Now what a story this is! ..what a doctor said infront of an abortion

Last time I checked - - a major problem in the world is children abandoned by their fathers

reply to post by Annee


Hm, not taking sides but this is not that uncommon umongst primates

reply to post by RainbeauBleu

That doctor is not a real person.This is just a fable made up by pro-lifers to pass around the internet in an attempt to continue pushing their views onto others.

Originally posted by Natame
Ok im sorry but i guess i have issues with this... a womans body is hers and hers alone. I have had three wonderful children and i know i would never have aborted them. But i also believe a woman has the right to choose her fate. I do understand the fact that a baby once conceived is alive. But knowing that there is alot of different reasons that a woman could or would want to terminate that said pregnancy is her CHOICE. I would never dictate to anyone that wanted to have a tattoo or plastic surgery, to have a cancer removed or life threatening surgery..Your body belongs to you... only you have that choice to do what you will with it.

If you truly beleived this then you would advocate the legalization of drugs for personal use.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


No-one is trying to silence you... at least not me. Minorities are great, and I am glad we live in a world that generally allows the views of minorities. Almost all of us are in at least one minority group, and that helps keep things in perspective for everyone.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
That is why Murder is illegal and murderers are put in prison...we don't think they are fit to be part of society.

Also, abortion isn't considered murder by the larger society, the scientific community or our elected ruling bodies, and isn't illegal in most places.

Biology literature has almost nothing to say on abortion... biology as a branch of science doesn't seem to hold much of an opinion on abortion overall. Biology has defined the start of organism growth as the first act of reproduction, whether that be sexual or asexual reproduction. However beyond that biological definition, the biologists have passed the torch to medicine, ethics, law and philosophy, which are fields that have much to say on the matter, and there is no biological rebuttal to the larger ethical issues in biology literature... because it is not their realm of study.

From an earlier post of yours:

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Puzzlesphere
I suppose you believe in no sex before marriage, and never had sex before marriage yourself?

No and no...but thanks for making more assumptions.

It was more of a question than an assumption, hence the question mark, though you are right the question was half phrased as an assumption, so I apologise... but I think you will find that is the only half-assumption I have made in this thread. Nor have I made any personal attacks.

Thanks for your answers... so does this mean that you think people should only have recreational sex if they are ready and willing to have a child, even with protection?

If your answer is yes, then I am thankful we are in a society that allows you your opinion, but that lets the majority decide on the laws for the many. In this case the laws (based on a range of opinions, research and science over many years) have developed in favour of early term termination.

You are getting very heated over this subject, and throwing out some opinions and responses that are verging on rudeness, and you are not really respecting my opinion even though I have clearly stated that I respect your opinion, multiple times. Your behaviour makes me not want to converse with you on this topic anymore.

In the end, you are in a minority on this issue, as you have stated yourself, and the majority has defined the ethics and legality of the issue. You can disagree all you want, and even lobby for change based on biological basis if you would like; that is your right to free speech.

We can argue forever on this, so as I have tried to politely do in previous posts, we will have to agree to disagree.

Cheers

reply to post by Propulsion


That is true for a brain-dead entity outside of the womb, though inside the womb the organism (similar to a parasite) is completely sustained by the woman’s body. Brain cells only start to develop at around 6 weeks (and the organism is still sustained), so before then there is definitively no brain function, after brain cells have started to develop electrical impulses can start to be detected, though as has been posted multiple times in this thread, from a peer reviewed paper from a respected journal, actual brain waves don't develop until around the 20th week.

Cheers

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Natame

 

Sorry but I have a problem with this statement you said:

a womans body is hers and hers alone

A woman's body belongs to God along with every human body. The body is a vessel for the soul and when you accept Christ the holy spirit comes and resides in you.

1 Corinthians 6:19 'What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?'

We simply do not have the right to be murdering an innocent life inside of us, where God has granted that life a purpose, abortion is murder, murder on a mass scale is genocide, abortion has become the holocaust of the 21st century.

Your way of thinking is disturbing to say the least. Feminism is a curse and any woman that thinks they have the right to murder an innocent child has absolutely no moral compass at all. Why murder a child when you can give it away for adoption? this is disgusting and needs to stop. People simply do not value human life anymore. How would you feel if you was murdered in the womb with your brains sucked through your skull and you was never given a chance in life and you could do nothing about it? This needs to stop today before more innocent lives are murdered.

edit on 10-11-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

And I have a problem with your entire response. Once again a hypocritical christian is attempting to subvert the free will that your so called deity gave to every human that he supposedly created. Thank you so much for applying your personal moral outlook onto the rest of humanity. I would wager that you are not aware that people who think the way you do are the ones who cause the most harm on this planet.

Your way of thinking is disturbing to say the least. You project your personal religious beliefs onto everyone. How closed minded are you? You don't seem to even acknowledge that there are people on this planet that have beliefs that differ from yours. Or, if you do, that they are somehow lesser sub-humans for not bowing down to your kingdom.

You say that your deity creates life for a purpose. Have you considered that an aborted life may have been created for that very purpose? You see...anyone can interpret what some deity says anyhow they want. I'll tell you how I would feel if I was aborted inside the womb. I would feel nothing at all because I would not have the ability to understand the concept of life. You make many assumptions purely for dramatic effect.

My spirit belongs to no one. Most certainly not your phantom deity. A woman that chooses to abort has nothing to be guilty over. I explained in an earlier post on this thread why. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt but I believe you would not be able to comprehend it. Please prove me wrong.

I say that an abortion is not murder. Please..PLEASE provide to me reasons why you believe so without basing your entire argument on an archaic text. Think for yourself and stop using quotes from a book to dictate your way of thinking. If you can't do that why should anyone take you seriously?

Originally posted by ChristianJihad

Last time I checked - - a major problem in the world is children abandoned by their fathers

reply to post by Annee

 

Hm, not taking sides but this is not that uncommon umongst primates

I realize humans are primates - - but we have evolved just a tad bit more (arguable sometimes).

reply to post by Annee

I realize humans are primates - - but we have evolved just a tad bit more (arguable sometimes).

Or devolved...because a lot of our females kill their children.

I don't even think other primates do that.

Originally posted by violet
reply to post by RainbeauBleu

 

That doctor is not a real person.This is just a fable made up by pro-lifers to pass around the internet in an attempt to continue pushing their views onto others.

But pro-lifers would kill the living in order to make their point!

Originally posted by boaby_phet

sorry, i think you will find that SCIENCE actually proves that i DO know what i am on about!

its you who is the blind idiot who refuses to believe science!

Really?... Let's take a recap at the idiocies you claim are "BACKED BY HARD SCIENCE"...

Originally posted by boaby_phet

you are the one that needs to rethink your motives and arguments... during the first trimester science... not god, or hearsay... but HARD SCIENCE says that what is in the womb is a parasitic grouping of cells, no intelligence, no feeling, not even any instinct. The above quote you poo poo'd on is actualy fact and is fact according to SCIENCE!

CARE to show us proof that "a fetus in the womb is a parasitic grouping of cells, no intelligence, no feeling, and not even instinct"?...

In case you didn't know a fetus stays inside the womb normally for 12 months. At already 9 weeks the head is about half the size of the fetus, and there is already, no matter how small, function in the brain.

It is a KNOWN FACT that a baby still in the womb does react to the outside environment the mother is subject to...

A fetus/baby is not an extension of the mother, it is the result of the union of two people of opposite sexes but it is a different human being from the father or the mother.

Originally posted by boaby_phet
and ... you are a hypocrite and therefore not worth listening too!

Really?... wow, yeah that's all the proof you need huh?...

Originally posted by boaby_phet
*pop* ... im out! I can only hit with ignorance for so much time (maybe an hour) per day before it starts to physicaly annoy me!
#

Ignorance seems to be your middle name, so you better get used to it...

Originally posted by RainbeauBleu

But pro-lifers would kill the living in order to make their point!

Only a extreme faction of pro-lifers do this. We leave the killing to the "pro-choice crowd"... You do that very well and EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK...

But keep laughing about it, we know exactly how you feel about this topic...

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Or devolved...because a lot of our females kill their children.

I don't even think other primates do that.

edit on 10-11-2011 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)

Oh yes they do...

ALL species have good and bad parents, as well as good and bad relatives or strangers of the same species which have, and do kill the young of their own species.

Link

Behavior: Animals That Kill Their Young

Monday, Jan. 09, 1978

For India's langur monkeys, infanticide works

In his classic work On Aggression, Nobel Laureate Konrad Lorenz argued that man is the only species that regularly kills its own kind. This concept, which contrasted the order and restraint in the animal world with the chaotic aggressiveness of man. reflected the mood of the time: the shadow-of-the-Bomb pessimism of the '50s and early '60s. But Lorenz was wrong; since 1963, when his book was published, naturalists have identified dozens of species that kill their own, including lions, hippos, bears, wolves, hyenas, herring gulls and more than...

www.time.com...

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1
reply to post by Mimir

 

It seems you really dont care about human life vs animals, plants insects. You probably think that we must co-exist for no reason with other creatures, and life has no meaning to it. Also im assuming you agree with Stephen Hawking that human emotions and thought patters are just random chemical reactions in our brain, and that we have no apparent soul or spirit. Im also assuming that you believe we all came into existance somehow by evolution? By random and sequential occurances of billions of creatures dying for the fittest to survive over billions of years, making us no better than a fly since we all came from the same substance from no apparent reason from an explosion no one can mimic because its impossible to duplicate? Its people like you that cause abortions to happen, because you think the unborn are bulk trash thats an inconvience to your unmoral life. You will one day, find out your actions will be paid, and not the good payback either.

An old saying that goes with your last sentance. Karma is a bitch.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


it's just what i think is logical, i dont think people are having abortions for fun do you?

reply to post by Seektruthalways1

Hitler's Hit list of races:

Nordic (blond, blue eyed…...…. Close to Pure Aryan
Germanic ………………….… Predominantly Aryan (brown hair, blue-eyed or, less desirable brown-eyed
Mediterranean ………………………… Slightly Aryan
Slavic …………………..Close to half-Aryan, half-Ape
Oriental ………………… Slight Ape preponderance
Black African ……...….……….… Predominantly Ape
Jewish (fiendish skull) ..…………. Close to pure Ape

I know it's not really a funny issue but i almost died laughing at:

Jewish (fiendish skull) ..…………. Close to pure Ape

Shows you how ignorant Hitler as about genetics . Racists can be so funny sometimes.

"Point and get your seven chuckles"-Katt Williams

reply to post by heineken
This is nothing more than copypasta of the same cheesy quality and medieval mentality as the readings offered in religious pamphlets thrown at my doorstep.

The world is not as simple as before, an unplanned and/or unwanted child is basically an enormous bill, instead of paper and ink it's flesh and blood but it's still an amazing expense. Not everyone has the money to maintain this other being, nor the right mentality to raise it.

Some of these situations are caused by carelessness, others through crime, you still cannot expect the rest of the world to welcome all of its problems with open arms and embrace them. You're basically saying that we should be like the lesser educated and/or highly-moralistic families that are born in poverty yet they keep having every single baby they convenience.

If you can't/don't want to feed or raise a child, don't have it. The world's overpopulated so adding more random "oopses" isn't the best way to go about it.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Annee

 

I realize humans are primates - - but we have evolved just a tad bit more (arguable sometimes).

Or devolved...because a lot of our females kill their children.

I don't even think other primates do that.]

Perhaps you should have read the original post - - that instigated the response.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

I'll ask you the same thing I've asked others, on a biology test when there is a question that says "When does animal life begin?" Is the correct answer "conception/fertilization" or is it some other point in the development of the organism???

Just because you believe the process of life begins at fertilization, doesn't make it human being. But arguing with you is pointless, this is your opinion, and your interpretation of what biology says. Apparently, according to yours and afew others criteria, everybody else should follow it. I don’t know why you think this is going to be the case. People must follow your views and standards because you think it's fact? You're not going to convince folks on the opposite end that way.

As a side note, there are many folks who believe a fertilized egg is a human in every way, but they also believe that abortion is ultimately the choice of a woman. Just because you hold this belief doesn’t take away that choice.

No, just like I don't think there need to be laws that makes a crime scene out of everytime a human life ends. Life ends all the time...there are a lot of different reasons why. Someone can die from being sick, not a crime scene, someone can die from falling, not a crime scene...but if that person was pushed by someone else...yes...a crime.

So a fertilized egg can "die" for many reasons...but unless it is caused directly and deliberately by another person...it wouldn't be a crime scene.

We know a fertilized egg can die for many reasons, that wasn’t really my initial point to you. My point was, considering the number of woman out there with fertilized eggs, and the circumstances to which many of those fertilized eggs cease to exist, it is silly idea to think that the government will be able to distinguish the circumstances of all these fertilized eggs, it is the inevitability of abortion and it is a practice that has been around for centuries.

Yes, we have humans that die naturally and these incidences do not warrant actions of the law. That being said, the majority of human deaths, natural or unnatural, are suspect from the start, and are investigated. Somebody may die of a heart attack, but we may not know that without investigating, so these is standard procedure to investigate cause. This poses an implication for the law concerning fertilized eggs and their ‘human rights’. The mothers have full control, and nature has given that responsibility to their bodies. That is a fact of biology that appears to be inconvenient to folks such as yourself. You can't treat a womb as a public setting.

The laws don't have to target women at all...it targets the practice. Anyone who performs an abortion and is caught...would be guilty of a crime. Anyone who is caught getting an abortion would be guilty of a crime.

Yep, good luck with that. Essentially you propose a law that will not change the reality of abortion, it will demonize the few in society in the hopes of changing minds and minimizing abortions. As well, these laws will only serve by forcing many other women into back alleys or other dangerous methods, consequences all for the sake of your morals and ethics. Oh yes, and at the expense of tax payer money.

You act like it is an outrageous idea...and yet suicide and assited suicide is illegal...and we don't have to have "suicide police" knocking on peoples door

Actually I support the rights of people of age to go through with assisted suicide, and frankly, we don’t have enough pro-lifers who care enough for actual born human beings to propose some law to prevent this.

You are attempting to sensationalize to make the enforcement of a simple law seem unrealistic.

It is unrealistic. The rate of abortions out there, the access to contraception, the morning after pill, the ability for women to cross the borders to seek medical advice, the willingness of women to seek abortions underground, you're not going to do much to change the cycle. These laws you propose won’t do anything but showboat the agenda and ethical standards of pro-lifers like yourself, with tax payer money being thrown into the mix. You’ll harass afew women to make an example and expect these legal measures to change the cycle of abortions and those decisions of choicers. In the end what will happen will be a less sympathetic response to the pro-life movement and bigger invasive government.

The woman herself will always have the power over her own body, even during pregnancy, as nature has intended. You have your own ethical and moral standards? Well that’s only an opinion you hold, an opinion you consider ‘fact’, but an opinion in the eyes of many others.

Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by marg6043

 

hey hey hey... easy with the castration talk... some of us un-needed males are on your side... so step away from the hedge clippers please...

As far as I'm concerned this issue never get's past "it's their body". I refuse to even try to tell them what to do with it.

If it is a woman's body and her choice to give birth or not, why does it all of a sudden become a man's "responsibility", 9 months later? Or is the only reason you agree with the sentiment "her body, her choice" because you were raised to be a good little slave of the matriarchy?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by discharged77
Anything that would inconvenience the modern American women is simply thrown away, babies, husbands, etc..

Oh yeah - - here we go again. Blame women for everything.

Last time I checked - - a major problem in the world is children abandoned by their fathers.

Wow, the resident man-hater is at it again.

First sign someone is a bigot: "They make up lies to justify their bigotry".

Originally posted by Annee
Last time I checked - - a major problem in the world is children abandoned by their fathers.

Really? And the fact that Family Courts never to rarely, enforce visitations has nothing to do with the problem? Or Parental alienation? How many guy's out there know of at least 1-2 other guy's who can't see his kid's because the ex doesn't want him to and the courts won't do anything about it?

liveweb.archive.org...://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.aspx?Docid=657904&source=govdelivery
www.fathersandfamilies.org...
radicalhub.wordpress.com...
latimesblogs.latimes.com...
www.justice.gov.uk...
www.dailymail.co.uk...

The thing is, some times people are guilty of things they are blamed for.