The Relationships Between The Nubians & Ancient Egyptians.

reply to post by SirShawn


Thank you for such informative posts.

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

Egyptian men painted their skin with dark ochre and Egyptian women painted their skin with light ochre, what did you actually think in reality Egyptian men were darker skinned then Egyptian women

Who are the " Asiatics " ?

Indians , Chinese , Siberians ?

reply to post by LUXUS


Luxus, don't be selective with what pictures you choose. Painting their women in a yellow hue was not always the case, as shown here.

Originally posted by 23432


Who are the " Asiatics " ?

Indians , Chinese , Siberians ?

The Asiatics to the ancient Egyptians were most likely people who resided in the Levant area, particularly the Hyksos and many other groups.

reply to post by LUXUS


How ignorant can you get? Notice that he has absolutely no answer to the peer reviewed studies presented which confirm that the original ancient Egyptians were black Africans from further south. All he can do to support his #ed up theory is rely on his own eye ball anthropology of selective individual skeletons. The quote below seals the deal for all of these White Supremacist history stealing assholes:

"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)

and

"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999). pp 328-332)

king Tut



Grandmother Tiye



Grandfather Amenhotep

In summary the ancient Egyptians were black Africans. Butt hurt racist need to get over this fact!

reply to post by LUXUS


No those are the words of Zahi Hawass NOT the council. Hawass has contradicted himself so many times on this issue that he none factor. In one breath he's states that they were not black, then in another he states that Egyptian artwork (which is his expertise) does not answer the question of race (in his National Geographic interview). That latter logically MOOTS his statement that they were not black.

Regardless there is biological evidence which CONFIRM that the closest populations to the ancient Egyptians in every way shape and form are more southerly Northeast African populations:

"Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Ku#es, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans." (S. O. Y and A.J. Boyce, "The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians", in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 20-33)

Limb proportions also confirm that the original ancient Egyptians came from more southerly Northeast African regions. The peer reviewed study below confirms that the ancient Egyptians had "Super Negroid body plans" like other black Africans.

"The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983).. This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.

They were black get over it!

Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Luxus, don't be selective with what pictures you choose. Painting their women in a yellow hue was not always the case, as shown here.

Where are the men in those pictures? I invite anyone to do a google image search of Egyptian wall art and they will see that in the vast majority of cases when men are depicted with women the men are always darker. Since I have studied many paintings I know this to be true now it is you who are being selective with your choice of paintings!

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9


Anytime, these racist butt hurt white folk are so sickening with ignorant lies. They will continue to make false assertions in light of the fact that they have no answer to the conclusive biological and cultural evidence that have been shown. I expect a long selective picture spam from the racist white guy in this thread.

Originally posted by SirShawn
reply to post by LUXUS

 

How ignorant can you get? Notice that he has absolutely no answer to the peer reviewed studies presented which confirm that the original ancient Egyptians were black Africans from further south. All he can do to support his #ed up theory is rely on his own eye ball anthropology of selective individual skeletons. The quote below seals the deal for all of these White Supremacist history stealing assholes:

I think we both know who the history stealers are

Originally posted by SirShawn
reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

 

Anytime, these racist butt hurt white folk are so sickening with ignorant lies. They will continue to make false assertions in light of the fact that they have no answer to the conclusive biological and cultural evidence that have been shown. I expect a long selective picture spam from the racist white guy in this thread.

No I think we all know who is going to spam the thread with pictures!

reply to post by LUXUS


Just as I predicted this guy ducks and dodges the biological aspect of this debate (because it proves that the ancient Egyptians were black), in favor of an argument comprised picture spamming subjective and highly selective (on his part) art work of the ancient Egyptians. It's PATHETIC! The original ancient Egyptians were a mixture of Sub Saharan East Africans and ancient Nilotic Saharan Africans. My evidence just presented confirms this fact, yet he does not address, HENCE he knows that his argument is #!

reply to post by LUXUS


dude

show pictures of ramsees father....seti1.....iv seen it in the museum...blacker then black.

besides all of the 18th and 19th dynasty pharaohs were buried in valley of the kings...nubian land

NUBIANS are not your idea of what blacks are but they were black.....tall slim, thin lips, soft hair....but black...golden brown...ie kenuzi nubians....i reiterate nubians back then were....punt, kush, philea and the nile valley.....asiatics only were present in the delta....

so when the scholars say "nubian" it could mean any of the above

peace

Originally posted by SirShawn
reply to post by LUXUS

 

"Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Ku#es, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans." (S. O. Y and A.J. Boyce, "The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians", in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 20-33)

My friend I suggest you learn what north,south,east and west is in relation to the Nile. South is Nubia, Sudan, upper Egypt…why would anyone be surprised that the people there have more negroid type characteristics?

reply to post by thePharaoh


Speaking of 18th and 19th Dynasty Pharaohs, a peer reviewed skeletal analysis of their remains groups them as Negroes rather than with Whites:

"It can be seen that all the pharonic values, including those of 'Smakhare', lie much closer to the negro curve than to the white curve. Since stature equations only work satisfactorily in the individuals to whom they have applied have similar proportions to the population group from which they are derived, this provides justification for using negro equations for estimating stature from single bones of the New Kingdom pharoahs, renforcing the previous findings of Robins (1983). Furthermore, the Troller and Gleser white equations for the femur, tibia and humerus yield stature values that have a much wider spread than those from negro equations with mean values that are unacceptably large." --Robins and Schute. The Physical Proportions and Stature of New Kingdom Pharaohs," Journal of Human Evolution 12 (1983), 455-465

and

"Estimates of living stature, based on X-ray measurements applied to the Trotter & Gleser (1958) negro equations for the femur, tibia and humerus, have been made for ancient Egyptian kings belonging to the 18th and 19th dynasties. The corresponding equations for whites give values for stature that are unsatisfactorily high. The view that Thutmose III was excessively short is proved to be a myth. It is shown that the limbs of the pharaohs, like those of other Ancient Egyptians, had negroid characteristics, in that the distal segments were relatively long in comparison with the proximal segments. An exception was Ramesses II, who appears to have had short legs below the knees." --Robins and Schute. The Physical Proportions and Stature of New Kingdom Pharaohs," Journal of Human Evolution 12 (1983), 455-465

I posted another limb proportion study earlier which found that the ancient Egyptians have tropically adapted like other black Africans since Pre-Dynastic times. The biological and cultural evidence is irrefutable! The ancient Egyptians were black Africans. Butt Hurt racist white folk are the only ones who can't accept this fact!

reply to post by LUXUS


What in the Hell are you talking about? The original ancient Egyptians are Pre-Dynastic southern Egyptians? Oh wait, did you even that it was Southern Egypt were Dynastic culture originated and then spread to the North? Southern Egypt is also where the vast majority of unified Egypt's population resided. And as you can read those Pre-Dynastic Southern Egyptians were no essentially no different in phenotype than ancient Nubians, Ku#es, Saharans, and modern Horn Africans. Therefore the original ancient Egyptians were black Africans. I guess that's too much for you to handle.

reply to post by thePharaoh


If it has been found that Ramses II was a “Lectoderm” then how could his father Seti I be a black man....think about it!

Originally posted by SirShawn
reply to post by LUXUS

 

What in the Hell are you talking about? The original ancient Egyptians are Pre-Dynastic southern Egyptians? Oh wait, did you even that it was Southern Egypt were Dynastic culture originated and then spread to the North? Southern Egypt is also where the vast majority of unified Egypt's population resided. And as you can read those Pre-Dynastic Southern Egyptians were no essentially no different in phenotype than ancient Nubians, Ku#es, Saharans, and modern Horn Africans. Therefore the original ancient Egyptians were black Africans. I guess that's too much for you to handle.

Where is Hierakonpolis??????

“ Most of the hair samples are cynotrichous (Caucasian) in type as opposed to heliotrichous (Negroid). Though most hair found is a natural dark brown and wavy, one ancient man had curly, naturally red hair.”

www.rom.on.ca...

“1Cynotrichous hair – from the ancient Greek: “To be like dog’s hair”, due to dog’s fur that can range from curly to straight. Cyno = dog trich = hair ous = of a type.”
“Dr. Fletchers results gave evidence of the “pre-dynastic” Egyptians hair type displaying an array of many differing hair colours and shades known as ‘Celtic Colours’ ranging from: very dark brown, brown, red/brown, dark blonde and blonde, colour that is seen today in North Europe and North America. Also the hair ‘type’ (which was also used in the entire construction of the ancient Egyptian wigs) was not of the wrongly “supposed” Negroid type but was found to be 1Cynotrichous hair.”

www.redbubble.com...

reply to post by LUXUS


OK first of all think about your #ing approach to this entire topic! Why are you holding up ONE #ing pharaoh to represent the millions of inhabitants in a 3,000 year period (assuming that the study is even accurate). Secondly WHY are you continuing to reply to everyone without acknowledging the # load of authoritative studies that have confirmed that the general populace of ancient Egypt (particularly during the earlier times) looked like more southerly African populations? Do you not realize how self defeating that is? Are you aware of the fact that the ruling elite of Pre-Dynastic Egypt were essentially Nubians?

"A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt." (T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of cranial and dental morphological traits and evidence for endogamy in ancient Egypt". American journal of physical anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)

This fact completely refutes your assertions of Egyptian and Nubian hostilities and Egyptian domination of Nubia. The funniest thing is Upper Egyptians and Nubians were essentially the same population (even according to other statements from this same anthropologist) so the biological differences would have minor if any.

reply to post by LUXUS


Those website offers NOT ONE scientific reference for those assertions. Your evidence is # compared to mine, mainly due to the fact that my evidence is all PEER REVIEWED (Do you even understand what that indicates about a source's legitimacy) and not quotes from random un-sourced websites. Get a #ing clue and get off of ancient Africa's jock. The ancient Egyptians were black, Get over it.