Those that are against abortion, page 5

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reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 07:15 AM by australian2011

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by australian2011

Its reality. No parents want a child to have any type of limitation. Nobody wishes or hopes for that and you must be deluded to thing they do. Just because they dont want a child with a disability doesnt mean that the children are not loved or anything like that. Thats just how people are.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

By 'limitation' you mean HANDICAP. A child only has a handicap if society makes it that way - a handicap insists that the child cannot do anything, participate in a 'mainstream' society. Well to hell with mainstream society, I believe every child is normal and for people who are against children with disabilities - you ain't so perfect yourself having these judgements!

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 07:32 AM by daryllyn

reply to post by muse7

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity or as a "person".

Well then maybe we should kill the diabetics too. They are dependent on insulin and without it they would die. They cannot live independently of it and their health is dependent on their supply of the drug.

I do not agree with abortion other than for very specific situations.

• Each year, two percent of women aged 15–44 have an abortion. Half have had at least one previous abortion.[2,3]

HALF of all women that have an abortion have had one previously. Pregnancy is 100% preventable, excluding cases of rape of course, so there is no excuse for that.

If you're against abortion then that means that the woman should be forced to have the baby, all because your 1000+ year old book says it's an "evil" thing to do.

Please show me where abortion is mentioned in the Bible.

For me, religion has nothing to do with it. You made a choice to open your legs knowing there were consequences, you should put your big girl panties on and deal with the choice that you made.

Flame away.

linky

edit on 10-11-2011 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 07:45 AM by jennybee35

reply to post by James1982

Wish I could hand out applause, because you definitely deserve it.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 07:45 AM by john_bmth

How many of you pro-lifers are vegetarians?

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 07:46 AM by australian2011

Originally posted by daryllyn
reply to post by muse7

[color=dodgerblue]

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity or as a "person".

Well then maybe we should kill the diabetics too. They are dependent on insulin and without it they would die. They cannot live independently of it and their health is dependent on their supply of the drug.

I do not agree with abortion other than for very specific situations.
[/color]

• Each year, two percent of women aged 15–44 have an abortion. Half have had at least one previous abortion.[2,3]

HALF of all women that have an abortion have had one previously. Pregnancy is 100% preventable, excluding cases of rape of course, so there is no excuse for that.

If you're against abortion then that means that the woman should be forced to have the baby, all because your 1000+ year old book says it's an "evil" thing to do.

Please show me where abortion is mentioned in the Bible.

For me, religion has nothing to do with it. You made a choice to open your legs knowing there were consequences, you should put your big girl panties on and deal with the choice that you made.

Flame away.

linky
edit on 10-11-2011 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

Yes, and thankyou for pointing out that non-Christians and Christians can see the ethical reasons behind why abortion is just wrong. It is not only murder but it supports those in favour of cosmetically chosen babies (eugenics/superior 'race'), for those who are prejudice against children with disabilities etc.

I am a Christian and know the bible states 'Thou shalt not kill' but I also know that my belief system isn't the only fundamental reason why abortion is wrong. It is wrong because it killing another human being is wrong especially if you are 'for' human rights. Abortion supports difference,

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 07:51 AM by nixie_nox

reply to post by heineken

Because humans and marsupials have so much in common?

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 08:03 AM by RedParrotHead

reply to post by australian2011

Don't congratulate him for threatening a woman and forcing her to have his babies. I think you people are a bit crazy and would "tie her to a tree" for nine months, literally. I'm no fan of abortion and wouldn't want my wife (or girlfriend if that was the case) to ever get one. But damn, I wouldn't forcibly impose my will on her. Especially about something that is legal in this country and something that I happen to believe (life starts at conception) but is highly debatable.

Sounds like this joker should have been more thoughtful and discriminating about where he stuck his penis, unless maybe he forced that as well.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 08:14 AM by Praetorius

reply to post by muse7

I am curious - will you defend this right to freedom of choice and one's body on all other issues?

Do you support my right to put in my body anything I choose or do what I want with/on my property without interference as long as I don't impede the rights of others to do the same?

Do you support my right to decide how the fruits of my labor (taxes, etc.) are spent/applied, even if that means an end to public funding for any entity that performs abortions, provides birth control, and so forth?

It's definitely a sticky issue, and as with anything, I myself would rather push for education and treatment to address the abortion matter - however, I would find the whole thing much less irksome if the staunch defenders and advocates of abortion would apply their arguments equally and with such tenacity to all matters including personal choice - removal of regulations that limit options in the marketplace, not seeking federal/public funding for any of these services as those who put money into such funds by the sweat of their brow may not agree with those things, and end to any sort of compulsory involvement in such things.

But, I tend to find these same people being for strict regulation of so many things, wanting public funding for so many pet projects, and the like. I have a hard time understanding the disconnect if the only real concern about choice is THIS specific choice.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 08:17 AM by Elentarri

If it's perfectly ok to euthanasia an old and/ or sick pet and to dump unwanted kittens/ puppies etc into rivers to get rid of them, then I don't see what the fuss is about aborting a fetus. What the hell makes anyone think humans are so special compared to all the other living creatures on the planet?

This world is screwed up as it is and dumping an unwanted child into is not fair on that child or all us other schmucks who end up supporting it via various government taxes, institutions etc.

A woman's decision to have an abortion is HER decision, especially if rape is involved. End of story.

PS - I don't see what the bible has to do with this issue if the woman in question does not follow that particular religion.???

If it has to do with the go forth and multiply and conquer the earth, we have already done that and screwed up nicely. Now I think we have to apply some moderation to the breeding and consuming.

edit on 10/1111/11 by Elentarri because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 08:19 AM by James1982

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by James1982
When does this power that women hold stop? Can a woman kill her 10 year old child because she just doesn't want it anymore?

I see this argument so often that I'm starting to wonder if the "pro-lifers" are actually fantasizing about murdering their own children. Given that you seem to see no difference between a single cell undergoing meiosis, and a ten year old, it wouldn't surprise me.

I already stated I'm not against abortion. I do feel women who are raped or victims of incest should be able to have abortions. Also whenever the mother's life is in danger because of the pregnancy.

Women who are just lazy and don't have a sense of responsibility to NOT get pregnant in the first place, well sorry I don't feel bad for them.

To me there is a point where it becomes a child, and this is sometime before birth. Where exactly that line gets drawn seems like a huge gray area, which is why I think it's dangerous. When it's nothing but a collection of random cells, no, I wouldn't call that a child. When it's something that resembles a human more than a tadpole, I'd call it a child. At 16 weeks, that's a tiny tiny human child, not JUST a bunch of cells.

Would you, or fans of abortions have any problems with taking their 20 week aborted fetus and throwing it off a bridge? Taking that little tiny person and doing something like that? You probably would have an issue with it, because deep down you know that's a child, NOT just a few cells.

And no, I don't think about killing my children, I don't have any. I think my line of questioning makes perfect sense, as I consider a fetus with a head, legs, and arms to be a person, not just random cells, so if it's OK to kill that, then it should be OK to kill a child at any age. I personally don't see the distinction, they are BOTH human children, just because one is inside a woman doesn't mean it should be killed.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 09:13 AM by Ookie

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by australian2011

Sounds like this joker should have been more thoughtful and discriminating about where he stuck his penis, unless maybe he forced that as well.

Considering I was 20 years old and had been faithfully married to my wife for two years at that point I think I was very discriminating about where I put it. My wife was great at drinking, partying, socializing, dancing, and having adventures. But being a mother? She was the worst one ever. Not much of a housewife either. Her now ex husband number 5 told me she had learned to be a good housekeeper but it took a lot of beatings to get her there.

At any rate, it can't be a crime to prevent murder. That is what I did. Abortion is murder. Period. The worst kind of murder because the victim is truly innocent of any crime or sin. I refuse to allow my children to be murdered. I will fight to my death to prevent it. Whether in the womb or as adults. Makes no difference.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 09:33 AM by OutKast Searcher

Murder is Murder...I don't need any book to tell me that.

Murdering an innocent can never be justified...even if your government says it's "legal".

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 09:41 AM by RedParrotHead

reply to post by Ookie

We could go round and round about "abortion being murder" on a biological level, it is a debatable topic. Are 2 cells lumped together a person? Who knows. Could 2 cells become a person? Absolutely they could. I'd personally rather not take a chance myself, thus I am against aborting human pregnancies.

Still, you already had one child with a woman who you described as a terrible and reluctant mother, OK...why then choose to put another baby in her at that point? I just don't think you should be applauded for that decision. Believe me, I know what it's like. The mother of my oldest turned out to be a terrible person, once I found that out I took my boy away and raised him without her - not that it was that difficult because 3 years after I broke it off she ended up in jail for 10 years for embezzlement.

I'm no hero and neither are you is all I'm saying. You just come off as very self righteous. Good job on raising those kids though...my oldest is now 14 and I'm just now meeting the rebellious side of him.

edit on 11/10/2011 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 09:42 AM by caladonea

reply to post by James1982

I find it interesting that in society when a baby is inside the mothers womb and she decides to (get rid of it and abort)- kill it - it is legal.....as soon as the baby is born...and outside of her body...if she kills it....she has murdered the baby...and shes goes to prison.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 10:00 AM by RedParrotHead

reply to post by caladonea

I don't think anyone is OK with "killing a baby" the debatable point is when is does a fertilized egg become a person? Many people believe that a it's not a person until there is a brain and/or nervous system. Some religious people think that there is a soul inside those first two cells and some don't. Common sense tells me that without a brain you are not a person yet ... but I'm not 100% sure so I am against abortion.

Hypothetically - If a persons brain is somehow damaged and is completely removed but the body is kept alive by machines, does that person still have rights...is it even a person or a lump of meat that would die without it's support system? That is sort of how I feel about very early stages of pregnancy.

edit on 11/10/2011 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/10/2011 by RedParrotHead because: typos abound!

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 10:14 AM by SHABBYCAT

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

I MEAN THIS IN THE NICEST WAY POSSIBLE...........by your logic wouldn't it make non of this your business???? It just seems hypocritical for you to say people who care about others are losers and its nobodys business ,wouldn't that make this non of YOUR BUSINESS.

I REALLY HATE to see people be so rude and ugly to each other ......especially in a debate such as this. I don't see anything wrong with ANYONE voicing their own opinion on an anonymous board as long as its not mean ,ugly and rude. Who is gonna suffer just discussing your opinion???? I think its what we as humans are to do. We need each other ,we are designed for relationships and interaction with one another. So I don't see someone having an opinion on the issue of abortion as a loser.

People have hearts and just the thought of a child/baby/embryo being aborted/killed/cancelled/murdered tugs at peoples hearts.

I personally hate abortion and it is NOT for ME. the idea if the government telling ANYONE what to do more than they already do turns my tummy but its so hard for me to say I approve abortion. If I were the one responsible for providing women with abortions ,no women under any circumstances would have one. But I am not in charge as it falls so I have no say. I just can't say I would ever want anyone to have an abortion I just can't say it but I'm not the one who decides these things and THANK GOODNESS I'M NOT.

My life has been touched by abortion and adoption. I know people ,close people to me, that have had some way one or more of those things in their lives and I have to say I prefer adoption. I know adoption is hard but id much prefer a woman choose that over ending the life of her child.

Now I want to add ,if someone I knew came to me pre having an abortion ,I'd try to help them come up with an alternative and offer my help BUT......if someone I knew came to me and said they had had an abortion I WOULD NOT JUDGE THEM .........NOT MY PLACE

BUT.....I don't have to be pro life nor pro choice. I am neither.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 10:24 AM by overratedpatriotism

How dare that baby! Who does it think it is purposefully getting inside that woman without her consent like that. She should murder it. I cannot believe that baby made her get raped like that. That deserves The death penalty.

Personally as a father and a husband I would accept the child, but I can try to imagine how someone else wouldn't.

The one time I would consider it, is if both lives were in jeopardy and the baby would still die. Whatever happened to mothers who were selfless and would die for their children? It seems these days mothers would use their own children as human shields. It has been a while since I have heard of a mother who goes into labor knowing she will die just to give her child a chance to experience life.

Since you brought up my religion in the first post. I'll add this.
An athiest only has one shot at life then poof gone for all eternity, you would think life would be more valuable when you do not believe in an afterlife, but that is just me.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 10:35 AM by phishyblankwaters

reply to post by BlackStar99

It's still a mind and a body.

Actually, it's technically neither:

Week 9 to 16

Fetus attached to placenta, approximately 12 weeks after fertilization. The fetal stage commences at the beginning of the 9th week.[1] At the start of the fetal stage, the fetus is typically about 30 millimetres (1.2 in) in length from crown to rump, and weighs about 8 grams.[1] The head makes up nearly half of the fetus' size.[9] Breathing-like movement of the fetus is necessary for stimulation of lung development, rather than for obtaining oxygen.[10]

The heart, hands, feet, brain and other organs are present, but are only at the beginning of development and have minimal operation.[11][12]

Fetuses are not capable of feeling pain at the beginning of the fetal stage, and may not be able to feel pain until the third trimester.[13]

At this point in development, uncontrolled movements and twitches occur as muscles, the brain and pathways begin to develop.[14]

Source

If a fetus is to be considered human before it's brain and organs are fully developed and functioning, where does it stop? Is a sperm a human being? Is an egg being flushed from a woman during her period a human?

I agree with you, not everyone against abortion bases that decision on their religion. Only the vocal ones standing outside every single clinic I've ever seen are. Find me an anti-abortion rally that doesn't tell me how Jesus is crying, and how it's a sin, and how we will burn in hell.

And for the record, I support a woman's choice over her body, but I'm not directly supporting abortion, it's not my concern. Now if my wife wanted one, that's a different story, part of that child is based on my genetics and that's the only time I feel I would have a valid reason for wanting a say in what happens.

Just as I don't feel the government has any right to inspect my genitals or my sexual habits, I don't feel the government should be deciding what women can and can't do.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 10:39 AM by Submarines

reply to post by muse7

Remember that statement you just made when your wife, sister, aunt or whomever miscarries in the 11th week at home in the middle of the night. Remeber when you hold that tiny creature in the palm of your hand and you can actually count the fingers and toes, and yes see that it is actually a boy or a girl, dead and cold that it isnt anything but a lump of flesh.

I supported a woman's right to choose, because all of that BS propaganda. Then on Jan. 16th 1997, I held my dead son in my hand. My son, William, showed me that it was all a lie. It is and was a life and there is no way around it.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 10:40 AM by phishyblankwaters

reply to post by overratedpatriotism

Since you brought up my religion in the first post. I'll add this. An athiest only has one shot at life then poof gone for all eternity, you would think life would be more valuable when you do not believe in an afterlife, but that is just me.

Maybe because an atheist doesn't fear a vengeful god that may or may not exist and a punishment that may or may not happen in an afterlife that may or may not be there.

Here's food for thought. How is girl A getting an abortion directly affect you?

As I said in another thread, if the choice is no abortions unless a life is in danger, then you'd better get your wallet out because SOMEONE is going to have to pay for the social services and healthcare for that child.

Much like same sex marriage, those adamantly opposed to it are completely unaffected by it.

If you honestly feel the way you do, maybe help fund or work for a counseling clinic to try to persuade these girls not to have abortions? Instead of removing their ability to make a choice, maybe try to influence their choice instead? I don't know how it works in the US or elsewhere, but Canada offers counselling and abortion isn't the first answer.