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Senate Investigates Counterfeit Parts in Military Equipment

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posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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Senate Investigates Counterfeit Parts in Military Equipment


www.c-span.org

A Senate Armed Services Committee investigation found over a million suspect parts in the Pentagon's supply chain, mostly from China. Committee leaders say the counterfeit parts are a danger to U.S. troops and cost taxpayers
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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Not only are we outsourcing to China with taxpayer money...they are giving us counterfit parts!


This is wrong on so many levels.

Not one part, not ten parts... over a MILLION parts!


Part of America's strength is its ability to deter foes by the strength of its arsenal. What happens when China knows the arsenal is useles...because it supplied the bogus parts?

get mad!!!
This is YOUR TAXPAYER MONEY being shoveled off to China and YOUR SAFETY on the line here...Nobody in charge cares tho...just as long as they get their big contracting bucks...





www.c-span.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 9-11-2011 by Partygirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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Far as I'm concerned, there's really no way to deny that we in the U.S. need to stop trading with China. Either they're doing it deliberately or their products are just that crappy. Either way, it needs to stop.
edit on 9-11-2011 by AnIntellectualRedneck because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 01:59 AM
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On one hand, I'm reassured that we've been fighting for over 10 years with the systems they are talking about and little has gone wrong in the way the articles about this today are suggesting. It's all by the lowest bidder...but I haven't heard of helicopters falling out of the sky on a regular basis or cruise missiles going wild (very often anyway).

On the other hand....If there are inherent design flaws or even built in ones that we aren't aware of....China's position in being the producer and the PLA's very tight relation to business and production in China suggest they would know these little details. I'd think knowing precisely where to shoot a plane or tank or whatever would make up for only having to take a couple shots to get it right. Not a good thought there.

Why we ever allowed serious production of Military equipment overseas is beyond me. Some things just need to be American Made all the way down the line.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Far as I'm concerned, there's really no way to deny that we in the U.S. need to stop trading with China. Either they're doing it deliberately or their products are just that crappy. Either way, it needs to stop.



Who makes the stuff????

How much more tax are you prepared to pay to substitute for cheap Chinese labour, and how long are you prepared to wait for that production to come online?

and how are you going to persuade Republicans to support all those tax increases??!!

Good luck....



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


There's tons of factories just sitting around waiting to be taken up, and plenty of people with knowledge of manufacturing that could be trained pretty quickly.

As for Republicans, the initial cost of taxes to cover the project will be offset by the increase in tax revenue from all those jobs and the boost to the economy that is given from all those jobs...jobs that would probably pay half-way decently.
edit on 9-11-2011 by AnIntellectualRedneck because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 03:11 AM
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either that was a perfectly executed tactical move by the chinese to degrade the efficiency of the us forces or just a huge gaffe on both sides. obviously avoidable had they just had AMERICANS making the military equipment.
but noooo they need to outsource that too to save a few dollars while putting in danger the people they say they serve over some selling to the cheapest manufacturer. NICE.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 03:18 AM
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It's beyond ridiculous that we are not manufacturing our own military equipment.
There is no excuse for this, national security alone should dictate this.
This is where pandering to corporate interests with their tax shelters and deregulation have not only come around to bite us in the ass, but to compromise both our safety as well as the safety of our military members as well.
No excuse!
edit on 11/9/2011 by dethduck because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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It all swings back to Wall Street once again.

The corporations who used to make the parts, domestically, outsourced the work to foreign suppliers to make more profit for the shareholders who, most times, are the same big Wall Street entities and banks.
They are NOT concerned about low grade, counterfeit or prone-to-failure parts being used, only the bottom line and an extra percentage point on their investment portfolios.

So, the corporate boardroom boys get a nice big bonus for slashing the labour costs (and sacking domestic workers), and the big investors get an extra few bucks as the profits rise! Hooray! Large ones all round at the country club and get that new Ferrari ordered.
Long term economic effects or the fate of those sacked workers mean nothing, it's all about getting rich quick and short term money. In short, it's about greed!



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
How much more tax are you prepared to pay to substitute for cheap Chinese labour...?.


The Pentagon does stuff like pay $900 for a set of screwdrivers and $80 for a lightbulb...even if the labor is cheap and in China, you can bet some contractor or middlemen are bellying up to the porkbarrel and getting well.

If labor costs went up, perhaps it could be substituted by a crackdown on this sort of thing.
edit on 9-11-2011 by Partygirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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What I do not understand is how a government EVER gets over charged for these things, by its own manufacturers to the point where these things are outsourced? Surely , as a government, it can dictate terms to the companies which operate on thier soil.

Something ought to be put in place which allows a government to refuse the right to trade to any arms manufacturer not prepared to charge reasonable rates to assist in the protection of the nation?


I have the same problem with the idea of Italy building our next aircraft carrier. Thats right, the United Kingdom of Great Britain, a nation with the proudest naval history in Europe, and dare I say , the world, a nation surrounded by water, with some of the most historic boatyards and ship builders on Earth, outsourced the building of its next aircraft carrier.

This is wrong.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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Britguy and Intellectualredneck nailed it. I remember as a kid back in the 60's that anything that had Made In China on it was a sign you were buying crap. 40 years later and no change.
Along with Wall Street we should give Bill Clinton a big hand on this as he was so eager to start trade with China and other countries by pushing NAFTA and GATT down the throats of the American public.
How he can show his face in public is beyond me.
We should treat them all like the traitors and pariahs they are for selling out the US.

Just wait til they find out the Chinese built backdoors in to many of the military systems which they can cause to fail with a few keystrokes. Dandy, huh?



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


WTH? The yards on the Clyde sit idle while Italy builds your next aircraft carrier?
When have the Italians ever built a decent ship?
This is a bad sign when the thing a nation does best is outsourced for political reasons.
Maybe they traded a boatload of Italian hookers for the deal.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Partygirl
 


I distinctly remember that there was a law that said that all parts of the military supply chain would come from U.S.A manufacturers (or an ally in times of major war). How in the he!! could this happen???

I am anti-war in general, unless it is in defense against an immediate and identifiable threat (Libertarian stance is the best description). But the Chinese being in our military supply chain is extremely dangerous to our troops and our nation. I don't think this needs further elaboration.

Other dangers: "operation fast & furious" is dangerous to our agents and citizens (U.S and Mexico); and the fact that major U.S.A. infrastructure projects are being given to Chinese low-bidders, while we face unemployment rivaling the Great Depression.

I don't see how things could become more surreal in our government's actions, but I'm sure they will be.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


Its not just the Clyde! There are shipyards capable of building naval vessels on near enough every coast of the nation, and yet, rather than create jobs in our own nation, rather than support British industry , plough resources into our nations boat yards and ailing steel industry, rather than do that, we have outsourced our navy's biggest construction projects to a nation whose only contribution to the world has been Romans (yeah , thanks guys), pizza, and fat plumbers who turn up , and then rather than fixing the pipes, go off on mad adventures.

If the new carrier rolls up to Plymouth or wherever, and we find Bowser chained up below decks, getting in the way of all the aircraft (that we cannot afford to put on the damned thing right now anyway) then maybe our leaders will learn a lesson. Worst you get left over when British engineers have been working is some left over tea bags and the odd beard hair.

My point is, that it is utterly outrageous to me, that any nation would use foreign built arms and vehicles , or indeed materials to BUILD those things out of. Its not a matter of protectionism, this is about sovereign nations having a responsibility to look after their national security affairs. The only way to effectively ensure the secrecy and security of a project of this scale is to deal with it on ones own doorstep, using material and parts made by companies and organisations within your own borders, over whom some decent oversight can be maintained.

This is why I am shocked and appalled by the stance the US is taking over the provision and construction of its wartech. Do not get me wrong, although both my Grandfathers were men of war, and although I respect them, and the efforts they made immensely , I have never had any urge to join my nations military, mostly because I do not trust the politicians who get to order them to war, to make morally lead choices about when or if to deploy forces in the first place.

However, I recognise that those men and women who fight for my nation , do so under the pretext that they are the people who do these things, so that their spouses, their children, their friends and neighbours need not do so. Therefore, when someone is sent to fight in the name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, I demand that they be provided with the most up to date, trustworthy, hard wearing, and effective vehicles and equipment that it is possible to make. I also believe that in the interests of keeping designs, specifications, weaknesses and strengths a secret, the only legitimate place to make ANY item carried by one of our war fighters is right here , in the UK.

I believe the same applies to the US. China, is a hideously corrupt nation, and all it would take is someone paying someone else off, and all of a sudden the people the US is fighting against have the tech manual for the weapons carried, or the parts in their radio comms gear. The very idea is absolutely ridiculous. I think the current establishment in the US and the UK could learn an awful lot from their counterparts from yesteryear in terms of keeping their cards close to their chest.

In summary, the US seems intent on putting its service persons at risk of faulty goods, intelligence leaks regarding the workings and parts used in their gear, AND seems intent on embuggering the weapons and equipment manufacturers within its own borders, simply because of cost. This is an absolute disgrace. It will cost the US an awful lot of money to put the failings of the Chinese manufacturing process right, and meanwhile things will be going wrong for people on the ground. My angle here is , if you cannot afford to properly equip the number of men and women currently deployed, then deploy less people, but arm those people properly. The numbers wont tell nearly as much if the gear they are carrying is doing the work its meant to.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Wasn't there a TV show about this?


That's right there was it was Battlestar Galactica. Not making the parts in this country is a joke.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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People here in the US have been in denial for FAR too long as to who our real enemy is.

"China doesn't have our best interest in mind??!!!" What a shocker.

Now to start paying attention to the Chinese products that your children are eating and sucking on. Somehow I have a feeling that sticking our heads in the sand won't solve that problem either.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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This boils down to a QA/QC (quality assurance/quality control) issue. The military maintains stringent standards that companies must adhere to under contract when providing products and services to same.

As a QC Inspector during the '80's and '90's working for a major military supplier I rejected many shipments for non-conformance only to have engineers accept said shipments with a "use as is" disposition. Typically the decision to use as is was due to pressure from the chain of command to make the end of month profit.

The face of greed is ever present and due diligence is often trumped.



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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I find this very strange....

i work for an american component company, they manufacture Particular components used by the US military!

now... As i am not a Us citizen i am not allowed to access the servers BY LAW and i specifically work as an IT tech, it can only be our US citizens that can have access to either the data or management of the servers...

i would expect this to be the case then across the board with Military hardware (i mean we manufacture a particularly important piece of hardware but that shouldnt be important)

this then with the same logic means all the management staff or people who are touching the designs must be US citizens... i dont understand how parts that are wrong can get passed.

Furthermore... surley like a locking mechanism in a gun, is a locking mechanism in a gun, like if it is manufactured to spec by A or sub contracted out to B with the same spec surley the end product is still the same?



posted on Nov, 9 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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and of course it is NOT just the chinese:

Miami firms supply counterfeit parts to USAF -


According to the indictment and evidence presented in court, Julio Zerene owned Zerene Aerospace Industries, in Miami. Zerene illegally manufactured aviation aircraft skins, wings, and control surfaces for various aircrafts including the U.S. military version of the Boeing 707/320 commercial airframe (KC-135), the U.S. Air Force’s E-3 Sentry, and U.S. Air Force’s Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) airplanes, by using improper materials, uncalibrated machinery, and without the proper technical schematics and drawings.


Just what constitutes a "counterfeit part" is something the civil aviation industry has been struggling with for some time - if a contract is let for 5 million AN spec bolts, and hte manufacturer makes 6 milion and sells the surplus off cheap, and they pass through the system and end up on aircraft, are they counterfeit??

The answer is......maybe! If they have been properly sampled for conformance and passed, then they are fine. If they have not been checked and are jsut sold "as is" then they are counterfeit.


edit on 9-11-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)




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