ATS : "statistics " favour new members

there have been many threads about the ATS metrics , "w" , "k" etc

but none address the fact that they are biased towards newer members

star and flag are a recent addition to ATS

but now star and flag has become the " sign " of quality

when its realy the sign of popularity - and group thought

idividuality , free thought - does not garner stars and flags - only goup thought and conformity does

and new members who ` pander to the masses ` get stars and flags - others wo dont - are shunned

go figure

reply to post by ignorant_ape


The stars and flags are a classical conditioning tool.
psychology.about.com...

Positive reinforcement is the way to keep people participating and still make it appear that they know what they're talking about. Especially with certain groups that will show up to discuss certain topics, their stars cannot be taken away by someone voting them down. This way, it still looks as though nobody is disagreeing with them and their point is the most valid one out there. Even if someone does post a comment that counters theirs, the group thinkers are too many and that comment won't receive any stars and become buried, then lost.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Explanation: Flagged!

Generally I see your argument banging some home truths right on the head!

But specifically, there is a MILLION different reasons why I St*r and or Flag Threads!

And they vary from ... "I don't care what xyandorz member has to say as I like them!" ... all the way to ..."OMFG! Thats the TRUTH!"

I also deliberately S&F threads that are absolute rubbish ... because I can and I know it annoys people greatly, and as ATS is run on Ad Revenue I do my bit to occasionaly stir the pot just to get a rise out of the membership and PROVOKE them to post and thereby INCREASE ATS financial stronghold in its 'One of the top 2000 websites on the web!" position!

Personal Disclosure: You know what they say about statistics ... Lies and Damned Lies OK!

reply to post by ignorant_ape
I tend to pay more attention to names and avatars who I associate with people who post interesting opinions and/or fact based evidence.

For what it's worth, you're one of them - hence the reply.

The scores don't matter too much but play a small part.

What really matters is the quality of a member's posts overall; this means that 'Top 50' members have no advantage over the rest of us and everyone is measured (or should be) on what they have to say.

Sometimes, a post with dozens of stars is the weakest post in a thread and the new guy/gal gets ignored, or overlooked after posting pure gold dust.

I don't know if SO can crunch the stats and show a histogram of members starring or flagging? I suspect that the influx of new members are less inclined to star or flag and this is misrepresenting how much appreciation is displayed in threads and posts.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
there have been many threads about the ATS metrics , "w" , "k" etc

but none address the fact that they are biased towards newer members

star and flag are a recent addition to ATS

but now star and flag has become the " sign " of quality

when its realy the sign of popularity - and group thought

idividuality , free thought - does not garner stars and flags - only goup thought and conformity does

and new members who ` pander to the masses ` get stars and flags - others wo dont - are shunned

go figure

how highschool of you. lol kidding

i'd say don't pay attention to it and simply read the posts, no one is making you agree with how many people agree with the post and acknowledging it with a star.

in all honesty I mostly star the long post with no stars, not because it has no stars but because the quality of what i'm reading. somebody just missed it's worth. and I never star a post if it has more then like 5 anyway because somebody already noticed it's quality.

the star is merely a way of giving notice to quality input.

but in your eyes it's been glamorized to a means of success and popularity, which is no reason to be here.
we are here because we still care. if we didn't we'd be trying to become millionaires and living in mansions like the rest of the heartless fiends.

What is this a flag fest thread?

Originally posted by Kandinsky

I tend to pay more attention to names and avatars who I associate with people who post interesting opinions and/or fact based evidence.

For what it's worth, you're one of them - hence the reply.

Beat me to it. I was going to post virtually the same thing. By the way, 110 applauses. That's fairly significant.

People really pay attention to points, stars, flags, and applause? Seems a little too much like the popularity of one's posts being equated to the quality of one's posts if you ask me.

I always looked at those options as meaningless widgets to amuse the bored. Applause is a bit different, as it is given by mods and higher.. but even then I've been mystified on occasion when I receive it. Best to read and judge by content.. the rest is so much lipstick on a pig

Starstruck

reply to post by ignorant_ape

Even worse, stars can't be awarded in Board Business & Questions, so us longtime BB&Q trolls don't have a shot at all.

Still, it is a sacrifice that must be made for the sake of board-related pontification, nagging and suggestioneering, and if I must sacrifice precious stars to do it, 'tis a far, far better thing I do...

Its also one of those things where the nature of people to gravitate toward the sensationalistic and views that mirror their own come in play.

For example, you sometimes get well researched and thought provoking threads that generate very few stars and flag and sensationalistic and polarizing threads sometimes get stars and flags out the wahzoo.

Granted those well thought and researched threads may get applause. But I don't know if that registers into any of the stats.

Originally posted by Majic
Starstruck

reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

Even worse, stars can't be awarded in Board Business & Questions, so us longtime BB&Q trolls don't have a shot at all.

Clearly quality is discouraged in BB&Q and since you put it that way, I feel hungry.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape


star and flag are a recent addition to ATS

Am I understanding you incorrectly? I have been here for four years in December and they have had stars and flags since at least the day I joined...

So really for longer than 4 years. Stars and flags are not a recent addition to ATS by any means.

If I am misunderstanding, I apologize.

As for the main point of your post, I admit. I am not sure. When I post I am not doing it for stars or flags. But I do have a firm believe in quality over quantity.

I like to at least think that if my posts are quality enough, then they will get starred or flagged. I most certainly hope that no one stars or flags me just because of how popular I may or may not be.

Though, I don't think I am popular....By any means.

For what it is worth, Some of my posts get zero stars and flags. Some get a few and some get a bunch.... So... I admit, if it is a popularity thing. i am not seeing it.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


36.8 statistics are made up without any thought put behind them anyway, so what are statistics in the whole statistical scheme of things really? There was much more I had intended to rant about regarding this profoundly serious issue, until I realized this post will not even get me a single star, and me being the star whore I am, I am compelled to pick between my principles and the popularity principle won out, so I got to go now.

Best,

JPZ

reply to post by Majic


Your dutiful and noble sacrifice has been duly noted.

Have 1000 stars.

Cosmic..

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


They were added early 2007 if I remember right. And you used to be able to give a post between 1-5 stars (or none) which were averaged together to have your own star average. People like me that no one really paid much attention to had a very high average. Others who had ruffled some feathers had a low average.

And since the star rating was a simple average, the one star bandit was born to wreck that average. It was a bad situation all around. Until the change to only one star per member revamp.

Basically stars are a way to avoid the simple one line posts of "I agree"

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Basically stars are a way to avoid the simple one line posts of "I agree"

But can one not agree in a multi-mega-astra-spectacularical way?

Originally posted by The1Prettiest1One

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Basically stars are a way to avoid the simple one line posts of "I agree"

But can one not agree in a multi-mega-astra-spectacularical way?

Hell yeah!

Stars and Flags could be a sign of quality, but not necessarily. Cointelpro are good at garnering support, making friends and inspiring people to write gushy comments about their intelligence. It's also a sign of manipulation. Some get stars for their humor. Can we have another symbol for humor? I want to look at humorous posts more often! How about tin foil hats for the super-freaky-out-of-the-box posters?! That'd be cool. I'm sure the Grammar Nazis are on their way to pick me up.....tah tah for now!

Frankly, I've always felt that most of the stat tracking tools from stars and flags to WATS and Karma are generally unnecessary and lend to nothing but popularity contests. It implies that the higher your numbers are, the more valid or valuable your opinion or posts are over others. It's the same as comparing your xbox achievements. It doesn't say anything about you or what you have to contribute at any given moment. They're just unneeded numbers distracting and dividing.