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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by weirdguy
lastly - what payload is it going to support @ that altitude ???
sorry - but my opinion is this will only be of use as a cheap way to loft low mass instrument packages and imageing systems to the stratosphere
Originally posted by Aim64C
It would be, by my estimation, a much better idea to use a "flying fortress" of balloons to place a mid-way station.
With the proper ballast systems, you could lower the system (use stored solar power to compress some of the gasses from the float-balloons) and deliver supplies - perhaps landing in the ocean (a very low descent) - or accepting air-delivered supplies (very similar to how supplies are delivered by low-flying military aircraft) while still at 10-20 thousand feet.
From this station, you would base aerospace airframes designed to deliver supplies to orbiting entities or to send manned repair crews up to unmanned stations.
Originally posted by weirdguy
Airship reaches 95,000 ft
www.skynews.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)
DIY inventors have claimed a new altitude world record after flying a helium airship to more than 95,000ft.
We've spent about $30,000 ($A29,000) and the past five years developing Tandem.'
Originally posted by St Udio
www.youtube.com...
Man parachutes from 102, 800 feet
this was in 1960, but i recall other jumps, free falls in the late 1950s from the edge of Space
In 1960 Joe Kitinger jumped from a specialised helium balloon at just over 102, 800 feet. (approx 20 miles), he fell to Earth at the speed of sound but had no sensation of his speed...edit on 8-11-2011 by St Udio because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by purplemer
It would be nice if they used airships for travel more, instead of planes all the time...
Originally posted by Curious and Concerned
Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Flyinghaggis
i dont care wether you agree or not - but please tell us how this tech would get a 10000kg payload to 42 km ?
I did some quick calculations using the data here for air at 40,000m (131,000 ft). I assumed that the pressure inside the balloon was equal to that of the air outside the balloon, and assumed that the helium mass could be approximated using the ideal gas law (using R values from the textbook "Fundamentals of Thermal-Fluid Sciences"). I ignored the mass of the balloon itself, and the mass of the structure, so these values I get are rather conservative. I tried to estimate the size of the balloons required for a tandem balloon airship to support 100,000 kg at 40,000m.
I assumed the shape of the balloons to be spherical, which has the least surface area compared to it's overall dimension for any shape. Any other shape would increase the amount of balloon required, hence increase over all mass.
I calculated that each of the 2 balloons would need to have a diameter of approximately 302.5 metres. Bearing in mind that this did not take into account the mass of the balloons or the support structure which would have to be at least as long as 302.5 metres to support the balloons. This added mass would make the balloons even larger.
Given that these are conservative estimates, these would have to be some serious balloons to handle winds and severe weather whilst reaching those heights. These calculations are pretty rough, and I can show working if anyone wants it. I might even write some simple MATLAB code to calculate the required volume of balloon, and try to take into account things like mass of balloon and structure. But it's past my bedtime and I shall go to bed now.
Edit to add: silly me, I used a payload of 100,000 kg instead of 10,000kg as you had stated. I think that's a sign I need to go to bed now.edit on 8/11/11 by Curious and Concerned because: see above
Originally posted by Flyinghaggis
reply to post by weirdguy
A triumph for alternative thinking, it is so simple and cheap !
NASA you're fired.
Originally posted by weirdguy
reply to post by Curious and Concerned
Cool! Does this mean that we only need 30 meter balloons to lift 10,000kg ?
Originally posted by earthdude
Heating the helium would give the craft the ability to lift even more.
Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by Curious and Concerned
Thanks for that PDF....I plan on reading it when I've got a chance. I'm quite interested in their 'electric propulsion'. If they mean like a 'Lifter' which uses high voltage electrostatic to create an Ionic wind then I'm curious as how it's supposed to work when the atmosphere is so thin, as most scientists suggest such crafts need to ionize the air around them to create thrust. Or perhaps they have discovered a new way entirely? Some sort of Electro-gravitic 'anti-gravity' technology perhaps? (then again if they had that, I doubt they'd bother with the whole balloon bit!)
Originally posted by monkofmimir
I love it!
If this is viable it makes Nasa's chemical rockets look a bit silly.
This just goes to show there are often less brute force solutions to life.
and lets just face it airships are cool
Originally posted by Curious and Concerned
Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by Curious and Concerned
Thanks for that PDF....I plan on reading it when I've got a chance. I'm quite interested in their 'electric propulsion'. If they mean like a 'Lifter' which uses high voltage electrostatic to create an Ionic wind then I'm curious as how it's supposed to work when the atmosphere is so thin, as most scientists suggest such crafts need to ionize the air around them to create thrust. Or perhaps they have discovered a new way entirely? Some sort of Electro-gravitic 'anti-gravity' technology perhaps? (then again if they had that, I doubt they'd bother with the whole balloon bit!)
I'm pretty sure their "electric propulsion" systems are merely propellers designed to operate at high altitudes, powered by electricity. Although I must say, your suggestions sound far cooler