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The Relationships Between The Nubians & Ancient Egyptians.

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posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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The civilization of ancient Egypt, spanning some 3,000 years, has captivated the minds of many throughout the years, ranging from the monumental architectural achievements of the pyramids to the illustrious tombs of the pharaohs. Till this day, much is still being figured out about this civilization and the source of its cultural identity. Many of the cultural elements associated with Egypt originated in the Sudanic-Saharan areas. But it's important to note that there was an Asiatic influence that occurred during the Predynastic period, as can be seen from pottery and stylized palettes, but I'll save this for another thread.

Here is a map of Egypt and Sudan for reference:


I would like to mention that Upper (Southern) & Lower (Northern) Egypt retained their own regalia and that Menes (there is some debate over whether or not he is synonymous with Narmer) is accredited with the unification of Upper & Lower Egypt around 3,000 BC. Thus, being the reason for why the king refers to himself as, "The King of Two Lands" and wears the "double crown". Another striking piece of information is that both Upper & Lower Egypt had distinct kingdoms with a populace that spoke different dialects.

So now let's dive deeper into the prehistory of Nubia. The ancient Egyptians referred to Nubia as Ta-Seti, or "The Land of the Bow" because they were adept archers. Modern archaeologists refer to this as the "A-Group" culture which withheld many parallels to its ancient Egyptian contemporaries (e.g. Naqada at Upper Egypt). I'll briefly touch on the A-Group and say the A-Group material remains display a blending of Egyptian and Sudanese designs and influences. Just by looking at the map above, it's easy to see how Nubia is an intermediary between Egypt and the rest of North-East Africa.



Most surprising, evidence that early pharaohs ruled in A-Group Nubia was discovered by the Oriental Institute at Qustul, almost at the modern Sudanese border. A cemetery of large tombs contained evidence of wealth and representations of the rulers and their victories. Other representations and monuments could then be identified, and in the process, a lost kingdom, called Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow, was discovered. In fact, the cemetery at Qustul leads directly to the first great royal monuments of Egypt in a progression. Qustul in Nubia could well have been the seat of Egypt's founding dynasty.


There is a wide variety of information on the continuity of cultural diffusion along the Nile River valley regarding pottery. I WILL make a thread on this as soon as I have enough time.

A cattle cult, which is seen along the Nile River and East Africa, was present in Nubia. Also, Nabta Playa, which has already been touched on by a few ATS members here,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

shows that there is an astronomical connection with the belt of Orion, way before the construction of the Giza pyramids, which also aligned up with Orion's belt. What's with the ancients' fascination about Orion, especially Sirius? There are religious ties that Nabta Playa has relating to ancient Egypt, for example:



By the 6th millennium BC, evidence of a prehistoric religion or cult appears, with a number of sacrificed cattle buried in stone-roofed chambers lined with clay. It has been suggested that the associated cattle cult indicated in Nabta Playa marks an early evolution of Ancient Egypt's Hathor cult. For example, Hathor was worshipped as a nighttime protector in desert regions. To directly quote professors Wendorf and Schild: '... there are many aspects of political and ceremonial life in the Predynastic and Old Kingdom that reflects a strong impact from Saharan cattle pastoralists... Nevertheless, though the religious practices of the region involving cattle suggest ties to Ancient Egypt. Egyptologist Mark Lehner cautions: 'It makes sense, but not in a facile, direct way. You can't go straight from these megaliths to the pyramid of Djoser.' Circular stone structure at Nabta Other subterranean complexes are also found in Nabta Playa, one of which included evidence of perhaps an early Egyptian attempt at sculpture.


It makes sense that you cannot go directly from Nabta Playa to the pyramid of Djoser. This process, if there even is one directly linking Nabta Playa to the pyramids, would come in successive, cultural developmental stages over time.

Now back to the prehistory of Nubia. There is evidence to support the notion that Nubians actually are responsible for the first unification process.



Around 3300 BC, there is evidence of a unified kingdom, as shown by the finds at Qustul, that maintained substantial interactions (both cultural and genetic) with the culture of Naqadan Upper Egypt. The Nubian culture may have even contributed to the unification of the Nile valley. Also, the Nubians very likely contributed some pharaonic iconography, such as the white crown and serekh, to the Northern Egyptian kings. Around the turn of the protodynastic period, Naqada, in its bid to conquer and unify the whole Nile valley, seems to have conquered Ta-Seti (the kingdom where Qustul was located) and harmonized it with the Egyptian state. Thus, Nubia became the first nome of Upper Egypt.


With the start of the Old Kingdom, Lower Nubia (Northern part) was mentioned as a trading partner. The ancient Egyptians imported items like gold, incense, ebony, ivory, and exotic animals from tropical Africa through Nubia. The result of this led to the development of Kingdoms in Nubia. At the time, the Old Kingdom was mostly focusing on the development of a strong political state and pyramid building for their deceased kings, who were revered as gods. A solar and stellar cult were present during this time. The solar cult continued, however there was a steady decline in the workmanship of the pyramids, with burial sites no longer as grandiose as they once were. Right after the decline of the Old Kingdom, which was due to the rise in numerous nomarchs inevitably creating conflicts between neighboring provinces or possibly the low inundation of the Nile River resulting in lower crop yields, the 1st Intermediate Period started. This period which spanned from the 7th Dynasty to the 10th Dynasty, with part of the 11th Dynasty (circa 2181-2055 BC), was a period often described as "dark" and divided the ruling power into two competing powers. One of those bases resided at Heracleopolis in Lower Egypt while the other resided at Thebes in Upper Egypt. Here is a picture of all the nomes (a subnational administrative division) to give you a good idea:



Temples were pillaged and violated, along with the statues of kings being broken or destroyed as a result of this alleged political chaos. These two kingdoms would eventually come into conflict, with the Theban kings conquering the north, resulting in reunification, for a SECOND time. I put emphasis on this, because this will be a reoccurring theme. These kings were known as the "keepers of the Door of the South".



The end of the First Intermediate Period is placed at the time when Mentuhotep II of the eleventh dynasty defeats the Heracleopolitan kings of Lower Egypt and reunites Egypt under a single ruler. This act helps usher in a period of great wealth and prosperity, known as the Middle Kingdom.




posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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The rise of the 12th Dynasty was a prosperous revival of ancient Egyptian culture.

Mentuhotep II


This comes from the prophecy of Neferti:

“Then a king will come from the South,
Ameny, the justified, my name,
Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt,
He will take the white crown, he will join the Two Mighty Ones
(the two crowns)

Asiatics will fall to his sword,
Libyans will fall to his flame,
Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him,
One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler,
To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt…”



During the Egyptian Middle Kingdom (circa 2040-1640 BC), Egypt began expanding into Nubia to gain more control over the trade routes in Northern Nubia and direct access to trade with Southern Nubia. They erected a chain of forts down the Nile below the Second Cataract. These garrisons seemed to have peaceful relations with the local Nubian people but little interaction during the period.


Here are some pictures of statues from the Middle Kingdom:







Egyptian kings often hired the renowned archers of Nubia for their armies. Many of these mercenary soldiers settled in Egypt, married Egyptian women, and were buried in the Egyptian manner, but they still proudly maintained their Nubian identity. This limestone grave marker from Jebelein in Upper Egypt depicts a Nubian soldier named Nenu holding his bow and arrows; beside him is his wife, wearing the close-fitting linen dress typical of Egyptian women. Nenu has a short, curly, Nubian hairstyle and close-cropped beard and wears a kilt tied with a characteristically Nubian leather sash. In the upper right, an Egyptian servant presents a bowl of beer. Dogs are often included on the stelae of Nubian soldiers, suggesting the great affection they had for these pets.
As seen BELOW:





Ancient Egypt then fell into disarray for a second time, during the 2nd Intermediate Period, with the invasion of the Hyksos comprised of the 15th and 16th dynasties. The brilliant golden age of the 12th dynasty came to an end, thus twisting Egypt into another state of turmoil. Again, another resurgence came from the south.



Around the time Memphis and Itj-tawy fell to the Hyksos, the native Egyptian ruling house in Thebes declared its independence from the vassal dynasty in Itj-tawy and set itself up as the seventeenth dynasty. This dynasty was to prove the salvation of Ancient Egypt and eventually would lead the war of liberation that drove the Hyksos back into Asia. The two last kings of this dynasty were Tao II the Brave and Kamose, who traditionally are credited with the final defeat of the Hyksos.


The kings at the capital of Thebes, with the help of the Ta-Setian warriors who were enlisted in the Egyptian army helped reclaim the Northern parts of Egypt unifying Egypt for a THIRD time.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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After that, emerged the New Kingdom Dynasties. Being Egypt’s most prosperous time and it marked the peak of its power, most likely having the closest ties with Nubia. Nubian wigs were popular during this period along with many Nubians holding positions of high status in the Egyptian government. Even marriage between a Nubian and Egyptian was not shunned upon and was embraced. The expansion of Egyptian territory spread greatly during this period. There was always expenditures sent to the Land of Punt (also done during the 6th, 11th and 12th dynasties from recorded sources left to us). The Land of Punt was referred to the Egyptians as “The Land of the Gods” and also (by older literature) the ancestral homeland of the Ancient Egyptians.

This map shows the extent of Egyptian territory during the New Kingdom:




Egyptian chronology of this period highlights the strong presence of Ku#es in the Egyptian government and military structure. In the Egyptian army the Ku#es fought as independent units and Ku#e leaders played essential rolls shaping the history of Egypt. For example, the Ku#e military general, Dedu, who served under Tuthmosis III, lead the Medjay-Nubians to crush a revolt in the Egyptian territory of Kadesh in Syria.



Nubia's history was closely intertwined with that of its neighbor, Egypt: social, political, religious, and artistic ideas moved back and forth as each country conquered or was conquered by the other. This was not a racial differentiation, but a political one between the Nubians & Egyptians. For example, take a look at this picture:



This is Ramses II charging against Nubians during the 19th Dynasty. Roughly half of the Nubians are painted with the same skin tone as the Egyptian King. The only thing this amounts to is that Ramses II had the same skin color as roughly half the Nubians from the artist's perspective.

Towards the end of the New Kingdom, Egypt’s state was slowly losing power due to the culmination of battles fought and the 3rd intermediate Period began with the firmly reunification of the land, once again (a FOURTH time, however by Libyans). Stability was soon brought to an end by the conflict and bickering of the proclamation of who was king between the Libyans. The Nubians saw this is an opportunity to seize hold of the state themselves. Around 727 BC the Ku#e king Piye invaded northward, seizing control of Thebes and eventually the Delta.




Taharqo was the son of Piye and the first seventeen years of his reign were very prosperous for Kush. Pharaoh Taharqo spent half his time as ruler of Egypt restoring its earlier cultural achievements while also fending off Assyrian power in the east.





Why the Ku#es chose to enter Egypt at this crucial point of foreign domination is subject to debate. Archaeologist Timmothy Kendall offers his own hypotheses, connecting it to a claim of legitimacy associated with Gebel Barkal. Kendall cites the stele of Pharaoh Piye, which states that "Amun of Napata granted me to be ruler of every foreign country," and "Amun in Thebes granted me to be ruler of the Black Land (Kmt)". Noteworthy is that according to Kendall, "foreign lands" in this regard seems to include Lower Egypt while Kmt seems to refer to a united Upper Egypt and Nubia.


What’s important to mention is the construction of the Meroë pyramids. Obviously the Nubians reigning during that time were influenced by the pyramid building of the Egyptians dating back to antiquity. The site of the city of Meroë is marked by more than two hundred pyramids in three groups, of which many are in ruins. Although the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty did not control Egypt for very long, it holds an important place in Egyptian history due to the restoration of traditional Egyptian values, culture, art, and architecture. The 25th dynasty likely influenced Greek visitors. Herodotus wrote that the Aethiopians (Greek name for Kush) may have been the most ancient people on Earth and that Egypt was founded from Ethiopia. Herodotus also posited that the Greek gods originated in Ethiopia (e.g. Homer's references to the gods going to Ethiopia to convene). It's likely that Herodotus' claims were inspired by 25th dynasty inscriptions. It's known that the 25th Dynasty rulers restored many ancient texts.

And there's even a study done (from 2009) stating that there are genetic similarities between the Nubians & ancient Egyptians.




Sources:

www.ancientsudan.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
billygambelaafroasiaticanthropology.wordpress.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
wysinger.homestead.com...
edit on 11/9/2011 by IEtherianSoul9 because: (no reason given)
edit on 11/9/2011 by IEtherianSoul9 because: (no reason given)
edit on 11/9/2011 by IEtherianSoul9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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I have an excellant video to add to your thread in relation to this.....trying to find it and will post it here shortly.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 10:48 PM
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I'm going to upload some video footage I got while I was in Aswan/Abu Simbel (Nubia) and photos with your permission. I could go on all day about this subject. I visited Egypt in June of 2001, 03 and 04, stayed over 6 weeks on each trip. Egypt's true history is definitely not taught right and has been twisted to say the least.

I'm extremely proud of all the work you put into this OP. I'll be back after I gather what I have.

SnF OP




posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1
 


Isnt Abu simbel in Egyprt ?

Ohhh its their Neighbours like next door ....


Abu Simbel temples refers to two massive rock temples in Abu Simbel (أبو سمبل in Arabic) in Nubia, southern Egypt on the western bank of Lake Nasser about 230 km southwest of Aswan (about 300 km by road). The complex is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site known as the "Nubian Monuments,"[1] which run from Abu Simbel downriver to Philae (near Aswan).

The twin temples were originally carved out of the mountainside during the reign of Pharaoh Ramesses II in the 13th century BC, as a lasting monument to himself and his queen Nefertari, to commemorate his alleged victory at the Battle of Kadesh, and to intimidate his Nubian neighbors. However, the complex was relocated in its entirety in 1968, on an artificial hill made from a domed structure, high above the Aswan High Dam reservoir.
edit on 9-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
I'm going to upload some video footage I got while I was in Aswan/Abu Simbel (Nubia) and photos with your permission. I could go on all day about this subject. I visited Egypt in June of 2001, 03 and 04, stayed over 6 weeks on each trip. Egypt's true history is definitely not taught right and has been twisted to say the least.

I'm extremely proud of all the work you put into this OP. I'll be back after I gather what I have.

SnF OP



No thanks to Zahi Hawass. He is a skilled and well learned man, but he is in denial. I've seen archeaological proof that the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrew yet he maintains it didn't happen even with the evidence right in front of his face with Simcha Jacobovici (Archeaologist) pointing it out to him.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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Alot of afro american people say they built them but thats just them trying to take credit for something Aliens may have done ....But they make good music tho
edit on 9-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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oops offensive material
edit on 9-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


What evidence is there supporting your claim that Hebrews were enslaved by the ancient Egyptians?

Are there any sources you have?



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


What evidence is there supporting your claim that Hebrews were enslaved by the ancient Egyptians?

Are there any sources you have?




Slavery was a nubian thing too ! Honest Abe set them free dont you remember history class ?



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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So the Nubian are the Best Haha
edit on 9-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by Mandelbrot2012
 


Can you do me a favor and throw away whatever electronic device you're using at the moment. Cause with all this nonsense you're typing up, you won't need it. I'm an African American and I don't agree with ethnocentric view points. The ancient Egyptians were definitely AFRICAN and the general population of Egypt during the 3,000 years it lasted was DIVERSE. "Fried Chicken", are racist stereotypes really necessary for this thread?
edit on 11/9/2011 by IEtherianSoul9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by Mandelbrot2012
 


Can you do me a favor and throw away whatever electronic device you're using at the moment. Cause with all this nonsense you're typing up, you don't need it. I'm an African American and nor am I an Afrocentrist. I don't agree with ethnocentric view points. The ancient Egyptians were definitely AFRICAN and the general population of Egypt during the 3,000 years it lasted was DIVERSE. "Fried Chicken", are racist stereotypes really necessary for this thread?




The pyramids were not built by Nubians and or africans ......The were built by a civilization which did not divide itself racially or relligiously the fact they could look past this shows us there was a different level of society we are nowhere near .....you are saying it was one race the nubians ......You are wrong it was one race the HUMAN RACE .....and we may have had help from our gods !!!Demons Nephilm watchers whatever



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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S & F

This is a very well thought out and illustrated post. Thank you for taking the time and for the attention to detail. These are the types of threads which drew me to ATS in the first place.

Excellent job, well done.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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I am glad you are a proud Nubian but we are all one race we are all nubian I guess !!!!



One thing is for sure Nubians or Anglo saxons are not superior to any other race !!!!!



Peace ! Remeber we are all one race!!!! you me the Nubians all of us brother and religion is a tool used for ages to divide small minded man (not all of us) and to create conflict and misunderstanding .....TOWER OF BABEL read about it man we all are one
edit on 9-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)


TOWER OF BABEL
The story explains the confusion of tongues: variation in human language. The story's theme of competition between the Lord and humans appears elsewhere in Genesis, in the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.[3] The first century Jewish interpretation found in Flavius Josephus explains the construction of the tower as a hubristic act of defiance against God ordered by the arrogant tyrant Nimrod. There have, however, been some contemporary challenges to this classical interpretation, with emphasis placed on the explicit motive of cultural and linguistic homogeneity mentioned in the narrative (v. 1, 4, 6)[4]. This reading of the text sees God's actions as not a punishment for pride but as an etiology of cultural differences, presenting Babel as the cradle of civilization
edit on 10-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)


This reading of the text sees God's actions as not a punishment for pride but as an etiology of cultural differences, presenting Babel as the cradle of civilization
edit on 10-11-2011 by Mandelbrot2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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Nubian pyramids were constructed (roughly 220 of them) at three sites in Sudan to serve as tombs for the kings and queens of Napata and Meroë. The pyramids of Kush, also known as Nubian Pyramids, have different characteristics than the pyramids of Egypt. The Nubian pyramids were constructed at a steeper angle than Egyptian ones. They were monuments to dead kings and queens



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
I'm going to upload some video footage I got while I was in Aswan/Abu Simbel (Nubia) and photos with your permission. I could go on all day about this subject. I visited Egypt in June of 2001, 03 and 04, stayed over 6 weeks on each trip. Egypt's true history is definitely not taught right and has been twisted to say the least.

I'm extremely proud of all the work you put into this OP. I'll be back after I gather what I have.

SnF OP



You're extremely lucky to have visited Egypt/Sudan and I'd love to see the footage you have! And you are right about the history of Egypt being twisted and changed so much that it no longer even resembles what it once was. I hate all of this ethnocentric disinformation which is present on the internet nowadays. Especially on Youtube, with videos pertaining to ancient Egypt, there are so many racist and negative comments.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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Well, for a moment there I thought I was in a Slayer69 thread.
I had to check twice, S&F for you.
Good job, very interesting post.



posted on Nov, 10 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by IEtherianSoul9
 


Here's that link I mentioned earlier, well worth a watch:

youtu.be...

enjoy!






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