Those that are against abortion

Originally posted by muse7
Are you also against the woman having an abortion if she gets raped by a family member/complete stranger?

If you're against abortion then that means that the woman should be forced to have the baby, all because your 1000+ year old book says it's an "evil" thing to do. It's a shame how religion still has a choke hold on social issues, especially in America. European countries are light years ahead of us when it comes to gay unions/marriage/abortion etc..Why? Because they have managed to set themselves free from the teachings of an ancient book that was based on nothing more than superstitions that are considered stupid and foolish by the majority of the scientific community.

You should stop making others feel guilty because of their personal decisions, at the end of the day it's THEIR life and not yours you don't know the situation they are in. Some of them don't like the idea of giving up the baby for adoption and they shouldn't be forced into anything because of the stupid beliefs that are still prominent amongst some.

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity or as a "person".

edit on 11/10/2011 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

My response is Gianna Jessen, abortion survivor:

youtu.be...

As Gianna infers, who gave her a choice? Which woman was standing up for her life so she could live it?

I see you mentioning a lot about women who abort because they are raped or from incest. What are the stats on this? Please show me because I will bet that most people who abort they babies are aborting them from either misinformation, or for cosmetic/selfish reasons.

Did you know today we have people aborting babies just for the POSSIBILITY they may be born with a disability. What does this say about these people, it says that people with disabilities should not be allowed to live a life. Furthermore we have people choosing what they want their babies to look like, tall, blonde, thin, blue eyes - is this what you pro-choicers want? As far as I am concerned anyone who is pro-choice may as well join Hitler's bandwagon in the name of eugenics and the creation of a 'superior race'.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by muse7

 

unless that decision directly effects someone else, it should be no one elses business.

I agree.

But you see, aborting a baby does effect someone else.

Number one, it effects the baby you are murdering. I am so sick and tired of the "IT'S THE WOMAN'S BODY IT'S HER CHOICE!!!" argument. The baby is NOT the woman's body or property. A woman can control her body all she wants, but when control of her body turns into murdering someone else, that's when I cannot understand why it's OK. That's the same thing as saying that a woman has the right to strangle her two month old baby to death because nobody has the right to tell her what to do with her own hands. Her hands belong to her right? She should be able to strangle a baby or two if she wants to right? A woman can do whatever she wants with her body, even if it means the death of others. What an awesome world some live in.

How is that any different? You say a woman has the right to do whatever she wants with her body, right? So you don't have a problem with her using her body to murder someone else? Strangle someone, shoot someone? Nobody has the right to tell you what to do with your body? You really think that? Even if you wielding control of your body means killing someone else? Not cool at all...................

In addition to that, the father of the murdered child might be effected by this murder. You say unless that decision effects someone else, well doesn't it effect the father of the baby the modern empowered woman decides to murder? He doesn't matter at all thought right, because he's just a man, and woman are allowed to murder at will with no consequences. What a world.

When does this power that women hold stop? Can a woman kill her 10 year old child because she just doesn't want it anymore?

Just so you know, I'm not religious at all, and never have been. I actually support abortion rights, because if abortion was only legal for rapes and incest, I have no doubt a bunch of innocent men would be going to prison because women accused them of rape just so they could murder their child. .

As sad as it is, I can't see any way to stop women from murdering their children without hurting other people. So, the only option is to allow women to murder their children. Such a sick, disgusting world we live in, where there are such evil people like a woman who would murder a child in cold blood just because she is too depraved to simply use protection or stay away from sex. Sick, sad, disgusting, these words do no justice.

reply to post by calstorm


www.guttmacher.org...

I do not wish to make light of this topic. But I can't help but think that if you were raped by an alien probe and became pregnant with an alien baby you might be singing a different tune.

You know the evil alien overlords are hoping the anti-abortion people win this issue. That's when they will impregnate every female on the planet. untill then they wait......

reply to post by James1982


you mention the word "child" but we're not discussing children, we're discussing why women should have a choice to whether or not have an abortion.

No one is "murdering" a child, abortion involves fetuses that are still in the early stages of development.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
I do not wish to make light of this topic. But I can't help but think that if you were raped by an alien probe and became pregnant with an alien baby you might be singing a different tune.

You know the evil alien overlords are hoping the anti-abortion people win this issue. That's when they will impregnate every female on the planet. untill then they wait......

Well here is a little insight for you: Aliens are demons. A demon cannot touch a Holy Spirit filled Christian, they are rebuked straight back to hell by our Lord Jesus Christ if they try ANYTHING .

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

so why arent you out there trying to catch murderers?

I am not a policeman.

why fight for fetus's but not for other animals being killed?

We are talking about human foetusi, obviously, not animals. And I am a big supporter of animal rights.

Originally posted by James1982
When does this power that women hold stop? Can a woman kill her 10 year old child because she just doesn't want it anymore?

I see this argument so often that I'm starting to wonder if the "pro-lifers" are actually fantasizing about murdering their own children. Given that you seem to see no difference between a single cell undergoing meiosis, and a ten year old, it wouldn't surprise me.

reply to post by muse7


I find it hilarious that pro-choicers - people who exist, who have lives, are dictating whether others should live or die.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I personally think if you have a life then you have no right in saying who lives and who dies.


It is like the organ donar scenerio, if you are not willing to give up your organs why should you be allowed to have any if you are in a serious accident?

reply to post by australian2011


Does your whole argument against pro-choice revolve around making others feel guilty?

reply to post by muse7


Haha well you said it, you feel guilty. You only feel guilty if you know you're wrong...

reply to post by australian2011


I didn't say anything, I just asked you that because you're proving a point that I made in my OP.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by australian2011

 

Does your whole argument against pro-choice revolve around making others feel guilty?

What I would like to know muse is what is your stance on whether babies with 'possible' disabilities (9/10 these children are born without disabilities) be allowed to be aborted if the parent/s don't want them? And if you say yes, then are you saying people with disabilities are not really people, scum of the earth that deserve to die?

And what is your stance on parents who want to abort their babies if there is the chance they may be born with brown hair instead of blonde? Because you know that this is happening, parents eventually will be able to determine what their children look like and bye bye baby if they are not what they want.


If you have questioned your first stance with any of these questions then you need to face up to the fact pro-choice is in many ways pro-prejudism, pro-racism and of course pro-death.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by australian2011

 

I didn't say anything, I just asked you that because you're proving a point that I made in my OP.

What is guilt? Where does it originate? I feel guilty because I know it is wrong. You don't feel guilty if you know what you're doing is the right thing.

You are correct in saying us Christians don't know what it is like for someone who has been raped/incest but I am mainly talking about the millions of aborted babies out there who if given the chance to live would be like me and you. But parents for selfish reasons (cosmetic/sleeping around and not caring), and for reasons beyond their control (China), are aborting babies that can be supported. But for the reasons babies could be born with a disability, like Gianna Jessen tells us. The horror that fills my heart hearing this....

reply to post by australian2011

Haha well you said it, you feel guilty. You only feel guilty if you know you're wrong...

Ah, here's where you are losing sight of reality. Of course everyone who has ever had to deal with this issue feels guilty and knows that a mistake was made somewhere along the line.

And there is no shame in admitting guilt about having an abortion. People should feel guilty. This is about a person who has become pregnant being able to decide for themselves whether to go through 9 months of gestation or whether a person who becomes pregnant should be forced to have the child.

If a woman becomes pregnant does the life of the unborn child take precedent over the life of the woman. If a woman becomes pregnant and wants to have an abortion. Should she be strapped down and force fed to keep the baby alive?

No, the rights of the unborn child do not take priority over the rights of the woman. As much as I believe in the rights of a human being. I also believe in choosing the lesser of two evils. Prohibiting abortion is a greater evil than the act of abortion itself in my opinion.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by australian2011

 

Haha well you said it, you feel guilty. You only feel guilty if you know you're wrong...

Ah, here's where you are losing sight of reality. Of course everyone who has ever had to deal with this issue feels guilty and knows that a mistake was made somewhere along the line.

And there is no shame in admitting guilt about having an abortion. People should feel guilty. This is about a person who has become pregnant being able to decide for themselves whether to go through 9 months of gestation or whether a person who becomes pregnant should be forced to have the child.

If a woman becomes pregnant does the life of the unborn child take precedent over the life of the woman. If a woman becomes pregnant and wants to have an abortion. Should she be strapped down and force fed to keep the baby alive?

No, the rights of the unborn child do not take priority over the rights of the woman. As much as I believe in the rights of a human being. I also believe in choosing the lesser of two evils. Prohibiting abortion is a greater evil than the act of abortion itself in my opinion.

This is very contradicting. You believe in human rights yet you believe in abortion?

So what is your stance on people with disabilities, on children who may be born with the possibility of a disability and aborted for that reason? Do you think that people with disabilities do not deserve to live?

And now tell me whether you are FOR human rights.

It is you who has lost site of reality, if I say I hate people with disabilities I will feel guilty because I know I am nothing more than a prejudice person who doesn't give a quack about these peoples lives. Do you know Gianna Jessen? The abortion survivor who states 'where were womens rights when I was about to have my own life snuffed out'.

youtu.be...

What would you tell her? That the lesser of two evils is that she should be dead right now? Come on...

reply to post by australian2011

This is very contradicting. You believe in human rights yet you believe in abortion?

I don't see how it is contradicting. I said sometimes people have to choose the lesser of two evils.

It is up to each individual what they consider to be the lesser for them. No one can say for another person what choice they should have to make when in a sad situation such as the decision whether to have an abortion or not.

Are you seriously suggesting that a woman who wants an abortion be treated like a criminal and her rights be taken away. She becomes a human incubator with less rights than an unborn fetus ???.

EDIT:
Why not just outlaw premarital sex all together.? Why not decide when a woman is allowed to become pregnant at all? If you want to take away a persons rights then why not just put a computer chip for a brain and send them on their way to do your bidding?

reply to post by muse7


I would say that i see your point on the "being raped aspect etc", however, the majority of abortions take place NOT because of that. The majority of abortions take place because stupid young girls fall pregnant and are either forced into the abortion through peer pressure or because they simply cannot be asse* looking after the child.

As for the "raped" aspect, if it can be proven that the mother was raped then yes i agree with it but IMO there are too many lax rules regarding it it has become an accepted norm for abortions and that is wrong. I personally know 3 people who have had abortions and every one of them regrets it, one person has turned to alcohol because of it and another was suicidal over it but at the time they felt it was the right thing to do because of sociatal imaging.

The fetus may not be an independent organism, able to fend for itself but it is still a very early creation of humanity..that in itself should have rights.

As or your comment on the EU being leaps ahead of the US, i'd disagree with you. In the UK, religion is still very rife. The acceptance of homosexual relationships to the level that it is in the UK brings its own set of problems, trust me...

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by australian2011

 

This is very contradicting. You believe in human rights yet you believe in abortion?

I don't see how it is contradicting. I said sometimes people have to chose the lesser of two evils.

It is up to each individual what they consider to be the lesser for them. No one can say for another person what choice they should have to make when in a sad situation such as the decision whether to have an abortion or not.

Are you seriously suggesting that a woman who wants an abortion be treated like a criminal and her rights be taken away. She becomes a human incubator with less rights than an unborn fetus ???.

Ok so you agree that children can be aborted if they have the possibility of a disability which basically means that children with disabilities are nothing, their lives are crap - why do we bother fitting them into society, if they can be aborted GO FOR IT? You agree that if the parents want a baby with blonde hair/blue eyes, pro-hollywood - that's their choice to keep aborting until they get the right ones. Abort abort abort!!

Thanks for your answer!