Taxing Sales on the Internet...., page 1

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Topic started on 9-11-2011 @ 06:51 PM by JacKatMtn

I don't have an issue with sales within a state, (seller/purchaser) being a vehicle for generating state sales tax, but it looks like our friends in Congress, along with support from MAJOR retailers, are looking to sneak in legislation to the SUPER Committee deal that is supposed to be done prior to Thanksgiving...

www.reuters.com

State governments would be able to collect online sales taxes under a bill due to be introduced in the Senate on Wednesday, said sources familiar with the bill.

Supporters of the online sales tax collection requirement include Wal-Mart Stores Inc, Target Corp and other "big box" retailers who argue they are at a disadvantage against online-only competitors.

A bipartisan group of up to seven senators will introduce the bill, which is broader than similar legislation introduced in the Senate in July. The new bill will differ from a bill in the House of Representatives by affecting more small businesses under a lower exemption threshold, the sources said.

more here:

Senator Durbin: online sales tax bill can pass

From the EX sourced piece...

Backers of the new bill say state and local governments will lose $24 billion in uncollected sales taxes in 2012 without the power to tax Web transactions.

They won't lose anything, here is another case of the elected projecting losses on a tax that doesn't even exist...

More like... Look at how much $$$ we can take from the country if we PASS this new Law!

Nice way to put the squeeze on more small businesses, and keep your corporate lobby happy..

Throw the bums out!!! 2012... if we make it that far..

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 09:14 PM by JacKatMtn

In related news...

check this out...

White House Sidelines Christmas Tree 'Tax'

The White House has decided to sideline a proposed fee on Christmas trees, after the fee was ridiculed by critics as a tax on Christmas.
The 15-cent tax on Christmas trees was announced Tuesday in the Federal Register and was meant to pay for a new board tasked with promoting the Christmas tree industry. It was supported by Christmas tree growers, who wanted a stable source of revenue to fund a new marketing campaign.

Do we really need a Federal board created to promote the Christmas tree industry?

I think not... if the Christmas tree industry wants to designate 15 cents a tree and create their own promotional group, more power to you!... That's called a marketing decision.. the FEDERAL government shouldn't be part of your marketing dept...

crazy

edit on Wed, 09 Nov 2011 21:17:29 -0600 by JacKatMtn because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 09:30 PM by Blackmarketeer

The Amazon.com debacle was a good indicator the direction this was heading in. Big-box retailers and most states are making the big push for this.

BTW, Obama had nothing to do with the "Christmas Tree" tax - that is just bad reporting and partisan histrionics from the spin-masters at Fox.

White House spokesman Matt Lehrich told ABC News that despite some media coverage, “I can tell you unequivocally that the Obama Administration is not taxing Christmas trees. What’s being talked about here is an industry group deciding to impose fees on itself to fund a promotional campaign, similar to how the dairy producers have created the ‘Got Milk?’ campaign.” ABCnews.com

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 09:37 PM by JacKatMtn

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

That was in the article I linked.. and it was a proposed deal by the USDA... under the Fed gov't umbrella...

Don't mind me though, I am not fed up with Obama, I am fed up with everyone in DC..

It's a non partisan deal for me...

My mantra for 2012..

"Throw the bums out... ALL OF THEM!!! "

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 09:44 PM by BigJoninTexas

I think this is a good thing. Think about it. Every time you purchase something online and don't pay taxes, you rob your local community of revenue that they can use to pump back into your community. Is it really worth it to rob your neighbors to save a few bucks? It doesn't matter if it is a big box store or a small business, every time you choose to purchase online, you rob your community. Duh!

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 09:53 PM by JacKatMtn

reply to post by BigJoninTexas

How are you robbing your community? There is no law...

They want to CREATE a LAW to MAKE you PAY TAX on online purchases..

Who's robbing who?

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:04 PM by BigJoninTexas

reply to post by JacKatMtn

There are two main reasons people choose to purchase goods online: price and conveneince. The prices are cheaper because there is no sales tax. Everytime you choose to be cheap and use online stores to save your sales tax, you risk the chance of putting your neighbor who works at a local store out of a job. No revenue for your community equals no job. I'm sorry you can't fathom this. However, if all your neighbors owned online stores then your community would be doing great with the current tax code.

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:05 PM by Ahabstar

reply to post by JacKatMtn

Let the babies have their tax...I am only lacking a few items from being able to pack up and head for the deep woods. I think the sign on the edge of land I claim should read "Ahead is the last bastion of freedom. Death to those that wish to take it."

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:11 PM by JacKatMtn

reply to post by BigJoninTexas

I have to disagree... there are more than enough taxes paid by the populace..

It's the lack of fiscal discipline on the part of the elected, to spend those monies responsibly...

Solve that problem first... then we can talk about more taxes

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:15 PM by BigJoninTexas

reply to post by JacKatMtn

Hey I hate taxes trust me I pay enough, over 50%. As a business owner, I would rather pay my sales tax in my community ensuring that my money stays within and helps my neighbors keep their jobs. It's not always a good thing to save a buck!

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:20 PM by JacKatMtn

reply to post by BigJoninTexas

As a business owner, perhaps the issue is not the lack of taxes on internet sales, but more the overburdened taxes that you are forced to pay?

Just asking...

If you were taxed less, do you think that you could grow your business? and possibly expand= more employees?

Would you be able to handle the money better than the folks who collect the tax?

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:27 PM by BigJoninTexas

reply to post by JacKatMtn

Of course I would use my tax savings to grow my business, pay my employees more, and hire more people, but that is not what this piece of legislation is addressing. It is addressing the unfair advantage that online stores have by not paying sales tax. If normal businesses didn't have to pay sales tax than there wouldn't be a problem, but we do. This legislation is trying to level the playing field. I never purchase anything online that I can't find in my community, I want to support my neighbors. Do you really want to support Amazon.com? Do you know anyone that works there?

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:41 PM by JacKatMtn

reply to post by BigJoninTexas

I can understand your angle, but I can't help but see this as a way to increase revenue in a way that won't really help your business.. sure it sounds like it would level the playing field, but in reality...

add the sales tax... do you think that would drive more consumers to your business?

If I can sit at home, shop, purchase and have delivered a product for the same or less than having to fire up the car for a trip to town and (at least for me), spend an hour in drive time compared to 5 minutes of surfing the web...

Granted, I don't know what your particular business is, maybe it's not conducive to investing in online expansion, so I cannot just say "easy solution!!!" invest in the online market and take advantage of the internet customers!..

I don't have an answer for you on that, I just think that TAXING the new way to buy and sell goods in the guise of helping the old way of buying and selling isn't a good argument..

There's a reason why WalMart and Amazon are in favor of this.... both of them are already HUGE ONLINE sellers, this tax would only help to make sure that they will be the major players in cyberspace for consumer goods... they are already BIG enough to absorb the impact of an internet sales tax..

I have to say no to taxing, but I can understand your view on this as well

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 10:57 PM by BigJoninTexas

reply to post by JacKatMtn

Thank you for understanding the advantage online stores have over your community stores. You are right after leveling the playing field with taxes some people will utilize the other advantage which is how convenient it is to buy something on your computer. Granted I don't own a store, I am an American manufacturer and the sales tax does not apply to my business, this is a personal choice. This is how I see it. I employ Americans to fabricate my product instead of outsource it to China. When I buy something from my hometown I get the feeling of keeping jobs here. When you buy online in some other state, you are outsourcing your money which could go to someone in your town. That is my ultimate point. What is the difference between your decision to outsource your money compared to a corporate giant outsourcing an American job to China. Think about it.

reply posted on 9-11-2011 @ 11:09 PM by JacKatMtn

reply to post by BigJoninTexas

I understand your pain... as a manufacturer in the US, you have been put at a disadvantage by the US government...

The guise is the open global market...

They used to protect businesses like yours, to level the playing field, with import tariffs to eliminate the production cost advantage that some countries have over the standards that US manufacturers have to uphold...

I applaud you for continuing to manufacture in the US..

It's time that our elected start to protect and free the US based businesses from the handcuff of this Global Free Trade BS..

Hang in there, for me personally, I have seen a trend towards getting rid of those folks.... next November is KEY..

Throw the bums out and bring on some folks ( on both sides of the aisle) who will listen to the folks instead of global interests... enough is enough..

edit on Wed, 09 Nov 2011 23:11:26 -0600 by JacKatMtn because: clarity..

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 12:01 AM by Ahabstar

But here is the real rub. Who gets the tax? I could set up an internet company that sells items that are drop shipped from a location nowhere near me. If I collect the tax (an assuming I am honest enough to report it) I can legally retain 0.5% of the 6.5% Ohio State sales tax (last I looked) provided I file and pay by January 31 and have less than $500,000 in sales.

Now, here is the rub. Under Ohio law, I have to collect the tax rate for the county of the purchaser. Preble County is 7.5%, Butler County (where I reside is 6.5%) Hamilton County is 7% and so on. Again, I am only responsible for 6.5% for the State and it would be up to me and my records to specifically earmark differing tax collection for the various counties and express the total amounts that should be distributed to the various counties by the state. Again, for early filing I can retain 0.5% of sales tax collected.

But if my warehouse that my products are drop shipped from is in Texas, should not they receive some tax appropriations? After all, they are the ones actually shipping based on my order. Keep in mind business to business transaction such as what I describe are traditionally exempt from sales taxes despite method of the sale (phone, email, online form).

Now if the order was conducted in such a way that I was a middleman in a business to business transaction...no sales tax would be collected by the shipper, myself no the end user until they retailed the product. Provided that the product was not sold on a person to person transaction. Similar to if I was to buy a firearm off of you.

And this is just the craziness with Ohio law. Adding the complexities of 49 other states into the mix can make the whole thing become a nightmare.

Ultimately the end goal is to have more brick and mortar businesses do the selling of products to the consumer. The immediate effects of this tax will be felt by Fed Ex, UPS and USPS employees, via lost jobs. And people make the argument that taxes do not hurt workers.

reply posted on 10-11-2011 @ 12:18 AM by Blackmarketeer

reply to post by Ahabstar

Yeah this would be a huge snake's nest, not too mention most of those big box retailers also have online sales, so this would turn around and punish them too. States already get their share of taxes from the shipping industries that deliver online sales.

Mail-order catalogs never had to collect taxes for sales from telephone orders outside their home states, so why treat internet sales any different? Companies flocked to states like Delaware or Nevada just to avoid sales taxes, now they'll have to compute sales tax for 50 states, multiplied by the thousands of varying rates by counties?

Nightmare. This is just naked greed.

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