CIA Drones Kill Large Groups Without Knowing Who They Are.

Missiles are cheap for the CIA, free from DOD.

But they would be better off putting a directed energy laser on the Drones. A micro-second discharge of directed energy at a Pakistani's head could give him a Lobotomy from the Air.

You really hurt a country by giving them lots of injured to care for....or worse....give their entire population Lobotomy's from orbiting Drones in their airspace.

Wouldn't that give the world some "shock and awe"???

Nah I Dont Belive It If It Was True It Would Be On The News

reply to post by Xcathdra

The CIA is about the only group im familiar with that can classifiy its operations to the extent that files wont see the light of day. With compartmentalized need to know clearence, its easy to break up the operation enough where no one person has all the puzzle pieces. So on the off chance courts or congress get invovled, any person they question can say they dont know and it would be truthful.

With this bit and the rest of your post, it seems even you are agreeing that the CIA has become the unquestioned Judge,Jury and Executioner.

What a sad sad day when a few suits from DC can decide who lives and dies and then answer to no one.

Originally posted by Xcathdra


Our Constitution does not apply to foreigners in another country.
Its not a civil or criminal action that took place, but a hostile engagement between 2 sides who are at war.

So wait. The US Constitution doesn't apply to "foreigners in another country". What applies to the citizens of their country? Does the US Constitution say "you're free to blast this bejeezuz out of citizens of other countries while they are in their own country on the other side of the planet who have not attacked you but you are by your own self-righteous means inside their country without their consent and with whom you have not even officially declared war"?

I do hope the balances of justice swing back the other way soon. The US is going to be a hole in the ground.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


There are many different laws..
State,Federal and International are a few..

Some people tend to quote whichever one suits their purpose at that time..

reply to post by ipleadthe5th


Thanks, I didn't really need clarification. I'm American. I'm just smart enough not to live there anymore.

I know all about government and its machinations. I worked in government for longer than did me any good at all.

Reading through this thread it becomes apparent that the CIA answers to no one because of compartmentalization and classified material.

By keeping secrets even amongst themselves one hand doesn't know who the other hand is killing. If and when they are called to answer to the congressional body with oversight and funding capabilities, that body better call in the right person because if they don't, the person sitting in front of them will just say they don't know. So short of calling in every employee, field agent and administrator and asking the same question of each, no information will be given. That's compartmentalization.

Because the CIA is involved in National Security, they can claim classified to anyone using or attempting to use FOIA (the Freedom of Information Act.) The CIA, in madness or a power grab, in 2009 expanded their sphere to include climate change. Rising sea levels are now a matter of National Security. This particular area of endeavor made the news because of a denied request for data through FOIA. They claimed classified.

www.scientificamerican.com...

So using these tools, the CIA has become a law unto themselves and themselves alone. This is just absolutely wrong. People are dead because the CIA has become some sort of clan of assassins, armed and sanctioned by the US, with no oversight.

reply to post by CherubBaby


And when "Terminator" came out I laughed and refused to watch it..........a machine will do exactly what it's programmed to do.

If you plug in a certain Long & Lat and say "kill" that's exactly what it will do.

It doesn't reason between a soldier with a machine gun or a mother and baby.

But humanity just doesn't learn, just doesn't seem to want to grow up.

Case in point, million of young people buy and play video games that have a guy marching through shooting up and killing pretend people....................cannot understand the joy in shooting up, blowing up, knifing, etc.

I have Bookworm and Scrabble. Word games.

Yet these killing games are making tens of billions so a lot of people are buying and playing and enjoying destroying (even if it's pretending) others?????

Don't know, I must be from another planet, I feel like T'Pol on the Star Ship Enterprise, I'm at a loss sometimes for how many humans can enjoy violent video games, bull fights, dog fights, cock fights, war, wrestling, even football seems rather brutish.



And the CIA is doing a lot of creepy stuff they shouldn't be doing..............they are the American Mafia.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

They are the Mafia Posing as Americans. I define Americans as the People of America. Not The Govt that destroys freedom or The CIA that kills to destroy it.

reply to post by CherubBaby


The common American person has no say in their government.

Read my location.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


First im not self rightous
Second - If you dont want US troops in other countries, then those countries / groups within shouldnt attack the US. (USS Cole / 1st WTC attack / Embassy bombings x2 on the African Continent / attempted assasination of President Clinton in the Phillipines) - All occuring prior to 9/11

Third - You did not understand my post. In reference to using drone strikes in foreign countries, an argument was made that those actions violated the US Constitution and the rights of the foreign citizens.. I was pointing out that the US Constitution does not apply to foreign people in a foreign nation.

People are confusing the difference between US Domestic law with the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Since we are still in a state of war (Congressional use of force authorization -war on terror), hostilities will continue. Im not sure wher you get the whole declared war issue?

Contrary to popular belief Xongress does nothave to use the phrase - declaration of war. They can call it whatever they want to since it falls within their constitutional requirements.

in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan - Congress passed 2 resolutions for the use of military force.
1 for Afghanistan
1 for Iraq

Do you not think its important for all of us to research and find all the facts that we can? The goal is to find the truth, regardless if that truth supports or undermines your position.

reply to post by luxordelphi


They have oversite as well as people they answer to -

Congressional oversight of the CIA

Senate oversite * - Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI)
House oversite * - House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI)

From there you can find many laws / legislation etc that governs the actions of the CIA (Torrichelli(sp?) principle to anme just one).

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by CherubBaby

 

The common American person has no say in their government.

Read my location.

Fixed -
The common American person has no say in their government.because they are to lazy and apathetic to care, instead prefering others to make the decision for them.

Its not good enough to just complain...
Its not good enough to complain without trying to find resolutions.

Its not good enough for the people to blame the government for the peoples failure - Voting out representatives who dont do their job / represent special interests.

every time we rubber stamp an election, it just reinforces the problems we face.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I don't rubber stamp any election since the electronic voting system came into play.On the issue of complaining, Are you saying that our elected officials need to be told its wrong to allow the CIA to slaughter people without due process. Americans or not, they happen to be human beings like me and you and also creations of God. Do I need to complain that The Constitution is being used as a piece of toilet paper by them as they pass The Patriot Act Etc.. You of all people know this. If it's " I don't have to worry cause ____ __ ____ _ for a living in uniform. Then I think that needs to be reconsidered as well. ( If that were the case ) Be that as it may. No one can say the war helped do anything but kill people 100,000 plus that were innocent Civilians. Made a bunch of CIA contractors rich. and devastated an innocent Iraq, in the sense they had no weapons of Mass Destruction. But we sure used some heavy destruction on them . We are the enemies of the world now and The Govt made up this way. It was all a money grab and more importantly a power grab to kill the privacey of The American People. and blame it on a boogie man that never did what he was accused of... Am I a saddam lover NO. Alqueada lover NO. I will worry about terrorists when I see one or have to deal with one. But Hey they aren't reading our mail, wire tapping without warrants. And I know they didn't steal the 16 trillion dollars this country is in debt because the whores in Wa like their lobbying friends, earmarks.and campaign contributions. I could go one all day.. Killing without oversight and without checks and balances Is murder in a court of law. Isn't it?

Originally posted by CherubBaby
I don't rubber stamp any election since the electronic voting system came into play.

I was referring to people who dont vote, or those people who vote who check the name they are most familiar with while ignoring the persons ability to actually do the job.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
On the issue of complaining, Are you saying that our elected officials need to be told its wrong to allow the CIA to slaughter people without due process.

Again the US constitution does not apply to foriegn citizens in foreign countries, If you wish to make the Due Process argument, then select a country and see if the lawsl allows due process - Not many countries do Secondly, there is a difference in how Domestic Laws and UCMJ work.

If your using the terms slaughter and due process based on your opinion, then disregard what I said.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
Americans or not, they happen to be human beings like me and you and also creations of God. Do I need to complain that The Constitution is being used as a piece of toilet paper by them as they pass.

Before using it as a piece of toilet paper people should read what it says and how it applies, as well as who it applies to.

Again there is a difference between military and civilians laws as well as target classifications. I dont ever recall Al Queida giving us a heads up on the first WTC bomb, or the USS Cole, or the 2 American embassies on the African continent, or the assasination attempt against President Clinton - All actions which are grounds for war.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
The Patriot Act Etc.. You of all people know this. If it's " I don't have to worry cause ____ __ ____ _ for a living in uniform.

The Patriot Act does not apply to US citizens, and to head part of this off -
* - Jose Padilla - Transfered back into civilian custody - Supreme Court ruling about citizens rights in the US.
* - Suspension of Habeous corpus - REsolved by USSC ruling / Military commission act of 2006/2008/2009.
* - Suspension of Posses Commitatus - It never was suspended and is still in force.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
Then I think that needs to be reconsidered as well. ( If that were the case ) Be that as it may. No one can say the war helped do anything but kill people 100,000 plus that were innocent Civilians.

So only innocent civilians are murdered / killed when the US is involved, but when Hussein kills 500k of his own countrymen its ok to keep quiet? This approach has been tried twice before, and it resulted in WWI and WWII. Appeasement does not work.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
Made a bunch of CIA contractors rich. and devastated an innocent Iraq, in the sense they had no weapons of Mass Destruction.

Wikileaks confirmed WMDS were found, and as I poiinted out before show me in the UN resolutions where it states Iraq can have a small wmd program? As far as contractors go, you guys need to take your blinders off. The US is not the only country involved in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Any reason why the US is singaled out?

Originally posted by CherubBaby
But we sure used some heavy destruction on them . We are the enemies of the world now and The Govt made up this way. It was all a money grab and more importantly a power grab to kill the privacey of The American People. and blame it on a boogie man that never did what he was accused of... Am I a saddam lover NO. Alqueada lover NO. I will worry about terrorists when I see one or have to deal with one. But Hey they aren't reading our mail, wire tapping without warrants. And I know they didn't steal the 16 trillion dollars this country is in debt because the whores in Wa like their lobbying friends, earmarks.and campaign contributions. I could go one all day.. Killing without oversight and without checks and balances Is murder in a court of law. Isn't it?

There is voersight - The Senate and the House committees for intelligence etc etc etc.
As far as being the enemies of the World - Oh well.

I would rather go down and be hated for doing something, than go down with my mouth closed because the killings were done in another country by a dictator. You guys scream your lungs out war / military action - but only when it comes to the US.

You guys are quiet on every other topic, and it leads me to ask the question - Why is it you single out the US for deaths, yet remain quiet on our allies events? Why the US while remaining quiet on many countries who are killing their own people?

I have no issues holding the US accountible. However, I do have issues when all other incidents / actions / other countries are ignored.

The term its not my problem should no longer be used to justify non intervention.The people killing are criminal, and the ones who just watch and do nothing are criminally negligent.

REspects

reply to post by Xcathdra


You know I will make it crystal clear. . The Bush administration created 911. He is a f-kin traitor and his cabnet.The intel was their brainchild. Thats why Powell never played with them again. He was punked on national TV. He didnt like being the patsy for info that he later found out was crap.

I can point you to numerous lies by that pig called Bush on 911 issues. He is a rat and the father of lies. ok?. His whole family is.

The issue here is not the status quo for military engagement and the need to remove a tyrant. I am 55 years old I have not lived my life with my eyes closed. I know what horror is and I know what a pig looks like when I see and hear one.

The truth is this country was sold out by Clinton, Bush Senior and Junior, and now Obama carries the torch of pantomime. The NWO and all that crap is a joke and injected into this world by the RICH, the so called elite and they are a threat to this country and to our sovereignty because the traitors in office are allowing it and participating as bedfellows to them for profit.

Funny and Im not going to get into it ,but give me a break and dont embarass us by saying you would agree that wallets and identification of the so called hijackers were found at ground zero and the jet engines were not? Jesus what t f is that all about?. The only jet that crashed that day was the one supposidly on its way to The White House. JOKE!!! All the materials were shipped to China after the clean up!! The crime scene was shipped to China!! Thats great huh.. That makes alot of sense., The most famous crime scene in history and the physical evidence is shipped to China!! Right!!

The rat lied up to the end "The economy is strong" as he leaves office with a bag of money , 750 + billion dollars for his banking buddies. 28 dollars a plate for every man woman etc in uniform to eat via his Vice President Haliburton and even if there is no food on the paper plate., We are charged for it regardless.

There is an old saying, "As above, so below" Whats that mean in this case? The way this out of control,lying,murdering, extorting, and Constitution Violating Government is behaving is a National Security RISK to The American People.. Period!!!! Jesus you can't even drive to the corner for a pack of smokes without being pulled over in a 50,000 $ vehicle and told you didnt signal for a lane change. Its out of control.I have owned 2 homes in 2 states and I don't care who knows it. I owe no money to anyone and OLD MONEY is close by but this is a joke..

BTW The Constitution was founded on the fact that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and have Inalienable rights GIVEN BY GOD. Not just Americans. ALL MEN and if I have to explain that to you, then I am talking to the wrong person. Don't you dare make Americans out to be this TRASH in OFFICE...I don't need to see a show of hands to decide if murder and slaughter is something I will agree with. Respectfully yours..

PS Where re these WMD's that you say were found? I want to see the proof., not notes..

Originally posted by CherubBaby
You know I will make it crystal clear. . The Bush administration created 911. He is a f-kin traitor and his cabnet.The intel was their brainchild. Thats why Powell never played with them again. He was punked on national TV. He didnt like being the patsy for info that he later found out was crap.

The level of parnoia and the ability to only see what one wants is problematic... Stop letting blind hatred and paranoid conspiracy theories affect your ability for rational reasoning and the application of common sense. The new past time seems to be just making up theories and portraying them as proof, with absolutely no evidence to support it . We seem to fall back to blanket comments / stereotyping instead of reviewing it incident by incident.

As for your 9/11 comments take it to the 9/11 conspiracy thread where the points you raised here have been rehashed there.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
BTW The Constitution was founded on the fact that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and have Inalienable rights GIVEN BY GOD. Not just Americans. ALL MEN and if I have to explain that to you, then I am talking to the wrong person. Don't you dare make Americans out to be this TRASH in OFFICE...I don't need to see a show of hands to decide if murder and slaughter is something I will agree with. Respectfully yours..

A few things -
Murder / slaughter - You do understand that during war, casualties occur right? While I respect your moral view on this, I dont think you are seeing the big picture. You seem to base your argument on Domestic US laws, which arent applicable in this case, or at least thats what im seeing.

The Declaration of Independance contains the phrase "All men are created equal," not the US Constitution.
Inalienable rights, again, is found in the Declaration of Independance, not the Constitution.

While the Constitution is based somewhat on that document the created equal cooent you made is not entirely accurate. Here are just a few of them are listed for you to see what im talking about.

* - If they did we wouldnt need a consitutional amendment giving women the right to vote - 19th amnd.
* - We wouldnt need a consitituional amendment ending slavery - 13th
* - We wouldnt need a constitutional amendment ending endentured servitude - 13th
* - We wouldnt need a constitutional amendment that prohibits the denial of suffrage based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude - 15th Amendment

All of which, prior to these amendments, restricted those listed to a few people. I point this out because you are claiming the Constitution has been violated and you want people held accountible for violating it, yet you dont bother to take into account amendments, USSC rulings etc, imo anyways.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
PS Where re these WMD's that you say were found? I want to see the proof., not notes..

edit on 15-11-2011 by CherubBaby because: Text typo

edit on 15-11-2011 by CherubBaby because: (no reason given)

First off start with the following:
UN Resolutions 660 thru 678
UN Resolutions 685 thru 715 / 773 and 778 / 806 and 833 / 899 and 949 / 986 - These listed Resolutions from the UN deal specifically with Iraqis actions begingin after the gulf war I, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. There are many many many more resolutions after than, ending with UN Resolution 1441, just prior to the war.

Once you understand the history of the ongoing wmd issues with Iraq, follow up by using wikileaks to locate the offical document. I am not going to post the document itself since its still considered callsified, and possession of and distribution of classified material is a violation of the National Security act as well as Federal Law.

WMD's located in Iraq - Wired
WMDs located in Iraq - New York Post

The reason for reading the resolutions first is to understand that Iraq was to have no / none / zilch / nada / zip elements for ANY wmd program. Near the end of 2003 all the way up until 2008 WMDs were recovered all over the place. People argue the amount of WMDS found if small and irrelevent. The problem - They arent suppose to have ANY. Secondly its possible to use those small amounts to jumpstart a larger program.

I dont agree with your position and you dont agre with mine, and thats perfectly fine. You hate Bush, Bush, Clinton etc, which is your right. My only advice would be to research all of the info and seek the truth on your own, instead of allowing personal feelings interfere / cloud your quest, again imo.

Since we arent exactly seeing eye to eye, how about we agree to disagree and move on so we dont completely derail the thread anymore than we have?

To bring it back around, are you opposed to all drone strikes? If so why? Do you think the US should be attacked in order to justify drone strikes?

Xcathdra,

You disgust me sir. The world if entirely too full intellectually casual judgment that totally ignores the intent of God in men's hearts. To only see the need to be a casual judge amongst men and your truths to be considered the only valid truths is always folly. Man, through his mind will always end in ruin. Through his heart is his only chance, however slim this chance will be.

Originally posted by Apollumi
Xcathdra,

You disgust me sir. The world if entirely too full intellectually casual judgment that totally ignores the intent of God in men's hearts. To only see the need to be a casual judge amongst men and your truths to be considered the only valid truths is always folly. Man, through his mind will always end in ruin. Through his heart is his only chance, however slim this chance will be.

edit on 17-11-2011 by Apollumi because: (no reason given)

Well im sorry to hear that. Is there anything I can explain to you that you dont understand to better help you understand what I am saying in my posts?

As far as your comment on judgment and God thats entirely your opinion. However I will take notice your opinion doesnt seem to apply to any other group other than the United states. Any particular reason why?

I get what you are saying however I dont think you and some others adequately understand what is going on in the world. What you see on tv is barely a scratch on the surface. I have seen my fair share of officer safety bulletins / miac reports / etc, which is why my view is a bit different than yours.

Its easy to throw rocks while standing on the outside. Instead of throwing rocks, how about you come into the house and help fix the issues? I know thats a lot harder than monday morning quarterbacking decisions made where you dont have all of the details / facts, however the reward for doing whats hard and unpopular, trying to make changes to a system you either dont completely understand or dont completely agree with , is worth the effort if we are to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

REspects

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by CherubBaby

 

The areas the drones are hitting are the parts inside Pakistan where the Pakistani government wont even go. They, Pakistani government, have made several deals with the extremists in those areas.

They attack cross border into Afghanistan.

Is there any reason we shouldnt respond? They dont seem to care who they target, so why not return the favor?

love the drones , i think it is one of the best and most effective weapons we have in the fight against terror. If i knew that drones were coming in to whack bad guys i would not be within 100 miles of any of them.