I agree. Its about time that we started to talk about the issues being raised by the people at these protests and not what side of the political spectrum they come from.

I share the concern of most of those that sympathise with OWS that the current financial system is crooked and that things can't continue this way.

Unless I can be persuaded that the current system is good I will continue lending my support to OWS. Maybe that is another starting point that those who oppose OWS could deal with - why should the current system of laws / regulations covering the financial system (including the Fed) be kept?

Every major change has to start with a spark. The OWS movement has flaws, IMO, but the idea of people fighting to change things for the better of the country? That's an idea I can definitely get behind. That's what America and patriotism is all about.

In the 60s, there was violence and hatred and people were hurt and even killed during the uprising of the citizens, but the movement brought about much-needed change. It's time again, for the people to take control of their country. It will take time and people will interfere and try desperately to stop them, but I cannot find fault with the overall idea and I support any change from the status quo, because I believe it will eventually bring change that we need.

Changes are INEVITABLE.

It is inborn in the human spirit.

We are race of flawed beings, prone to errors, but fully capable of correcting them once one or many others realized such errors, so that progress and evolution may happen. History is replete of these happenings, either peacefully, or by blood.

In our apathetic world, OWS was an amazing discovery, that courageous people in an apathetic democracy would still stand up and protest. The Arab Spring no doubt were of equal bravery, but their pain was immense where blood of innocents were spilt by rulers, and then only more rose up, and today, they stand tall, ready to forge a new better path for progress and evolultion.

But OWS made a peaceful stand, captured the imagination of a nation as well as a world uncomfortable with the blatant errors they are seeing daily in religio-socio-political and economic circumstances, despite paid media's whitewash, and many took a stand as well.

It even attracted MAJOR non-governmental organisations of different doctrines, environment and different religious organisations , bodies which had no link to OWS but bonded by the pillars of common ground that ALL humans share - equality, justice, peace, shared prosperity, progress, freedom, despite and inspite of any conceivable differences created by man.

Thus their stance with OWS, the very same pillars that OWS is standing up for, despite the cold, the agression by rulers and discomforts.

And it will be such common grounds that more will take to the streets in the face of feigned ignorance by unwise political and economic leaders whom will not correct their errors, peacefully, when given that chance. The other choice will be painful to contemplate, as the leaders of nations found out when Arab Spring occured .

Some of my favorite quotes on revolution are by JFK and Thomas Jefferson.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

“Every generation needs a new revolution.” - Thomas Jefferson.

It's not just that the system is built "against" us, but it evolved that way. Times change, people change, beliefs change...and government needs to respect those changes and change with them! People need to fight for what they believe in, no matter what that belief is.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Lets just take a break from the partisan bickering for a minute. Lets forget what you think you know about OWS for a second.

Assumptive, Front loaded thread right off the bat.
Continue....

Even if you feel they are misguided, wrong, or evil, just stop and reflect on what these people are doing.

I view the headlines and what people both {Pro and Con} have to say here at ATS and elsewhere.
Continue....

They are taking time out of their lives to go fight for what they believe is right. do you have the guts to fight for what you believe in?

Yes, and I have.
Continue...

Will you stand in the cold, taking tear gas and rubber bullets, to stand for a principle?

No, Not Rubber Bullets.
Lead ones.

If you won't fight to remake the world in a way you feel is fair and right, who will? If a true movement of the population can't change the system, shouldn't the system be destroyed?

A true movement by "Some" of the people who don't speak for the majority. Let's face it and setting "Politics" aside. Not everybody believes in the manner in which they are protesting nor location. I've said numerous times that I support the general premise of the movement. However, When anybody takes an objective look at it and their various activities and asks hard hitting question they're oftentimes ridiculed and are thrown names at like Sheeple, mindless drones, Shills, Neocons etc etc etc... ad infinitum.

So I agree let's discuss the issues, Provide solutions and stop with the rhetoric from all sides.

The problem I see is the erroneous belief by some OWS supporters that there is some gigantic mythical polarization between those who support OWS and those who look at it objectively.

The Tide is Turning..
Yes, but in which direction?

I am not "pro occupy" or against it by no means. To me it's just not organized enough to represent me and my convictions. although I share some of the points of the movement, others are just down right way too lefty for me.

Although I believe in "free healthcare" I also believe in a two tier system where the 1% can PAY for expedited surgery and care in private hospitals. Although I believe in a higher tax bracket for the 1% I also stand for the self made entrepreneur that scarified most of it to be where he/she is at today. As a millionaire enterprise business owner he/she should pay a fair share of taxes in the salary, as the business he/she owns should be given tax brakes to encourage the business to stay in the country and hire local folks.

Banks are now multi billion corporations, no more is the private bank owner, these banks should be taxed appropriately according to gross quarterly revenues, there is just no way to justify providing tax credits to banks, none!!!

Get America running again, encourage GM, Ford, Chrysler to build a better product, simple as that, offer tax credits for vehicles that are green and let's stop this "marketing" of hybrid cars and electric cars that can only run 200 miles on a charge. We have the technology to make cars that will self charge as they run, we can make these cars and we can make them better than any other country in the world, let just start now and kick every other makers butt !!! Simple as that!!!

Occupying parts of cities is a great gesture, it shows that some people are starting to get fed up with the complete injustice of corrupt capitalism. Get the lobbyists our of politics, let the governors be elected democratically ( 1 citizen = 1 vote ) let the POTUS be elected democratically in the same fashion, 1 citizen = 1 vote. Maybe if we did elect correctly the elected would be more grounded to the people and make fair divisions.
When was the last time a non millionaire or filthy rich candidate elected to President, when was one responsible for his own wallet, hi own decisions, hi own people? These days candidates run million dollar fund raisers rubbing shoulders with the pocket books of power, the more money you donate the louder the voice is in the President's ear, the Governor's ear, the judge's ear and so on and so forth.


Yes..."Occupy" has got a foot on the ground and heading is the general right direction so far and I for one would love to see it get more structured and have a louder voice and now thousands of faint ones. Let's give it time, a little helps and effort when you can and see where it brings the voice of the people!

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Lets just stop and reflect on what these people are TRYING to do. Even if you feel they are misguided, wrong, or evil, just stop and reflect on what these people are doing.

But how can I reflect on what they are trying to do when they themselves do not know what they are trying to do?

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
They are taking time out of their lives to go fight for what they believe is right

Well firstly I think they are protesting not for what they believe is right but because of a current situation which they think is wrong.
And I agree with them, it is wrong, no argument there.

It's the right part i disagree with.
Firstly they don't know what is right, and for the few who know I completely disagree with them and to be honest I don't find them to be too bright.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
If you won't fight to remake the world in a way you feel is fair and right, who will? If a true movement of the population can't change the system, shouldn't the system be destroyed?

Firstly who are saying two things here
You are saying that something needs to be done, sure agreed
As far as what you think is fair and right..... what do they think is fair and right?
Wanting everything free at the expense of everyone?

Or is it a philosophical protest saying capitalism would work if wallstreet were more patriotic?
A philosophical stance is fine, I love such things

But all the are doing is taking away accountability and focusing on the symptoms rather than the root of the problems and I can't stand behind that.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Ignore what they are fighting for, and just reflect on the fact that these people, in nations all over the earth, are standing in the cold fighting for something. Even if you disagree with what they are fighting for, can you not at least RESPECT them for actually trying?

I understand what you are saying here, or at least I know where you are coming from.
They are working hard some of them sure
But how can you respect people who work hard for the wrong reasons?

These protestors have spirit sure, but they lack knowledge and wisdom way too much for them to represent the 99%.
They completely don't get what the problem is but let's support them because they are commited?

The only good thing I can say is that this is a good learning process to know what NOT to do when a real protest that I support will happen.
Firstly, you NEED a goal, your movement needs a manifesto and your movement should not be so different from state to state, even perhaps county to county.
There should be tidy protests too where the protestors clean up after themselves rather than leaving a huge mess for the city to pick up later.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
the image of the young child holding up a sign that says "Can I have my future back" really hit me in the gut.

I feel you but that's part of the problem
Too much emotion and not enough thinking

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters


If you won't fight to remake the world in a way you feel is fair and right, who will? If a true movement of the population can't change the system, shouldn't the system be destroyed?

The world does not need remaking.
The US needs to be restored back to the original design.
There is the difference between me and OWS.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
I clearly stated that this thread is not about why they are protesting, or how some people are acting. This thread is related to the fact that some people are fed up and taking action, and how people feel about that.

Again, it's not about the motives, the people, or the cause, it's about the fact that people are still willing to TRY to fight for what they believe.

Is it that hard to comment on that and that alone?

Of Course it is!!!!!

How can you comment on alot of passion that has no substance without talking about the lack of substance?

Also you just said, I quoted you, that this thread is about people who are fed up and taking action.
So what's wrong with talking about these "actions"?

I'm sure you didn't want a zombie thread where people talk about how they feel about the passion of protesters and not the protests themselves.

You know what is? That's called pandering to one's emotions, it's usually what dirty politicians do.
They pander to your emotions and thereby do not need to talk about real issues

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters

Yet your entire post proposes the opposite. Besides, I clearly stated that this thread is not about why they are protesting, or how some people are acting. This thread is related to the fact that some people are fed up and taking action, and how people feel about that.

There's the rub...

Opposite of what?
YOUR views?

You ask people to set politics aside. I have. Yet, because you disagree with what I've contributed YOU ASSUME it's in opposition to the Cause....

There's nothing "loaded" about this thread other than people trying to load it with partisan bickering. There's enough of that.

In the world according to phishyblankwaters.
Starting to get my drift?

So, if your intent was to actually stay on topic, you failed. Your post could be condensed into 1 line.

Not everybody believes in the manner in which they are protesting nor location. I've said numerous times that I support the general premise of the movement.

SEE!
This is exactly the point.

"If you are not with us then you are against us."

KNOCK it off and look in the freaking mirror.

Again, it's not about the motives, the people, or the cause, it's about the fact that people are still willing to TRY to fight for what they believe.

I have no issues with that. Their collective actions does raise eyerows though. How am I suppose to support a group when they ignore the outcome of some of their actions that routinely get overlooked and passed off as the actions of a few bad apples who do not represent the whole?

If I raise a question them I'm immediately accused of politics.

Is it that hard to comment on that and that alone?

If I were you I'd ask that of myself.
Fair enough?