the DA and LE who let it happen. Forget about Sandusky's wife who was always present. Forget about the donors who purchased the kids for sex. Forget that it was the executives at Penn that most likey knew the donors were involved with this. Forget that none of the witnesses didn't intervene or go directly to the police.

This is all Paterno's fault. You're so right. Please, go now and do whatever you wish to this man. You'll feel so much better.

Jow Pa had to be fired, and I agree with it. I read the Grand Jury report, and could not finish it. It is disgusting. How The university knew about this since 1994, and continued to let this go on for this many years is awful. The university knew about this, and than the sick F^&* STILL has access to the facillities?! Joe pa did his legal obligaton as far as reporting it to the athletic director and than president, but he did not fufill his MORAL obligation of finding out the truth, and reporting it to the authorities. This is sooo much more than a football game (which is huge,I am from the SEC) this is about a predator who raped young kids, while the university staff, who knowingly sat back and did nothing. Everyone of them should be fired.

reply to post by Afterthought


Nobody is saying Paterno is solely to blame. But he was the leader of the team, he knew what was going on. Everyone involved needs to be held accountable. He can not be immune to blame and punishment because he was/is a beloved figure.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by de Thor

 

Are you sure about that? "...this obviously is an unprecedented circumstance..."

Posted: Fri, Nov. 11, 2011

"Regarding the ongoing Penn State criminal investigation, the NCAA is actively monitoring developments and assessing appropriate steps moving forward," Emmert said in a statement. "The NCAA will defer in the immediate term to law enforcement officials since this situation involved alleged crimes. As the facts are established through the justice system, we will determine whether Association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly." - NCAA president Mark Emmert

If the NCAA looks at sanctioning Penn State, it appears it would include looking at NCAA Bylaw 2.4, on "principles of sportsmanship and ethical conduct," which calls for "intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants . . .. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program." This broad bylaw typically has been used to regulate behavior such as trash-talking during a game. It appears to be unprecedented to use the bylaw to penalize an institution over ethical conduct. But this obviously is an unprecedented circumstance that has unfolded in State College.

NCAA May Sancation Penn State

edit on 11/11/2011 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/11/2011 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)

Hmm... well now I'm not so sure. When the scandal first broke they said they had no jurisdiction. Now it looks like the NCAA is looking for blood too. Doesn't surprise me though, the NCAA is a bunch of slime balls.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by Malkuth

 

about Mike McQuery...

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary will miss Saturday's game against Nebraska after the school said he received "multiple threats."

I think he's being protected because he was in fact the "whistler blower." Also reports have been pretty vague as to what his immediate reaction actually was. Possible he did stop the rape and at least save the kid that night. Someone eventually went to the police and got the investigation started, I bet it was him.

edit on 11/11/2011 by RedParrotHead because: typos abound!

Thought provoking. However, if he did stop it, I'm sure it would have been noted in the grand jury report. And it wasn't him that went to the police. In fact, after 1998, no one went to the police. One of the victims had to go straight to the AG in 2009 to get anything to happen.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Please, go hang Paterno. Right now. Go straight to his house so you will feel better and all this will be taken care of in your mind.
Forget about the rest of the evidence. Forget about the DA and LE who let it happen. Forget about Sandusky's wife who was always present. Forget about the donors who purchased the kids for sex. Forget that it was the executives at Penn that most likey knew the donors were involved with this. Forget that none of the witnesses didn't intervene or go directly to the police.

This is all Paterno's fault. You're so right. Please, go now and do whatever you wish to this man. You'll feel so much better.

I never said it was the sole fault of Paterno, but Paterno is the face of Penn State. When people think of Penn State, they think Paterno. The crimes occurred in his locker room, shower room, and other rooms where he was in charge of. Did he know Sandusky was bringing these kids in there? Yes he did. There is no disputing that the man who ran the locker room was Paterno.

The crimes occurred while Paterno was coaching. The crimes occurred when Joe Paterno gave the Sandusky full access to the locker room and shower room....after Paterno helped Sandusky negotiate the retirement package...the retirement that came about because Sandusky was confronted by the mother of the victim.

This is all in the grand jury presentment. I did not make this up. Joe Paterno knew Sandusky was forced to quit because of allegations of sex abuse, but then allowed Sandusky to come back onto the property and go to games and practices with Paterno and the team. Read the grand jury presentment.

reply to post by RedParrotHead


Most everyone -- except WarminIndy.
I'm just getting tired of he/she harping on one person.

I blame Sandusky's wife more than Paterno.
How can any woman allow her husband to let young boys sleep in their home and not even have some idea that something was very wrong?
She could've stopped all of this a long time ago. As soon as her husband started the "charity" in 1977, she had plenty of time to speak up.

Originally posted by Malkuth
I am so completely appalled by this Penn State situation I can hardly keep my food down. When Mike McQuery saw Sandusky sodomizing a child in the shower he had a perfect opportunity to run in and save the child. Since this is not what he did I am completely at a loss to understand why he, too, has not been fired.
When witnesses see a murder, but do not report the murder, look out! They can expect the book to thrown at them and HARD. Any one of these individuals who had knowledge of these events but who chose not to call the police or to follow up after whatever reporting they did do should be fired and prosecuted. These poor kids have been ruined...permanently.

RUINED.

Not completely trying to defend Mike McQueary but I can't completely condemn him either. From all reports Sandusky to the outsider world was a great man, an icon and pillar of the community. McQueary had known him for a long time and looked up to him as most people did, while most people would like to think that they would have run and saved the child, just image what must have been going through his mind at that moment.

It wasn't some stranger in a public bathroom, it was a man that everybody respected and idolized, I'm sure a fair amount of people would be paralyzed with shock or done like McQueary did and just run and try to make sense of the situation. Jon Ritchie on First Take who was also close to Sandusky said earlier today that he couldn't even image being in McQueary's position and he probably would have ran and of pure shock and confusion too.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by RedParrotHead

 

Most everyone -- except WarminIndy.
I'm just getting tired of he/she harping on one person.

I blame Sandusky's wife more than Paterno.
How can any woman allow her husband to let young boys sleep in their home and not even have some idea that something was very wrong?
She could've stopped all of this a long time ago. As soon as her husband started the "charity" in 1977, she had plenty of time to speak up.

Why would she have any reason to think that about her husband? If she knew about it and didn't speak up, then yes she's as guilty as Sandusky is, but I think it's totally baseless at this point to assume she knew anything about his transgressions.