We really ARE alone ("Aliens" are not "E.T's" they are "E.D's")

reply to post by Conspirus


Wow, what a reaction, a bit late but well, you had a lot of people to yell at, presumably fishing for a reaction. Ok, I'll bite and try to deal with them in order I suppose.

Then why were yall railin on RevGen for NOT being open minded huh? By that statement you’re probably indirectly tryin to say that you DO have an open mind - not by a long shot by the way you’re talkin cuz you talk like you're defending your own religion.

I criticised him because he made assumptions of fact without discussion. I answered that in the very post you're quoting- read the full thing with context sometime. What religion is that exactly?

Yeah, so do you believe YOU have an open mind? How do you know Rev didn’t start out like YOU and then got to a truth through research or life itself?

Again, already answered. I do not know. How can you expect me to from a few sentences on an internet forum? What I can do however is listen to his reasoning and have doubt when none materialises. There is always a staged progression to an opinion being changed with certain events marking those stages- I haven't heard anything of the kind.

Yeah that's easy for you to say; you don’t know those guys' experiences nor the lives they've lived, maybe they've been where you’ve been yet you’re telling them exactly what they're doing as if you know it all.

I did say rhetoric didn't I? That I do have access to and that is what I am discussing in that quote, it is almost a carbon copy but with a mirror image. I am saying what it appears from the words they have used.
You do know this sentence of yours contradicts yourself entirely don't you? E.g. you don't know my life experiences etc. Is this your elaborate accusation of reflection?

Did you know….that some people say with one thing but do another?.....

Where from my post have I considered things unfairly? Where, also, did I say I do such a thing rather than simply attempt to do it?

You just DID express an opinion. Either way, let's pretend you didn't, you still have enough of your own views/opinions to tell someone he's a retard.

You just failed to read the sentence. I never said I wouldn't express an opinion! I said I would NOT use a force/ deity that cannot be verified to endorse, give credence to or give added strength to such an opinion. Nor did I call anyone that does a "retard"- however I do state that they are using unfair means to influence and gain power over others.

I really can't believe I got such an incendiary response to a pretty mild statement: presumed fact isn't good and objectivity helps to find the truth of a matter.

I don't know what got you so worked up, but it doesn't seem to have been my words- but if you insist on looking for a response from many, many people like you have done at least try not to be disingenuous enough to misrepresent what they have said and then argue with what you want them to have said.
Have a good night darlin'.

P.S. I have just seen you've also replied to another of my posts with the same bollocks. I'm sorry but I just can't be bothered to reply.

Also, do you not think it astronomically selfish and self- obsessed to fill 2 PAGES of a thread with your own posts? It is hardly a conversation simply your little "look at me!" session.

Originally posted by autowrench

Is that so?

The history of the language can be traced back to the arrival of three Germanic tribes to the British Isles during the 5th Century AD. Angles, Saxons and Jutes crossed the North Sea from what is the present day Denmark and northern Germany. The inhabitants of Britain previously spoke a Celtic language. This was quickly displaced. Most of the Celtic speakers were pushed into Wales, Cornwall and Scotland. One group migrated to the Brittany Coast of France where their descendants still speak the Celtic Language of Breton today. The Angles were named from Engle, their land of origin. Their language was called Englisc from which the word, English derives. An Anglo-Saxon inscription dated between 450 and 480AD is the oldest sample of the English language.

The Origin and History of the English Language
A short history of the origins and development of English

I think you are wrong.

Uh, dude, you might want to do a little more research rather than just skimming the top. At first glance I thought you were right, but I like to do my own research to ensure the data is correct. As I dug deeper, it appears Conspirus is correct. The rabbit hole goes much deeper than the British Isles and the Germanic languages. A quick Google or Wikipedia search will show you the majority of our vocabulary truly comes from Latin. Even our alphabet is Latin... Though it is fun to watch the exchange between you and Conspirus

Originally posted by autowrench

Yes, there is room for error in every Ancient writing, hieroglyph, script, cave drawing, and so on. Is there not also room for error in the Bible?

Yes, since the English vocabulary is not near as expansive as Greek there is a possibility of error in exact translation. When it comes to the Bible though there is much more direct knowledge available with regards to meaning of the words (considering the Greek is studied vigorously and much of the meanings have been passed down). IMO there is not any direct knowledge of carvings, heiroglyphs, etc. We can't say oh that picture is this for sure since that knowledge wasn't really passed down. All that exists are tablets and stones that were 'discovered' which have been used to translate. We frankly can't say if those tablets truly are correct.

How do you know they did not? Look at modern man beside Neanderthal Man, and Cro-Magnon Man.

Do you think humans evolved to what we are today all by themselves, with no help at all? I think humanity has been altered 28 plus times throughout history.

Personally, I believe that our bodies adapt to the situation. I don't believe we evolved or millions of years though (just not any proof of macro evolution). Anotomically speaking the structure of the body between the skeltons you have mentioned are similar. There are differences in size and density of bones but our skeletal system will become larger/smaller and denser/less dense depending on physical needs. Astronauts bones become less dense only after a few months in space. The body of a man who hunts and gathers will be vastly different from one who sits at a desk(extreme comparison I know). The features between skeletons are still human features. Now a human with a beak or webbed fingers, now that is DNA modification.

I appreciate you candor. I do not know "who" gave me the vision. It was not a dream. It was about 2:00 pm, a lazy summer afternoon, and I was laying on the sofa at my sister's house, watching TV. Suddenly everything stopped, and the atmosphere became hazy, I could not see the room anymore, or anything in the room. I have already posted the text of this vision HERE.

Like I said, I was able to stop it more than once, but upon my return it would began again, right were it left off. I still remember it like it was yesterday.

I gave your vision a quick glance, it certainly is creepy. One initial question is the demon looking bodies you referred to, I don't really connect how they fit in. Are they aliens as well? Was that the impression you got? I look forward to reading your story in more detail.

reply to post by Conspirus


Arghh, I just read your second reply and well done, you were successful, you were irritating enough to goad me into a response, but please, read my response to your other 'attack' first.

Actually in Christianity it WOULD be heresy to say Jesus was a full alien. He was definitely a hybrid of God and human, but he was still born in a natural birth from a woman on this earth. Hence as I was saying to autowrench, Jesus was not talking about coming from a different planet, or that he was not from the PLANET earth, it was more or less directed at the world system or tendencies. Greek is hard man

You seem to be responding to something other than what you quoted, I can't quite see the link here.

Wow, and yall call HIM ignorant eh? You know that puts all the books you probably esteem in the same situation.

Hmm. I stand by what I said, why do the ideas presented in one book which has undoubted political power and motive stand as more 'important' than those in any other book?
As for you trying to claim that all the books I have ever enjoyed were 'ignorant'... well, I'll just leave that to the 'gods' of irony...

Ok, obviously he uses the bible as his guideline. Have you ever read the bible before? It tells you what God does and doesn’t like. PLUS, when something’s important to you, you stand up for it, whether they are beliefs, a girlfriend, a fellow human being…he never said he’s being a “guardian”, that’s just you saying it to mock and belittle the guy. Much like the very reason why you attack his opinion with such religious fervor is because you don't want to consider that your Star Trek reality just might not be true.

Crikey, you seem intent on finding outrage in everything anyone has written on here that isn't an ardent christian. Yes, the bible supposedly 'teaches' what a god wants us to do- that doesn't state what offends him, that is something personal. I absolutely did NOT mock or belittle him/ her or their beliefs, nor did I say he claimed to be any kind of guardian. I thought I was simply talking with respect enough to state openly that some may consider it blasphemy or lack of 'awe' and condescending to try to stop anyone from upsetting or insulting this supposedly omnipotent, almighty being. That it is not really God's feelings, which are presumably unoffendable by us mere mortals, he is protecting but his own, for when someone insults his beliefs that would upset him- as you seem to agree: "when something’s important to you, you stand up for it, whether they are beliefs, a girlfriend, a fellow human being…".

Much like the very reason why you attack his opinion with such religious fervor is because you don't want to consider that your Star Trek reality just might not be true.

This is the one which really confused me. You have assumed a massive amount in order to create the picture which you wish to argue against. Where have I stated that I believe in anything remotely 'Star Trek'? Seriously, quote me. I don't know if you're confusing me with someone else but this is a truly bizaare accusation. Religious fervor?!?
I simply disagreed and asked questions! I'd hardly call it fervor and I fail to see how I have any religious association.

Is not being a christian and not subscribing to those beliefs a "Star Trek reality"? Because that's pretty much as close as I get.

Bloody hell...I've never even seen an original episode of star trek....

Originally posted by Conspirus
reply to post by Zeer0

 

So not believing Christ isnt the Messiah makes you a Demon? Christian Logic perseveres again

Or rather yours. Wow comments like those make YOU look close minded dude.
What he’s saying is that the fact that these aliens even mention on their way out after an abduction or visitation “Oh, and by the way….Jesus was fake,” is ridiculous. They don’t mention Buddha or Muhammed, but gotta comment on Jesus just by happenstance. Furthermore, when you tell them aliens to beat it “in Jesus’ name!!!“ they freak out and go away….now why would this be?
It’s inconsistent with who they’re claiming to be.

Because I am a christian, not an occult symbol worshipper like others here. I had a dream where I was invited to sit at a table of Muslims (who all looked ethnically like white americans or Canadians). I shook the hand of what I thought was the leader or alpha of the whole cultured looking group. I said, "Hey how are you doing, I am a Christian!" And then he laughed, then the rest laughed, and the laughter of my perceived joke turned into a mocking laugh. And then when they saw the laughing and mocking didn't affect me, they all of them got uncomfortable and angry. And then I realized what this spiritual war was. I commend you exactly Conspirus and your example is right. "They Freak out and go away." Or they freak out and threaten you and then threaten you with violence.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

"The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race," Phil Larson from the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy reported on the WhiteHouse.gov website."In addition, there is no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public’s eye."

Then what is this if the US government has no evidence:
gillevin.com...

Read the documents he has listed there and go here:
spaceflightnow.com...

Those two links are the most important links on ATS right now.

History is always repeated. "The Church" is now "The Government."

To the OP:
All of the evidence we're finding points to life elsewhere, just the opposite of what you say. There does appear to be some resistance, but I think it's human nature; anthropocentrism.

Originally posted by autowrench
Still scoffing? Make no mistake about it, this technology is quite real, and with the seeding of the sky with barium, anything is now not only possible, but probable.

Excerpts of World Freedom Information Network

Had a nice discussion about this with a truck driver the other day because he was interested and had never heard of it, though was convinced these are the end-times. This isn't really the Religion thread for blue beam discussion, but thanks for the thoughts and info. The Holy Mark of the beast and Antichrist's reign on earth. Amalgram of occult and heretical teachings. You seem to remain silent suspiciously on the Chemtrail ("seeding") threads. Because people in there are very prepared with educated answers on the throwing out of words? Oh the sky is falling, Barium, and a Holograph of fax domino to seduce the world to a One World Religion.

I am a poignant proponent of the rapture, I think the alien spaceships are just basically their version of Coracle boats. Maybe our evolution of boat technology came by observing and imagining extraterrestrial life out in the stars.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

"The U.S. government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race," Phil Larson from the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy reported on the WhiteHouse.gov website."In addition, there is no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public’s eye."

Then what is this if the US government has no evidence:
gillevin.com...

Read the documents he has listed there and go here:
spaceflightnow.com...

Those two links are the most important links on ATS right now.

History is always repeated. "The Church" is now "The Government."

To the OP:
All of the evidence we're finding points to life elsewhere, just the opposite of what you say. There does appear to be some resistance, but I think it's human nature; anthropocentrism.

edit on 16-11-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

jonnywhite,

These certainly are interesting links, and the data that the Viking missions recorded is definitely there. However, the theory of there being life is only based on what appeared to be periodic release of gas. While tantalizing, it does not prove the existence of life. I do not think you can say for certainty that all of the evidence is pointing to life elsewhere. Thanks for the info though.

reply to post by Kyobosha

I wish I had your skepticism, sometimes. Would have better got me through school.

reply to post by Kyobosha

I gave your vision a quick glance, it certainly is creepy. One initial question is the demon looking bodies you referred to, I don't really connect how they fit in. Are they aliens as well? Was that the impression you got? I look forward to reading your story in more detail.

In the study of Solomon's "Key" one discovers that each human being has 72 inferior spirits within him/herself. These manifest as many emotional outbursts, such as anger, depression, mania, terror, and so on. Most people have no control whatsoever on these, and are not even ware of them, but assign everything not of their faith to a demon/satan/devil, never knowing what they really are, or what their meaning is. What I did was form a working relationship with them. I have an understanding of the duality of Nature, and walk the path between the worlds. Light on one side, Darkness on the other, taking from both, never falling into either. This is not an easy path to walk, in fact, it is much harder than the wide, straight highway of book religion.

reply to post by MarkScheppy

You seem to remain silent suspiciously on the Chemtrail ("seeding") threads.

Why detract from the seekers? I already know about them. Take a read over here: From an airline mechanic:
That's enough evidence for me.

reply to post by yes4141

Wow, what a reaction, a bit late but well, you had a lot of people to yell at, presumably fishing for a reaction. Ok, I'll bite and try to deal with them in order I suppose.

Hahaha! In all honesty I like your response and your odd sense of humor as well. And no I wasn’t fishing for a reaction….as you can see I don’t usually enjoy posting for that very reason. I was not exactly fishing for a reaction, but to be honest I got a little frustrated with the one sidedness of the whole thing against RevGen and wanted to address those posts. Though I suppose NO reaction is better for me jus so I can feel like I won the argument haha!….I myself don’t think I was yelling, for the most part anyway, but if it was somewhat blunt… I suppose it was unavoidable.

I criticised him because he made assumptions of fact without discussion.

Yes. Do you not make assumptions of fact as well? Is it not because of these assumptions of fact you have yourself that you are able to criticize him as you have??

Here you say: Surely the first step of trying to have an ‘open mind’ is realizing that all your interpretations, assumptions, beliefs, etc. could be wrong- even the information you collect with your senses could be incorrect.

It just didn’t seem to me he got much of a chance to discuss it with anyone as the thread turned into him trying to defend his beliefs and sanity from those either implying that or saying it to his face.

I answered that in the very post you're quoting- read the full thing with context sometime.

I read it many times….are you sure you’re not tryin to be unclear on purpose? Either way your response to the guy implies contradiction as well -

What religion is that exactly?

A thought process/belief you are defending by how you were responding to RevG.

Conspirus: Yeah, so do you believe YOU have an open mind? How do you know Rev didn’t start out like YOU and then got to a truth through research or life itself?

[quote[yes4141Again, already answered. I do not know. How can you expect me to from a few sentences on an internet forum?
I DON”T expect you to man. Hence my point, why couldn’t you discuss it rather than criticize?

What I can do however is listen to his reasoning and have doubt when none materialises. There is always a staged progression to an opinion being changed with certain events marking those stages- I haven't heard anything of the kind.

Oh good glad to hear that comin from you. Sure sometimes it does depend on presentation of a certain material - as far as the OP is concerned it would have probably been a more fruitful discussion had he not been jumped on as being a christian and thus everyone’s perspective of him already set in stone that it was a religious issue.

I did say rhetoric didn't I? That I do have access to and that is what I am discussing in that quote, it is almost a carbon copy but with a mirror image. I am saying what it appears from the words they have used. You do know this sentence of yours contradicts yourself entirely don't you? E.g. you don't know my life experiences etc. Is this your elaborate accusation of reflection?

I wasn’t necessarily saying that you doing so, just saying what your words appear to read as, in this case the rhetoric argument you use.

Where from my post have I considered things unfairly? Where, also, did I say I do such a thing rather than simply attempt to do it?

It is my opinion that there has been no attempt to consider things fairly on your part. If you were considering things truly fairly you wouldn’t jump in on the bandwagon eh?
By your entire post you’re basically implying that OP and 5470000 don’t have open minds, correct? Because they believe in a deity. And at the end you are saying in a sense "well, those people over there do it, but certainly not me." That automatically puts them at a mental capability disadvantage does it not?

reply to post by yes4141

Conspirus: You just DID express an opinion. Either way, let's pretend you didn't, you still have enough of your own views/opinions to tell someone he's a retard.

yes4141You just failed to read the sentence. I never said I wouldn't express an opinion! I said I would NOT use a force/ deity that cannot be verified to endorse, give credence to or give added strength to such an opinion. Nor did I call anyone that does a "retard"- however I do state that they are using unfair means to influence and gain power over others.

I do not believe I failed to read the sentence. You stated that you wouldn’t claim that you have a “divine license” to express an opinion. If how I interpreted your post was not what you meant then there was confusion on my part. You may not have used the term directly but your treatment of RevGen is acting as such. Now to that I ask, how are they being unfair if they were trying to exclude their religious views to begin with?

Neither RevG or 5470000 were using God to back up what they were saying. And this statement automatically discredits anyone who believes in God or a separate deity.
From what I can see Rev.G. was trying to get into this topic without bringing religion into it; there were a couple posts where he was asking a couple of you guys to stay on topic or that he wasn’t bringing up religion into this.
And actually, when going into an argument it’s usually even harder to "give more credit" to a view when one actually brings in a deity to add support/strength/credence to an opinion, because a similar thing that happened in this thread will occur.

I really can't believe I got such an incendiary response to a pretty mild statement: presumed fact isn't good and objectivity helps to find the truth of a matter.

Haha incendiary? I could have put it much worse dude. Yknow I myself don’t feel like I was being so ‘incendiary’ however if I harassed ya too much I apologize….it WAS one of the last one’s I was replying to so it’s possible I was more agitated than normal lol. And yes, I agree objectivity helps to find the truth of a matter.

I don't know what got you so worked up, but it doesn't seem to have been my words- but if you insist on looking for a response from many, many people like you have done at least try not to be disingenuous enough to misrepresent what they have said and then argue with what you want them to have said.

Naw you’re actually not as bad as some of the others - if I jumped on ya too harshly - again my apologies…you sure don‘t like the taste of your own medicine though that‘s for sure you gotta admit; however as far as misrepresenting goes I highly doubt I have done, especially considering I’ve read a large portion of this thread a couple times before I decided to say anything AND I assume most people are on my same mental level

I gotta ask though why you getting all worked up if it was just some miscommunication man?

Have a good night darlin'.

Yeah you too sweet pea.

P.S. I have just seen you've also replied to another of my posts with the same bollocks. I'm sorry but I just can't be bothered to reply.

You woulda made my job easier if you hadn’t have replied actually lol I see you did, I look forward to responding to that reply. However due to some inconvenient family matters and a bad internet connection I shall likely take a couple more days as otherwise I cannot focus on our discussion. I respect that you replied to my posts and you have my word I won’t ignore them, or it….I think it was just one more.

Also, do you not think it astronomically selfish and self- obsessed to fill 2 PAGES of a thread with your own posts? It is hardly a conversation simply your little "look at me!" session.

Mmm….that’s one way to put it I suppose, it was actually about 3 pages man lol

Well dude…I actually don’t like calling attention to myself - hence why I usually just lurk. However this 5 on 1 mocking really started to aggravate me…. Couldn’t just sit still if ya get what I mean, which I’m sure you do. Didn’t realize how many posts it was gonna be but hey what can I say now? Feel better now that I got everything off my chest though, whether or not the others reply don’t bother me none.

reply to post by WannabeMartian

[quote]Conspirus:You know what man, unless you see a ufo land in your backyard and he comes to shake your hand and you can see hear smell touch and taste him you yourself are running on faith.

WannabeMarian:Agreed. Although there are other kinds of valid evidence, I don't believe in ET visitation for that exact reason - even though few things would make me happier than knowing ET was here.

Finally here’s some discussion, you can be objective afterall eh?

Not putting you down nor being sarcastic so may I ask why ET being here would make you happy?

Conspirus:What if, just what if those new views don’t undermine his religion in any way just like what he's saying wouldn't fit in your religion that these aliens will come save you in the end? Then you could easily assimilate it into the picture cuz it’s naturally a part of the puzzle to begin with. You seem to hold yourself highly but…dude!

WannabeMartianI don't really understand what you are writing here.

You stated that his faith blinds him, when that may actually not be the case - I know my share of men of faith who are very open to new ideas as long as there‘s no biblical contradiction.
You stated that you are an agnostic atheist, so this technically would be your “religion” or faith or worldview which has a tendency to equally blind you and close your mind - a worldview that interprets information you come across in a certain light.

As a agnostic atheist, my starting point of view is that (organized) religion in itself is perhaps the biggest problem for humanity.

I agree, organized religion IS the biggest problem for humanity. I encourage you to read “Worldwive Evil and Misery - The Legacy of the 13 Satanic Bloodlines by Robin de Ruiter.” The fact that the many contributors of this book were either killed, tortured, or nearly so indicates whatever information they had was probably significant….you can download it for 99 cents from amazon I believe. It addresses many things but also addresses religions/cults. I am starting to consider perhaps that every religion other than the monotheistic religions may have been made up to dilute the truth, it is amazing information.

That said, the point I was trying to make with the comment you quoted is that faith is static while ideas are dynamic. Faith cannot evolve, while ideas cannot stop evolving.

Actually faith CAN be dynamic - it is either strengthened or weakened depending on the thought process, manipulation, and experiences of the one who possesses that faith…in that sense, can’t faith evolve as well?

Therefore a religious person cannot really have an "open mind", if the term is used correctly.
I understand what you are trying to say, however just like a parachute opened too far is just as useless as one that is closed, there needs to be a balance or a standard to be held to - otherwise you will be tossed to and fro by every type of wind or wave. Mmm….do I make sense man?

I don't see why you feel I hold myself highly; …..I have many thoughts and ideas based on my humble sense of logic.

Probably the attitude the post seemed to have; forgive me for my bluntness of my posts, I myself believe blunt is good but I don’t make many friends either haha! I now see you are indeed able to calmly hold an objective discussion if you so choose.

I don't claim to KNOW anything

Well if so my good man why are you belittling that man of faith as being blind and closeminded?

And as for your other post it is a good one and I will get to it you have my word - currently havin family issues and that combined with a bad internet doesn’t work out too well postin with clarity haha

reply to post by autowrench

I might ask you the same thing. How do you, and all of the others in here get all of this insider knowledge of what God means, what God Thinks, and what God said? Where does that come from?

As far as I’m concerned I just love to research man…knowledge is power. I’m a skeptic myself too, it’s only recently everything seems to be makin sense.
As far as Kyobosha goes…I dunno what to tell ya looks like he keeps on the research quite a bit too maybe. There is a portion in the bible somewhere where it DOES say that the content is spiritually discerned and won't make sense to the common man. Perhaps it is my more openness of late to consider perhaps what it is saying as being worth something than just hogwash that I am being able to perhaps make sense of it....or being "allowed to," who knows.

Think about what you said, if God created the whole wide Universe, then in not the Universe God's home?

That is a logical assumption. In the bible is described 3 heavens - one being our skies we see from earth, two being the space in our universe, and 3 beyond the universe. So God’s home would then be after the edge of the universe.

And if God has many mansions in God's home, then does that not mean many places in the Universe where God created?[/quote[
Just change “in the universe” to “beyond the universe” and you’re on the money.

BTW I am surprised at how calmly you swallowed my posts as well and am very relieved to see you can have an actual discussion instead of just what I was seein. You have a lot of interesting things to say and I see you aren’t the typical ignorant type either in just to be obnoxious. Your dream is fascinating as well - I will ponder that for awhile myself.

As I told WannabeMartian and yes4141I have full intention of responding to your other post - due to family situations and bad internet kinda makes it hard to focus or to reply haha but I’ll get back to you man you have my word. You sound like a family man so I'm sure you know what I'm talkin bout

reply to post by Conspirus

(...) may I ask why ET being here would make you happy?

I think that advanced ETI may be able to help humanity rid itself of the scourge of religion (in one way or another). Also, I have the childish dream of sometime visiting another world / culture. Think about the things we could learn!

I know my share of men of faith who are very open to new ideas as long as there‘s no biblical contradiction.

Well, being "open to new knowledge and ideas" and having the "as long as it does not contradict my current worldview" attitude are in fact mutually exclusive. You cannot have / be both.

You stated that you are an agnostic atheist, so this technically would be your “religion” or faith or worldview which has a tendency to equally blind you and close your mind - a worldview that interprets information you come across in a certain light.

Being an atheist is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby. While I agree that any worldview may create a bias when analyzing new information, an agnostic will perhaps be better equipped to objectively evaluate information than one who is of the aforementioned "as long as it does not contradict my current worldview" mindset. No human is completely unbiased, but we have to try our best!

Thank you for the book recommendation, even though it seems it is written by people who are clearly biased towards monotheism (I have not read it yet). I find it interesting that you think that all "other" kinds of religion are made to "dilute the truth". In my mind, all organized religion seems likely to be made to control the "sheeple", and to earn money - with weight on the money.

Actually faith CAN be dynamic - it is either strengthened or weakened depending on the thought process, manipulation, and experiences of the one who possesses that faith…in that sense, can’t faith evolve as well?

No, not as I understand the word. Strengthening or weakening faith is ultimately about being or not being religious, so I guess I could say that "yes, a person of faith can evolve to the point where faith is replaced by science", but I doubt you would like that.

If religious practice / doctrine (any religion) is determined by "the word / will of God", then unless god him -or herself manifests and tells followers about the new direction of the religion, the changes (or evolution if you will) will be made up by humans, and therefore would be a deviation rather than evolution. Take the catholic pope's decision that dead unbaptised babies don't go to hell anymore as of 2007, for example.

Therefore a religious person cannot really have an "open mind", if the term is used correctly.
I understand what you are trying to say, however just like a parachute opened too far is just as useless as one that is closed, there needs to be a balance or a standard to be held to - otherwise you will be tossed to and fro by every type of wind or wave. Mmm….do I make sense man?

Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but being "tossed to and fro by every type of wind or wave" is exactly what one should be. Just make sure to use the filters of logic and reproducible science. This is at the very center of "having an open mind".

(...) why are you belittling that man of faith as being blind and closeminded?

I don't mean to belittle anyone, but faith is per definition "blind". That's why it's called blind faith.

reply to post by Conspirus

Yes. Do you not make assumptions of fact as well? Is it not because of these assumptions of fact you have yourself that you are able to criticize him as you have??

But I haven't made any assumptions of fact in these posts that I am aware of, I have made inferences which I have put forward as questions- as I said the criticism was for this very thing, so no, I don't believe that is correct.

It just didn’t seem to me he got much of a chance to discuss it with anyone as the thread turned into him trying to defend his beliefs and sanity from those either implying that or saying it to his face.

Look, I realise that you're unhappy with how you feel the OP was treated 'unfairly' but you cannot reply to my posts as a response to many- I'm not responsible for other peoples treatment of him! He put forward a proposition and I replied as I saw fit, without reading other responses first, questioning what I thought was lacking in it: surely that is the very purpose of this forum?
I was not gratuitously rude, nor personal in my reply.

A thought process/belief you are defending by how you were responding to RevG.

I asked what religion not what is religion. Is the rejection of a specific religion now a religion in itself? Is 'not a chair' now an anti-chair? Is a tree now an 'Anti- everything -else-but-a-tree'?

I DON”T expect you to man. Hence my point, why couldn’t you discuss it rather than criticize?

What do you want then? I did discuss it, I just didn't agree with it. As above, I was neither gratuitously rude nor personal so I don't understand what you're after! It seems any disagreement is seen by you as personal attack- it most definately is NOT.

It is my opinion that there has been no attempt to consider things fairly on your part. If you were considering things truly fairly you wouldn’t jump in on the bandwagon eh?

I'll say it again- I first responded BEFORE reading ANY OTHER replies. A general consensus is not necessarily a bandwagon.

By your entire post you’re basically implying that OP and 5470000 don’t have open minds, correct? Because they believe in a deity. And at the end you are saying in a sense "well, those people over there do it, but certainly not me." That automatically puts them at a mental capability disadvantage does it not?

No, I don't believe so- and I certainly didn't mean it as such. It was not an accusation at the original post but at subsequent posts which implied divine knowledge- I think regardless of anything else that is a slightly underhanded thing to do in a conversation as it is invulnerable to any response- therefore pointless in conversation and becomes proseletyzing.

reply to post by Conspirus


...phew, on to part 2 I suppose (apologies for double post).

I do not believe I failed to read the sentence. You stated that you wouldn’t claim that you have a “divine license” to express an opinion. If how I interpreted your post was not what you meant then there was confusion on my part. You may not have used the term directly but your treatment of RevGen is acting as such. Now to that I ask, how are they being unfair if they were trying to exclude their religious views to begin with?

I'm sorry, I think you have slightly misconstrued what I meant. Not divine license to demonstrate opinion but it as reasoning to reinforce an opinion, e.g. "My dog is red" compared to "my dog is red because god says so!". It is impervious to ANY reply and simply pressures the other person to accept it as THEIR fact regardless of truth (which we obviously do not know, so should not claim to). This is my point about fair doubt of even your own senses- even if it is a personal 'fact' we can still be wrong!

Regardless of intent, a subject such as this is effectively metaphysical and therefore the god implication is unavoidable as it goes on. I also accept I brought it up as I believed that was a motivating factor, the 'agenda' I mentioned, in the OP because of other threads I have read.

Haha incendiary? I could have put it much worse dude. Yknow I myself don’t feel like I was being so ‘incendiary’ however if I harassed ya too much I apologize….it WAS one of the last one’s I was replying to so it’s possible I was more agitated than normal lol. And yes, I agree objectivity helps to find the truth of a matter.

This is what I didn't get- your posts were far more aggressive (not that they were actually bad) than mine which you had problems with! Never mind, I'm not too fussed about it- can't really blame you after such a mammoth replying session.

however as far as misrepresenting goes I highly doubt I have done, especially considering I’ve read a large portion of this thread a couple times before I decided to say anything AND I assume most people are on my same mental level

It probably wasn't on purpose, probably wasn't worded well enough to begin with- that is all I really found irritating, that I was gettin accused of all this insulting that I didn't even get to do!

...whew, well there we go, one full reply taken care of. I get that you were annoyed with the thread in general, but I hope you realise that my posts had nothing to do with anyone else and I certainly wasn't ganging up on anyone on my own!

Originally posted by neobludragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

They just want to keep us in the dark, they don't want us to leave this planet. I really hope a galactic war happens sooner or later. This kinda thing really pisses me off how they deny the existance that there is life elsewhere. How can there not be? The universe is keeps growing and growing every single day. Yet they're saying "nah theres no life elsewhere" B.S.

People are constantly saying "they" are denying the existance of extraterrestrial life. "They" need to provide disclosure.
Who is "THEY"?

World Leaders?

The truth is as simple as the nose on our faces. And for whoever takes the time to read this, I will explain why.

FIRST: An Extraterrestrial is defined as; from outside the earth or its atmosphere.

What is GOD?
In every translation of the book of Genesis the passage is: "God" said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

OUR ?
Who exactly are the rest of the group?
OUR is plural, always plural and "Our" is the exact same translation of Genesis in every language.

So for all who say "they" should provide disclosure to the general public...

"THEY" have already told you.

Obviously this Earth was intelligently designed, the Earth, Moon and Oceans everything is so intricate right down to the stranger you pass on the street and every mundane matter under the heavens.
Every task of every one of us is an intricate puzzle piece and happens for a reason. Yes it is true and if you know "The Secret" and apply this to your life, you will see it at work.

This beautiful blue marble, EARTH turning in space and rotating around our "Life Source", THE SUN has abundant beautiful oceans with sea life for us to eat and animals, trees. flowers and all that provides us with food to nourish our bodies and provide beauty for our eyes and tranquility for our minds.

We are ALL the caretakers of the beautiful EARTH.

"When "God" and extraterrestrials are in the same mind set, is all becomes very clear.

As for the Earth having been "destroyed" 3 times before...
The Earth is still here and has been here for billions of years. The EARTH has never been destroyed; only the inhabitants upon it. Those who were not doing their jobs to care for EARTH properly.

Finally, Does anyone think "cavemen" built the Great Pyramids, or Stone Henge or the Mayan temples?
If you read the history books, this would be the case. How do our history books contradict themselves?

The Great Pyramids of Giza were built to withstand destruction and to be a continous reminder of this mystery, who built them and how did they do it?

The mystery is complicated and simple at the same time.
Disclosure already happened, we were just too busy to notice. Or did we?

This is the profound truth, yet who will read this long, mundane post of mine?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

P.S I am not saying their is not a real UFO phenomenon going on or that people haven't experienced abductions, or that we should trust the government... But from my research and many others these things are certainly NOT extraterrestrial. If anything they are extra-dimensional beings, if you wan't to find out what these things really are I suggest you research the work of a man named "L.A. Marzulli". Marzulli has interviewed people who have direct contact with UFOs, cattle mutilations, alien implants, abductions and more. It shouldn't be hard to find his work on the web.

edit on 8-11-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

Marzulli and similar "researchers" are nothing more than Christians pushing their agenda: that aliens (ETs) are demons. They use a highly questionable source, the bible, to prove their statements. They use the fear of abductees, and the incorrect interpretations of their experience, to prove that ETs are hostile. The fact is, humans fear ET because we do not understand them, we do not understand why they are here and we do not understand or REMEMBER that they have always been here, for every single one of us and that we agreed to this as individuals. They are not hostile. They are part of our vast experience and eternal nature and are with us in this particular experience for incredible yet unremembered reasons. Each and every one of us. We are not victims of a spiritual force that we have no control of, and thus we have no need for a savior. We simply need to realize that this life is part of an incredibly fascinating, alive and infinite existence. It is so complex and intricate that our minds cannot, and are not meant to, understand it. We're all here for a reason. But if we give in to the fear pushed by religion and people who insist that they have a direct connection with what they think is "god" we're going to miss our purpose or at the very least delay accomplishment of what we are here to do. Religion is only here to act as a crutch to the fearful, even while it cultivates and confirms that fear. That's the irony of it. The more you open your spirit to other possibilities the less you will need religion and the more religion will appear to be primitive and silly.