Muslims against crusades - BANNED (UK)

Pure and utter bs is what that is. You failed to deal with what I said in any manner.

Politely. Without ever touching down on reality. I salute you sir. Pure propaganda goodness.

reply to post by Immune


The thing is, though, that they're not being banned because of the views they are expressing, but because of how they are expressing them.

In Britain, it is against the law to incite religious or racial hatred, and the Muslims Against the Crusades have repeatedly teetered on the brink of falling foul of inciting religious hatred, by making inflammatory comments about ''infidels''.

They also are liable to create a public order offence, as they are real-life trolls. They were planning on burning poppies tomorrow on Remembrance Sunday - the poppy being a symbol of respect for fallen British servicemen and women.

Outlawing the group won't change the beliefs of the members, but it prevents them from legally mobilising and stirring the pot with their hate-filled rhetoric and actions.

There is absolutely nothing unlawful about protesting - for example, they could have peacefully marched in support of Sharia Law or peacefully protested about British forces in Afghanistan, and that would have been fine.

It's just that groups like these are looking to wind people up and cause aggro, so you really have to ban them as it saves exacerbating the problem in the long run.

Originally posted by Aeons
Pure and utter bs is what that is. You failed to deal with what I said in any manner.

Politely. Without ever touching down on reality. I salute you sir. Pure propaganda goodness.

Well, I'm sorry if I didn't answer your post in the way that you wanted me to (!)

I responded to your post adequately. I fear that you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Aeons
Pure and utter bs is what that is. You failed to deal with what I said in any manner.

Politely. Without ever touching down on reality. I salute you sir. Pure propaganda goodness.

Well, I'm sorry if I didn't answer your post in the way that you wanted me to (!)

I responded to your post adequately. I fear that you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

International standards don't matter.

Documents of intent don't matter.

What the politicians in these areas say doesn't matter.

How people in these areas vote, doesn't matter.

Religious dictates don't matter.

What scholars say doesn't matter.

What religious text says doesn't matter.

What the words mean doesn't matter.

Legal precedent doesn't matter.

Civilian courts don't matter.

Civilian precedent doesn't matter.

Secular law directed by non-secular law doesn't matter.

You are correct. You have completely answered, and I appreciate you being clear about your views.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this while i have no experience with this group so all i know is what is posted here and through my own research. as an outside observer of the situation all i see is an infringement of their right to peacefully assemble. now i understand why the British would be upset at the ceremonies tomorrow because here in the US we had people actually protest at FUNERALS of our fallen sons and daughters not a holiday where all the fallen are honored but at a very personal level meant to honor them individually as we laid them to rest for their ultimate sacrifice so i can see why the outrage is present i personally wanted to beat the snot out of those who were responsible for it but it was their right to protest.

And as for inciting violence in the streets and promoting hate towards anyone those who are responsible should be held accountable and i do see your point that this is the only purpose of the group then round them up next time and incarcerate them outlawing a group will only make them change their name or go underground where they will be harder to monitor. i just see it as a waste of time to ban a group because the group will just change this or that and back to legal it will go and we will have to ban the next group name them the next then the next repeating endlessly so take care of it the right way by holding them responsible for their actions individually instead of just wasting time banning names when they could be fixing our economy

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Freedom and liberty for everyone! Free speech and expression! Yippeee (does not apply to you if you are of the islamic faiths).

This was debated on Sunday and a woman was stating that the poppy was a symbol of respect for those people who have died for their country OF ALL FAITHS and burning the poppy was disrespectful. She stated that she is all for free speech but poppy burning is not free speech. Her parting comment was that it was her freedom to be able to come on the program and burn the Koran (absolutely correct) but doing so would be disrespectful.

FYI a Muslim woman was interviewed and stated quite strongly that the leader of the poppy burners was a "Donkey" not at all representative of her faith and that members of her family had died fighting for Britain and she found the poppy burning totally disrespectful.

Only PC people with no brains would think for one moment that it was a symbol of free speech. Burning things is ALWAYS a sign of disrespect ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS.

This MUC are playing brainless PC people like a well tuned fiddle.

Yes it's so strange how they use democracy as a defense, when it's the very thing they want to dismantle with sharia law. You can't have laws based on religion and call it a democracy. You can't work for the ending of democratic values and use it as a defense when your hate speech is actually addressed.

Originally posted by malcrFYI a Muslim woman was interviewed and stated quite strongly that the leader of the poppy burners was a "Donkey" not at all representative of her faith and that members of her family had died fighting for Britain and she found the poppy burning totally disrespectful.

People who practice their beliefs as a personal relationship and are perfectly normal citizens are nice. I always appreciate that.

Of course, when they are women in this case their views are considered not worth a spit.... but all the same I appreciate it.

In May 2010, Tohseef Shah spray painted a British War Memorial with "islam will dominate osama is coming" he was fined £50 & walked free from court. In November 2010, Emdadur Choudhury burned a Poppy during the 2mins silence. He too was given a £50 fine and walked free from court, 2 men have been sentenced to 12 months in prison for spray painting a Poppy on a mosque. Welcome to the Great British justice system.

This has been circulating on social websites, so you may have seen it.

So, I would just like to say this threads shows how a bit of justice has been given back to the British that still understand what our forefathers fought and died for.

Why dont we (the UK) go over to afghanistan or iraq and pakistan etc etc then try to get what these people get over here???

I have no problemswith immigration into the uk but atleast try to tow the line man!!

Originally posted by Immune
i just see it as a waste of time to ban a group because the group will just change this or that and back to legal it will go and we will have to ban the next group name them the next then the next repeating endlessly so take care of it the right way by holding them responsible for their actions individually instead of just wasting time banning names when they could be fixing our economy

Yeah, they'll no doubt reform under another name, but the important thing is that it stops their momentum, prevents them from gaining publicity for a while and it will stop any trouble with their Remembrance Day ''protest'' now called off.

The problem with holding them responsible for their actions, is that most of them - individually - have probably stayed within the law while being a part of this group. It's the level of incitement they'll induce which is more than likely to create a public order offence.

As I've said before, it's a no-win situation, but it really is the lesser of two evils, in the long run, to have these clowns banned.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes


Your comments are full of question-begging assertions, but there appears to be little of substance to corroborate them. Have you got anything to back up your ''increasing numbers'' comment ?

A recent poll by research organisation ICM of 500 Muslim families revealed that 40 per cent supported the introduction of the strict religious code in Britain. Another, by the right-leaning Policy Exchange, found that more than one-third of young Muslims would be happy to live under Sharia rules.

www.dailymail.co.uk... ocial-moral-implications.html

What ? Muslims aren't automatically granted benefits ! They are entitled to the same benefits as everyone else.

Sure they are. They can take everything western democracies have to offer. Then right after that starts the usual subordination and imposition kind of behavior. They can take benefits, rights and freedom they didn't even dreamed of in their countries of origin, can take all the goods we have to offer but we still are the infidels, immoral, evil so they have to change us by asking to implement Sharia law and even creating enclaves in a country that they came as guests. This is INSANITY !!! And you've been preaching here for hours like there is no tomorrow trying to convince us with your hypocrisy about human rights and multiculturalism and other bs? Or even worst, with a fake moderate point of view about coexistence?

Originally posted by Freeborn

And I don't see Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Animalist, Pagan, Wiccan, Satanism, Athiest or any other religious denomination immigrants trying to do it.
Do you?

And you never will my friend. Is not in their nature ( I mean religious) to impose their believe system to others. But muslims are special. They think they have the right to do whatever they want. They start slow and become to take over or wish to take over like the bubonic plague.

Of course there are some who actively seek to impose Sharia Law - as is their legal right to do so

Whose right? You come to my country, get all the rights, freedom, benefits, welfare (from my tax money) and you think you have the right to try to change my way of life, my laws and my country where I was born and raised as were my forefathers? You want Sharia Law? Go back where you came from. In my country you either behave and respect the law and the culture of the country as its own citizens do or go back from that cave or desert you came from.

Britain will never have a justice system based on Sharia Law. The idea is preposterous.

Britain shouldn't even allow this troglodytes to ask non sense like that. The only idea that they dare to ask is preposterous. I'd like to know how do english people from London feel about this:

www.liveleak.com...

or american people about this:

A group of Muslim students have filed a legal complaint against Catholic University in Washington D.C. because of crosses throughout the campus, finding them offensive, and because they have not been provided with special ‘non-decorated’ rooms for them to pray. The attorney for the students claims they should be allowed to pray in areas of the school where they don’t have “to stare up and be looked down upon by a cross of Jesus.”

newstalk870.am...

or french people, danish people, belgian people, spanish people, german people....the list can be endless. Enough is enough. To hell with multiculturalism, tolerance coexistenc.... Everything has failed. This people know only one answer: Out of my country if you don't like how is made of. Go back where you came from.

I know some of you gonna rush to label me as racist or even worst but I don't care. I'm not racist and I have no problem neither with race or with religion. My problem starts the moment you are invading my culture and are trying to force changes upon it. End of story !!!

I don't have a problem with a certain amount of immigration.

When immigration becomes colonization, or is intended as colonization, that's enough.

Bureaucrats are *not* the deciders of the boundaries of what a culture is.

I guess its a question of "what goes around,..." History has a way of repeating itself.

The navigator James Cook claimed the east coast of Australia for Britain in 1770, without conducting negotiations with the existing inhabitants.

The History of Australia

Surely they wouldn't do that being so upstanding and decent?!

debates over colonial violence lies in the argument, made in recent years in many different contexts and with unprecedented force, that settler colonialism is inherently bound up with extreme, pervasive, structural and even genocidal violence.[41] [41] Among others, Ben Kiernan, Blood and Soil: Genocide and...
suiteWhilst some suggest that all forms of Empire-building have been associated with genocide and mass murder

Here

And here

And they will never force their religion on anyone!

The Puritans left England because of religious persecution, but they, too, were intolerant. In Massachusetts they established laws derived from the Bible, and they punished or expelled those who did not share their beliefs...The Puritans... killed Metacomet, sold his wife and chief supporters into slavery in the West Indies, and scattered his coalition. With that, the power of coastal Native Americans in New England was broken.

The History of the US

The British had led the way in forcing themselves onto the Chinese...China was obliged to accept Christian missionaries -- about 2000 of them. China was forced to accept special privileges for Chinese converts to Christianity, and it was forced to accept "extraterritorial" rights for foreigners -- in other words, obedience to their own (British) laws rather than to Chinese laws.

China

Do not stereotype and generalize, otherwise you are adhering to the call of TPTB - DIViDE AND CONQUER

reply to post by Gatto


Strawman.

You can't talk about protecing your culture, because once upon a time some poeple who looked like you did something.

Oh, and it is bad when you interfer in cultures. BAD.

When other cultures interfer in your that's GOOD.

Ignore the dissonance.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by overseer1136
I agree with your post content except for the last line.

I don't history supports the statement "English are tolerant". Didn't the Brits rule their territories with an iron fist for the Crown?

Doesn't make you bad though.

Sorry, I was referring to 21st century England. I admit our past history is very rocky territory but I like to think we've (beside our idiotic government) have made amendments to this as of late. English people as a whole are generally decent, polite people.

21st century England is brow beaten into being Polically Correct.
This does not equate to tolerance.
It is supression of your true feelings.
I'm waiting for the pressure build-up to cause a big explosion.

Same here in the US.

reply to post by Telos


Haters gonna hate.

I got about halfway through your post, and then I just realised that your post was nothing more than a barely coherent, shoddily formatted, ignorant and hate-filled diatribe, which I can't be arsed wasting 30-45 minutes of my life to rip apart.

It was the ''my country'' part that did it for me. Once I got that far, I knew it wasn't worth the effort replying to someone with such an unrefined mind.

Still, it's you who's got to live with all that bottled up anger and hate, not me. Have fun with that, bro.

Originally posted by Sorgmodig
I hate muslims. Send them back!

I don't hate Muslims. There is no point. They are just people.

It distracts from what needs to be done. Which is to challenge what the frack is going on that stable societies that did everything they could to facilitate a World of Peace after the second World War and have suddenly found that they are being undermined at a pace they cannot handle.

I'm aware you guys are having a problem in Sweden, and there seems to be some serious hard feelings.

I find the governments reaction to be very odd. The "you just need to try harder" approach.

Sweden seemed to be doing pretty well - did exactly what was expected. Become a stable, population neutral, society.

Originally posted by Sorgmodig
I hate muslims. Send them back!

More enlightened, intellectual and stimulating discourse from the Islamophobes.

You people have certainly got such erudite arguments to back up your fear-ridden dislike of people of a different cultural background.

I'm pretty sure that most of your Muslims are Swedish. So where are you planning on sending them back to ?