The Tide is Turning

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


I think the point you are missing is this:

While most all human beings admire those willing to stand up for what they believe is RIGHT and JUST many of us also see LOTS and LOTS ...perhaps even the majority there not for what is *right* and *just* for ALL...but to promote their own group's agenda....

The difference in what you are talking about and what the majority of the 99% *the REAL 99%* see when we look at OWS is something totally out of the control of those there for what they believe to be worth fighting for. It's becoming more and more dangerous situation by the day....

I can look at what your OP is about...and when I do I see much of what some of the posts you find off topic are saying

You can't have one without the other...sorry, it's the real world, with real human beings and real differences, and here is comes................real human natures. Not Utopia

Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

Most of the people who attack the movement we have all been hoping for have never even been to a protest, they are arm chair revolutionaries, understand this, no matter what they will attack it.

Exactly... I was even skeptical myself until i went. Most the people were friendly and kind. They weren't unbathed hippies"not that that is a bad thing" unemployed bottom feeders with a hand out like the OWS haters claim. Like wanting an education is such a bad thing either. Like people rather skip college and flip burgers until they die. No not everyone was born in to money ya know...It takes money to go to college and the more people you deny an education expect more of an American waste land. But the elite don't see it that way or some of our members.

The OWS I attended was mostly blue collar folks like myself, they were your normal average joe.. they were like everyone else you see on the street. The haters had me thinking i was going to expect Woodstock lol. The people slandering these great citizens need a reality check... maybe see a head shrink I dont know but they sure distort reality and have no idea what they are talking about.


It's shameful and pathetic


Photo from Occupy i was at...



BTW what is with the hate with the unemployed? Millions of jobs were outsourced and millions were laid off due to circumstances that were out of their control and are having a hard time finding work. Then i see the anti OWS arm chair revolutionaries hating "hippies" like hippies are such bad people. last time i checked hippies were about peace and love? Unlike those war hawks and extortionists. Why are these anti OWS people so intolerant of positivity? They strike me most the time being as rich elite snobs or holier than thou? Normal people i know..most people don't have a hatred toward hippies and people down on their luck. Disturbing to know some people think this way.

tl;dr

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


OWS= Brownshirts of the 21st Century. In Militia Nations like the US, typical brownshirting wouldn't fly too well. So the brownshirts have to "play the role of the victim" in order to establish power. It is no coincidence that many, many progressive traitor groups, are assisting the OWS crowd. Look at the OWS attempt at majority rule type rhetoric.

This is nothing more then an Obama instigated thuggery. Remember how he has been spending the last year or so trying to encourage Unions and other Civil activist's groups to "force him" to push for rapid, extreme changes(communism).

It is just like the Nazi brownshirts. Most of the brownshirts in Germany where actually members of a Veterans Group(mostly impoverished) that was merged into the Nazi's private security force. The same pattern is appearing with the OWS crowd. A large group of useful idiots around the outside, and out and out progressive/marxist types controlling the inside. Heck the OWS already has many National Socialist's(Nazi's) in the movement, as well as growing anti-semetic rhetoric.. I am just saying, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is indeed a duck.

Look at how Progressive type leaders have aided the OWS movement by doing suspiciously dumb things that just seem to continuously up the ante. Like Police that love to keep on targeting Vet's. This whole things reeks of an almost Bolshevik type attempt at overthrowing our Constitutional way of life.

Originally posted by gentledissident
I have to admit, it's good to see people taking to the streets. Occupy might not be far enough to the left for me, but at least it's stating the problems inherent in the system. I don't think you can avoid the problems without designing a new system, but at least they are pointing out problems to the segment of the population who is A, aware of Occupy and B, on that particular fence.

Not far left enough? How much left can it get after the Communist Party joins?

After watching 60 Minutes last night on CBS ,Jack Abramoff gave me some serious pause. Jack said he had 100 congressional offices of both parties bought when he was a lobbyist. I thought to myself This is why there are people in the streets now protesting.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


I have a bad feeling I'm going to regret jumping in here, but oh well, here goes.

Do I support civic and political protest in general? Yes, I do, but I find the question itself to be a great tragedy. I believe that if this country had remained what it was originally supposed to be according to the founding fathers and to the others over the years who have helped defend those original principles, the question of whether or not there should be support for those who have the courage, determination, fortitude, etc., to protest en mass or to demonstrate for or against something, would be a question that no one would even think to ask because it would be every citizen's responsibility and not merely the choice of a few people.

The fact that we find ourselves debating whether or not a group of people are somehow special because they are taking time out of their lives to vigorously participate in a political movement, protest, or demonstration is what bothers me the most. If our country had evolved the way our founding fathers envisioned, every single citizen who saw their legislators doing something they disagreed with would be protesting or demonstrating about it. Our founding fathers foresaw a populace that would keep itself continually informed, consciously aware, and fully participating in every little thing their government did. Our founding fathers envisioned a populace who actually read every word of proposed legislation and were then thoughtfully communicating their strong disagreement, agreement or their own ideas, directly to their legislators before the legislators voted on it.

Yes, the representatives and legislators themselves are partly to blame for intentionally encouraging us to be lazy about paying attention to what they are doing. They have conditioned us to just acquiesce and leave all the "boring complicated stuff" up to them. But We The People, myself included, are all heavily to blame for allowing them to do it, for allowing our government to slip so far out of our hands, the hands of the individual citizens of this country.

If our country was closer to the founding fathers' original vision, we would have no need to ask if small groups of protesters were worthy of our respect, because it would be a given that fully engaged political protest was a civic duty and not an action worthy of praise. Very simply, no one should be rewarded with "points" or "gold stars" for doing something they should have been doing anyways. It kind of reminds me of when a guy (or a girl) whose wife or girlfriend (or husband or boyfriend) dumped them say something like "I don't know why she (he) dumped me. I never cheated on her (him) or anything." It's great that you were faithful and all, but you should not get points for not doing something you should not have done anyways.

What I'm saying is, I find it very very sad that our country has ended up in such a bad situation, so far off from the original plan, that we are talking about praising people or awarding them "brownie points" for doing something that, in theory, We The People should all have been doing all along. I believe we have no one to blame but ourselves for allowing our government to slip away from us. And given the vast apathy, lack of critical thinking skills, and general political ignorance of our current society, I freely admit that I have no idea how we are ever going to claim it back and keep it from slipping out of our grasp again.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters




As was begun in Madison, WI. these citizens are telling the world they are fed up with everything in society being reduced to no more than monetary considerations. And that, so often, in terms of "freedom". There is much more to life than material profit. It is OK to be successful and rich. It is not OK to make money on the backs of others who get hurt in the process. THIS is the complaint. Economic abuse is the issue, not money.

I respect the peaceful...but that does not get everyones attention, Protesting will not fix the country/global economy..hard work, graft, innovation and love will.

Do these people have jobs? Bills to pay? If they do then they themselves must be very well off to spend this amount of time standing out in the cold. Although if they have used all their annual leave on this then that would be very admirable! I think the real 99% more than likely couldn't afford to take time off work to do this for this amount of time!

As I said, when this represents the working people that keep their respective country afloat by being the most taxed and the least state funded, then I'll book all my annual leave to be out there and what will be will be. Until then, I'm not for this movement as I think its agenda is counter productive and very subjective, a mish-mash of everyone's pet hates fused together to create some form of manifesto. When you put all the trash aside and realise that its the average workers that any alternative manifesto to the current typical global government tyranny should be created for, regardless of the lack of personal benefit for say, the unemployed who wish to remain so, then you will get all workers supporting you from cleaners to the Police. That's when you'll get your revolution.

Until then, this will be laughable at best and forgettable at most.

I really liked the way this thread began. Lets face it, if you are on this board you are either against the system and looking for change or you are a troll, shill etc... There ain't a whole lot in between. Many folks here work for Giyus and the like, but most are fed up, and looking to kick the matrix in the balls and live a free, vital life.

Since I started writing my blog over two years ago, the one thing I really noticed was how few people where willing to engage my ideas, and how many where hell bent on making personal attacks against me. I have reached with some articles quite a few readers, maybe even 100K plus, with some quite controversial ideas, and very few people will even touch on them. They call me names but steer clear of my ideas. Where did this come from? Well, those of us who turned off the TV a few years ago understand exactly where it came from. They create this ridiculous red/blue, left/right, communist/fascist worldview, and then demand that we pick a team. Most people who use the word fascist or communist don't have the slightest idea what it means.

I propose that we simply ignore all comments that engage in labeling. Totally ignore all of them. Lets discuss the topics. Anyone frequenting this board, (who isn't a paid troll) "gets" the spirit of OWS.
Ideologically, they are all over the place, and that is fine, When I was 25, I didn't know my ass from a whole in the ground either. The point is, these kids realize that something is terribly wrong, and they are pointing it out, and creating a lot of awareness. Those of us a bit older, with clearer ideas, need to run through this big whole they have made and stop whining like a bunch of cowards. The kids did their job, now lets do ours. Here is my article that came out of this OWS, this is doable, non-violent and easy to ramp up.

The Infomocracy Dilemma: Revolution or Disengagement?

Its a question of what the behind concepts of the movement are. At last there is any movement in these times. Same with 9th November actions, which are great, BUT it takes something BIG to happen that this nation can be freed.

Actually, there is a concept, movement, plan whatever you name it ,that is able to lead into the 21st century.
Its called social threefolding. Its goal is the think-capitalism-to its-end. and was developed from Rudolf Steiner in the early 20th century.
READ THIS, GET INFORMED , really great, and already working in parts in germany and elsewhere on the globe:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.threefolding.org...

IMO, the crucial message from OWS is "We're not happy with the way you're ruining our world and we want real change now." The mechanics of achieving change is complicated and from what I've read and seen, there's a lot of great ideas coming forward on how to make it happen. Who's right and who's wrong?; only time will tell. Perhaps it's a mix of solutions that are required and hopefully the strengths will show and be built upon and the whole movement will evolve into an unstoppable force.

These people are definitely fighting - sometimes even for physical survival against the stormtroopers. Their courage and fear in the face of a determined enemy is not lessened just because they're not part of our armed mercenary force invading 3rd world countries for fun and profit.

Unfortunately I cannot be out there with them due to my commitments caring for my disabled wife. Hence I have to do my bit behind the scenes. It's not much but it's what I can give.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


This isn't it, this is too controlled, I mean these business people get pissed about you taking 50$ from them, they are not going to let any kind of genuine movement against them reach a position of popular standing whereby they could take some real financial battering, not as though that would mean anything..
This movement isn't going to change anything, actually im very dissapointed that a whole bunch of supposedly "savvy" people are just so ignorant of their true situation.
which is,
Currently on the street begging for solutions to problems thrown in their face and not created by themselves.

Their will be a TRUE utopian revolution on this earth but it is a long long long long way away, and it will happen and no one will notice that it has happened, because we will all be different people.
The people who have control at the moment are trying to sequester the rest of humanity, under their control, for the long term future, (read millenia) begging for financial change will not stop that, and is only tantamount to asking for a cushion because your cell floor is now too hard.
When the freedom of humanity as a whole makes it on to the agenda, wake me up. (and you will find this is all i have EVER!!! been interested in).

reply to post by Onthebeach


Either against the system or a troll shill,

Ummm, only inside your head, just because i see you all asking for exactly what you have been programmed to ask for, just because their isnt a spontaneous and genuine movement, just because their are links leading back to the Lucis trust and the United Nations, just because all this is going to do is give the 1% exactly what they want again, just because ACORN was involved in the organisation of this, just because i point this out, it does not make me a shill.
This is just a tiny little side trip on the road to humanities freedom, like a 1 inch journey in a trek across the cosmos, nothing they are doing will provide anything like "Freedom".
I'll be having goat for lunch, providing they try to cross my bridge.

Originally posted by raiders247
So you say you stand behind those who "fight" for what they believe in no matter what the belief is, then with that logic, why are gangsters and gangbangers not treated with the same respect and admiration? They are groups of people who are willing to die for what they believe in, whether you agree with their motives or not. So even though I agreed with much of the OP, I still see the glaring hypocrisy in your statements... Happy Flame Throwing!

Actually, gangbangers are willing to kill for what they believe in. They aren't so willing to die because as soon as one is killed, their friends enact revenge. That is not willingness to die for what they believe.

But the problem here is this, we have a Constitution that allows citizens to protest for grievances against the government. I am a Constitution believer and by that, I have to say they can protest. But they can't destroy other peoples property while doing it, that is something they need to understand. A protest where they destroy property is nothing more than throwing a temper tantrum. And if they are throwing a tantrum, they can't be taken seriously.

They are not really fighting, they are just throwing tantrums.

First you have to ask yourselves what is it that occupy is actually protesting for. Do they know themselves as a collective. Many know that they are protesting something but what. Many are there because they know that the current system is corrupt and not working yet their proposals to fix the system only contain more systems E.G socialism that will succumb to the same problems. There is nothing wrong with many of these systems. What is wrong with the current system is a total lack of real leadership and a massive amount of dishonesty. People that are not the elites do not get listened to and have there vested interests walked all over so that they feel that protesting is the only avenue that they can be heard. Society should not exist for the one per cent but should exist for everybody. Some of the things like a fair and just court system, a truly independent reserve banking system owned and influence by no one especially vested interests, people elected to positions of power that have had their characters thoroughly dissected for character flaws and have the ability to carry out their duties to the high standard expected. If news media can not prove a fact beyond reasonable doubt then it should be stated as an opinion and it should be made illegal for media to express an opinion of a vested interest that they were influenced by without mentioning the name of the vested interest. When ever a political decision is made any and all vested interests (especially political donations) should be mentioned in large easy to understand form. The constitutions of various countries should also be strengthened. These are some of the things that i think that they are fighting for.

i believe they are true patriotsbecause of the fact they are doing what they are doing the true voice of america speaks and people need to be heard. the thing that sucks is the anti american anti patriots are the ones with the guns. POWER TO THE PEOPLE is how i feel

i believe they are true patriotsbecause of the fact they are doing what they are doing the true voice of america speaks and people need to be heard. the thing that sucks is the anti american anti patriots are the ones with the guns. POWER TO THE PEOPLE is how i feel

Originally posted by Qspeedyrock
First you have to ask yourselves what is it that occupy is actually protesting for. Do they know themselves as a collective. Many know that they are protesting something but what. Many are there because they know that the current system is corrupt and not working yet their proposals to fix the system only contain more systems E.G socialism that will succumb to the same problems. There is nothing wrong with many of these systems. What is wrong with the current system is a total lack of real leadership and a massive amount of dishonesty. People that are not the elites do not get listened to and have there vested interests walked all over so that they feel that protesting is the only avenue that they can be heard. Society should not exist for the one per cent but should exist for everybody. Some of the things like a fair and just court system, a truly independent reserve banking system owned and influence by no one especially vested interests, people elected to positions of power that have had their characters thoroughly dissected for character flaws and have the ability to carry out their duties to the high standard expected. If news media can not prove a fact beyond reasonable doubt then it should be stated as an opinion and it should be made illegal for media to express an opinion of a vested interest that they were influenced by without mentioning the name of the vested interest. When ever a political decision is made any and all vested interests (especially political donations) should be mentioned in large easy to understand form. The constitutions of various countries should also be strengthened. These are some of the things that i think that they are fighting for.

No, they don't really know. Their leadership is dishonest. But most of the problems in this country is not because the 1% takes advantage, but that 75% of the 99% took advantage of the system and helped to break it. And most of these people really do not know history, they don't believe the lessons of Marxist Socialism.

There have been times in history where people protested and it was right to do so, for instance the Miners Strikes of the 1930s were about fair employment and wages for those working in coal mines. This link is from the documentary of the miners strike in Harlan, Kentucky in 1976. www.youtube.com...

The miners were striking for better working conditions and wages, this protest worked for them because it was honorable. They had clear leadership, they had exact reasons and they had the right, because these were not just people crying that "the system was broken" rather, they said the system needs to be fixed and did what they could to fix it. They did not destroy public or private property.

The difference in the OWS and the miners? A real cause.

Originally posted by anthaltie
i believe they are true patriotsbecause of the fact they are doing what they are doing the true voice of america speaks and people need to be heard. the thing that sucks is the anti american anti patriots are the ones with the guns. POWER TO THE PEOPLE is how i feel

Power to what people? They are not the voice of me, and I consider myself a patriot. I don't think a bunch of temper-tantrum, bandwagon jumpers even know what they are doing.