No Sunspots visible from the ISS!

The ISS would seem like a good place to get some photos of sunspots. Very little atmosphere, no attenuation of some of the wavelengths lost on their way to Earth. A full spectrum view.
I can not find any images of the Sun taken from the ISS, or sunspots. Maybe my search terms are at fault, so would appreciate it if others may have a try. I can find no information on sunspot research from the ISS, but there is SOLAR:

SOLAR, studies the Sun with unprecedented accuracy across most of its spectral range. This is currently scheduled to last two years. SOLAR is located on the Columbus External Payload Facility zenith position (i.e. pointing away from the Earth).

www.esa.int...
Again, I can find no information on the results of this experiment.
Now I'm wondering if it is possible to take a photo, or a video of sunspots, from the ISS.
Solar filter and camera manufacturers have told me their devices will work just fine in space, and that no one has wanted to photo sunspots from the ISS. Does this sound right? Wouldn't you want to see sunspots from up there?
And don't tell me SOHO takes pictures of the Sun. It is NOT a camera. It uses some very complicated instruments to get data, which is converted to the pretty pictures they show us. I want images taken with a regular camera, using a filter.

IT would seem like the ISS would be a great place for that, but it is traveling very fast in orbit, and Nasa already uses other Instrumental Craft to do this. So maybe they think it would be a waste of time, who knows. Good point though

reply to post by GaryN


LASCO, on SOHO, is a camera. Actually, 3 cameras. What makes you think they're not?
And then there's STEREO A and B, both of which have several cameras.

On-board the ISS they have a fancy 3D camera for live streaming, and they've had quite a few standard (mostly Nikon) digital cameras. Here's a couple picture taken with those:





Now, tell me, why do they need to image the sun from the ISS when they've got specialized equipment for doing so on-board STEREO and SOHO?

I think it would be a lousy platform for observation. It is moving to fast and would see the sun 15-16 times a day. Not very stable for long observations. Maybe an occasional image but then you need filters too.

Reminds me...if it is clear enough I plan to get some more images tonight! I have photographed the sun for many years now it would be cool to film it from space too!

OH and also bet they could put on some #14 or darker welding googls to see it...that would be cool!

Originally posted by Glassbender777
IT would seem like the ISS would be a great place for that, but it is traveling very fast in orbit, and Nasa already uses other Instrumental Craft to do this. So maybe they think it would be a waste of time, who knows. Good point though

Yes, they have other instruments. These are not cameras in the conventional sense. There are mounts on the ISS for devices looking outwards, why put them there if they are of no use? If you look at the original specs for the ISS, it was noted that its inherent stability would make it an excellent platform for astronomy/astrophotography, but I can find no images.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by GaryN

 

LASCO, on SOHO, is a camera. Actually, 3 cameras. What makes you think they're not?
And then there's STEREO A and B, both of which have several cameras.

On-board the ISS they have a fancy 3D camera for live streaming, and they've had quite a few standard (mostly Nikon) digital cameras. Here's a couple picture taken with those:





Now, tell me, why do they need to image the sun from the ISS when they've got specialized equipment for doing so on-board STEREO and SOHO?

Again, these are not cameras. They are coronagraphs, and need about a 20 second exposure to take a 'picture' of the Sun. Try doing a 20 second exposure of the Sun with your digital camera, even with the atmosphere cutting out the harsher light and see what happens to it. The two images you link to are interesting for the same reason. Here you have a camera without a filter, being pointed straight at the Sun, and still taking a good picture of everything else. What was the camera, and what were the exposure settings?
Why do they need to take pictures from the ISS? They don't need to, but if you were a crew member, with your fancy digital camera, and some giant sunspots were happening, wouldn't you want to? Maybe their
baggage allowances don't allow them to take a filter along with them, but as you have shown, you don't even need a filter, you can just point straight at a harsh UV emitting nuclear reactor in the sky, no problem. Except it doesn't show sunspots, its white, and it's ugly. Show me an image that looks anything like one taken from the Earth.

Originally posted by abeverage
I think it would be a lousy platform for observation. It is moving to fast and would see the sun 15-16 times a day. Not very stable for long observations. Maybe an occasional image but then you need filters too.

Reminds me...if it is clear enough I plan to get some more images tonight! I have photographed the sun for many years now it would be cool to film it from space too!

OH and also bet they could put on some #14 or darker welding googls to see it...that would be cool!

edit on 7-11-2011 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

Why would you need to worry about long observations with the Sun? Sure you would need a filter, they aren't hard to come by. Looking at the stars would require a tracker to avoid streaking, but I think NASA knows that.
You are going to film the Sun at night?
And talking about filming, could they video the Sun from the ISS?

reply to post by GaryN


Why do you think a coronagraph isn't a camera?
And anyway, as I said, STEREO has camera cameras. Don't they count?

Why do they need to take pictures from the ISS? They don't need to, but if you were a crew member, with your fancy digital camera, and some giant sunspots were happening, wouldn't you want to?

What can they see from the ISS that they can't see with STEREO? They would need to build a dedicated module for taking such images with any quality greater than STEREO, so what's the point? Just let STEREO do it...that's what they're there for.

The Heliospheric Imagers onboard STEREO are cameras to some degree, but far from an off-the-shelf model. Plus, they do not image the Sun itself, but the heliosphere. There are baffles to prevent the actual Sun being imaged, the sensitivity of the imagers in order to be able to do what they were designed for means they would fry if they viewed the Sun. The other instruments are not cameras by any stretch of the imagination. A coronagraph is not a camera, do some reading.
Why would they want to use their plain old digital cameras to see Sunspots from the ISS? Why do people still go to the trouble and expense of taking pictures of the Sun and Sunspots from down here on Earth? Because they want to! And you are trying to tell me that no crew member in the life of the ISS has ever had the desire to snap an image of Sunspots? That's beyond my belief.
Have they ever studied sunspots from the ISS? According to a crew member, they did it on a daily basis.
I'll transcribe the conversation between the ISS and some students from James Bay Elementary School in Houston, Texas. Feb 2004.

Q. Are you able to see and measure sunspots from the International Space Station?
A: Crystal, can we measure sunspots from the ISS, and that's a good experiment to perform. Unfortunately today, I do not know why, we are not measuring them from the International Space station. Over

So they did measure Sunspots from the ISS. Where are any results, papers, discussions, images, raw data, anything? I can only find Solar-SOLSPEC, mission 116, 2008. Nothing from 2004. And no data from the 2008 mission.

What can they see from the ISS that they can't see with STEREO?

No, it's what they can see from STEREO that they can't see from the ISS I am wondering about.
All I want is a simple image of the Sun from the ISS looking like the Sun I can see from Earth!

I posted this topic because I was hoping for help in finding information that I am unable to find, but it seems that ATS is all about arguing and confrontation. What a nice world it would be if we co-operated instead.

Q. Are you able to see and measure sunspots from the International Space Station?
A: Crystal, can we measure sunspots from the ISS, and that's a good experiment to perform. Unfortunately today, I do not know why, we are not measuring them from the International Space station. Over

So they did measure Sunspots from the ISS. Where are any results, papers, discussions, images, raw data, anything? I can only find Solar-SOLSPEC, mission 116, 2008. Nothing from 2004. And no data from the 2008 mission.

Sounds to me like they haven't tracked sunspots from that quote. Perhaps they don't have a tracking device to compensate for the speed things would be moving. Perhaps one doesn't exist or they simply don't have the space or window size for it. A couple of things astronomers on earth don't have to worry about.

Good thread op and solid questions and replies on your part.s/f I learned something from your posts and I thank you. Keep up the good work

Originally posted by GaryN

I posted this topic because I was hoping for help in finding information that I am unable to find, but it seems that ATS is all about arguing and confrontation. What a nice world it would be if we co-operated instead.

Who's being argumentative and confrontational?

All I want is a simple image of the Sun from the ISS looking like the Sun I can see from Earth!

Do you mean an image of sunspots, or an image of the Sun? Because I posted two photos of the Sun taken from the ISS that look like the Sun you can see from Earth.

it's what they can see from STEREO that they can't see from the ISS I am wondering about.

That's been answered a couple times. You say you don't consider LASCO and SECCHI to be cameras because of what they have to do to get images of sunspots. I would concede that LASCO might not be considered a camera in the strictest sense, but two issues you say you have with SECCHI are the baffles and exposure time required. But, that's the thing... in order to image the Sun with any usable detail, these things are required. One of these - the exposure time - is not possible from the ISS, because, as has been mentioned, the station is moving far too fast.


As for why they don't seem to have released the information they gathered in past sunspot studies... have you tried contacting NASA?

reply to post by GaryN


Initially I was confused by the original statement that sunspots cannot be seen from ISS as they can and yes they could get photos. But there are several other satellites that are better suited. The sun is dynamic and sunspots change dramatically even in an 8 hour period. Just not a great platform for continuous observation (even ground has a longer viewing period).
Just think they would do better at aiming cameras down onto Earth for observations and maybe actually do some science. lol

(A little too busy to reply in detail to comments, here's some bits and pieces maybe of interest in this thread. Back soon...)

Do you mean an image of sunspots, or an image of the Sun? Because I posted two photos of the Sun taken from the ISS that look like the Sun you can see from Earth.

Images of the Sun from the ISS are obviously possible, but I have never seen one that is not close to the crescent Earth. They all look ugly, and you can not see sunspots.

I'm looking for an image of the sun, with sunspots, that looks like I can take freehand, with a very short exposure, and a filter, home made or commercial. How big a dent could that make in NASAs time or budget limitations?
T2i, telephoto lens, mylar solar filter, sepia enhanced.


I have offered to send NASA the whole kit if they will send someone out on an EVA, find the Sun, and take a photo. No long exposure required, don't wory about the ISS moving so fast. I am on their ignore list it seems.
An unfiltered Sun, from Earth.



Astrophotography from the ISS. Here a crew member describes how wonderful the station is for such shots. Surely they could image the Sun if they wanted to? And I'd like to see all the images he says were being downloaded, but can't find them. Maybe someone else would like to search?
ISS Video

When Pettit tried to take pictures of city lights he quickly realized it wasn't as easy as photographing the stars. The station, traveling 17,500 mph, races around Earth in only 90 minutes. Lights on Earth's surface move through the window too quickly for long exposures. Stars, on the other hand, appear nearly motionless because they're so far away. It's like driving down a highway in a fast-moving car: Distant mountains and trees don't appear to move much, but the fringe of the road is a blur.

science.nasa.gov...

reply to post by GaryN


Nice pics, actually. Now, try taking those with the same equipment from a car moving, say... 25 mph (and that's nothing compared to the velocity of the ISS). Or better yet take them from a train, more stable ride, those cars always rock and bump around and all. Let me see the results, when you're done. Catch my drift? ;-)

Removed double-post. Sorry

(My 3G connection f-d things up)

Removed 2nd double-post. Sorry

(My 3G connection f-d things up)

Removed the last double-post. Sorry

(My 3G connection f-d things up)

Oh, by the way, is there any way to completely get rid of something posted more than once, other than asking the Mods? Couldn't find a option for that.

Why would they need to?
There is nothing that can be learned from the ISS as opposed from other observatory locations. It would require a large installment to be added to the ISS which would be deemed uneccessary.
I don't really get why it would be a problem. You even go some way to answering the question with that quote you posted, to get a usable non motion blurred image from a space station travelling at excessive speeds you would need to either have a extremely short shutter speed which would be next to useless with a filter in place or a specially built tracking mount which would no doubt be expensive and heavy.
It's just not practical.

Why would they need to?
There is nothing that can be learned from the ISS as opposed from other observatory locations.

I am not discussing need here. I am talking about crew members, some of whom have been astronomers, taking some pictures on their own time, with their own gear. They seem to have lots of time to snap countless images of the most mundane onboard activities, playing the fool, etc.

to get a usable non motion blurred image from a space station travelling at excessive speeds you would need to either have a extremely short shutter speed which would be next to useless with a filter in place or a specially built tracking mount which would no doubt be expensive and heavy.

Did you watch the videos? It was stated that the ISS was a very stable platform. There was no image blur with the shot of the stars. So how fast would the Sun go past a 'window' on the ISS? If the Sun were visible, how long an exposure would you need, through a dark filter, to get a decent image?

or a specially built tracking mount which would no doubt be expensive and heavy.

Did you see the tracker made with a cordless drill and some scrounged bits and pieces? The guys they send up there are highly educated, skilled, resourceful. Think they couldn't figure out how to get a picture of the Sun??

Here is the page for the SOLSPEC experiments. Why bother doing this from the ISS? Surely they can do that with all the other instruments they have in space? Anyway, imaging the Sun over its full spectrum does not seem to be a problem, but access to the results requires a little work, and the dataset does not, as far as I can determine, include any images of the Sun.
solspec.projet.latmos.ipsl.fr...

I doubt anyone will find an image taken with a standard camera, even attached to a telescope from space, of Mars or Venus or any other planets too. There is a reason for this, but unless you spend a good amount of time looking into how they do image things in space, you will never understand.
Here is a good start for anyone really interested in finding out why you can not take a picture of our Sun, from space, with a regular camera. Yes, I know, I'll be shown that fuzzy blob next to the crescent Earth again, and that is the only place you will see it. I'll get to explaining that if anyone shows any interest.
www.space.com...