The creation of religion and the lack of further proof..

I believe that all religions should be sh*t-tested along with every other possible theory out there.

If you have 1 piece of evidence, and no more evidence pops up over a couple of thousand years then you should throw it in the garbage - or in the skunk works.

There are a lot of believers in different types of religion, and that is good. Religions like Christianity is what keeps our world together, keeping order with it`s 10 commandments.

But the fact remains, that if no further evidence is ever presented then all theory should be put in the "skunk works" if it`s not proven 100% correct.

Since I have seen no evidence that haven`t been debunked. Like the kid that bled from his hands and feet, and the blood crying statue. I believe ALL religion should be put in the skunk works.

You disagree? Ok, show me the evidence.

(And if you are one who believe that the bible and all religion came from Aliens visiting our planet, then that is for a different discussion.)

Not sure exactly what you are looking for in a debate type form, however if your looking truly to debunk all religions per-say or for anyone whom really has the guts to learn the whole truth then let me suggest watching the two part video in its entirety at www.suddenreality.com

Can't speak for any religion, just my own personal faith in Christianity, but I don't believe I have to prove anything because it is personal. Although I think there is proof enough, some just won't believe the truth no matter how strong.

So if you aren't willing to read to find the proof you seek, then I guess you want someone to do miracles in front of you before you believe in religion.

reply to post by br0ker


What counts as proof to you? I'm asking this seriously, not to attack. Do you need to know God's weight? Do you need a photo of Him? Will you accept the statements of people who saw Him? What are you looking for?

Originally posted by br0ker
I believe that all religions should be sh*t-tested along with every other possible theory out there.

If you have 1 piece of evidence, and no more evidence pops up over a couple of thousand years then you should throw it in the garbage - or in the skunk works.

There are a lot of believers in different types of religion, and that is good. Religions like Christianity is what keeps our world together, keeping order with it`s 10 commandments.

But the fact remains, that if no further evidence is ever presented then all theory should be put in the "skunk works" if it`s not proven 100% correct.

Since I have seen no evidence that haven`t been debunked. Like the kid that bled from his hands and feet, and the blood crying statue. I believe ALL religion should be put in the skunk works.

You disagree? Ok, show me the evidence.

(And if you are one who believe that the bible and all religion came from Aliens visiting our planet, then that is for a different discussion.)

edit on 7-11-2011 by br0ker because: profanity in a word

With an opening post like that I would expect you to provide quite alot of your own research data to support it. Show us your evidence first then we can begin with serious debates and conclusions.

reply to post by br0ker

I believe that all religions should be sh*t-tested along with every other possible theory out there.

What exactly do you mean by a sh*t test?

Originally posted by dakota1s2
Can't speak for any religion, just my own personal faith in Christianity, but I don't believe I have to prove anything because it is personal. Although I think there is proof enough, some just won't believe the truth no matter how strong.

So if you aren't willing to read to find the proof you seek, then I guess you want someone to do miracles in front of you before you believe in religion.

Nope.. I`m looking for cold hard evidence. Video, photo, and any written texts other than the scrolls and the bible (that were made at the same time).

A different source telling some of the stories from the bible for example. Photo`s and videos of people walking on water, water being turned into wine,, ANYTHING really.

Because there is absolutely nothing!!! This goes for all religion. And religion needs to be treated as a myth until proven right, just like every other theme out there like UFO`s, aliens, monsters and the Mayan Prophesies.

We are working really hard on figuring out if the world is going to end in December 2012, but I don`t see anyone trying to figure out if the bible is true.

I saw a documentary on TV of some wacky religious family that set out to find the stone that Jesus made God split to make a flow of water. And trying to prove it "scientifically". I can`t see that anyone has ever confirmed that. You`d think that the Pope would be interested in proving Christianity to be true and right, but then again, if they`re wrong then it would all fall apart. No more money from the people into that scam.

reply to post by Tindalos2013


Why would I need evidence?? For more than 2000 years religious people have believed without evidence. It`s F A I T H.

My evidence is that there is no evidence to the contrary. I believe all the "evidence" from the Bible has been debunked or attached to the UFO`s and alien phenomena. And if God, Jesus and Aliens are one and the same then the believers will really be in for a treat come revelations.

The find of "Noah`s ark" in the mountains was inconclusive. For god`s sake, they`re still trying to put geographical places from the bible to a world map, and everyone is arguing where it really is.

The "linen" that was documented as being wrapped over Jesus when he "died" has been taken x-rays of trying to prove it was him. Well.. hate to break it to you, but nobody actually know what Jesus looked like. This could be anyone, and finding ONE linen and directly connecting it to Jesus is would be like winning the lottery without really playing.

The Bible might as well be writings from a great philosopher, which saw that the world needed guidance and belief to create moral. Pure fiction, but with a greater good.

There is however somewhat logic reasoning that ties reports of UFO`s and aliens to stories from the bible.

I`m just saying, there is NO reason why religions don`t need to be put through sh*t tests like every other theme. People take it as truth without evidence to back it up, then they label it FAITH. And if you don`t have FAITH then you`re labeled an dog.

Biggest reason I would see to sh*t test all religions would be the fact that there is at least FIVE HUGE religions. And although they don`t differ in a few things that all good stories need, then the fact is that they differ in the details.


The few things good stories/books/movies need:
1. A hero / a savior
2. People in distress that he can save
3. A highlight, or jawdropping point to literally make your jaw drop in disbelief.
4. An invisible force
5. A turning point
6. Reassurance that the tale isn`t over, there will be more....

Either it`s Star Wars, Captain America or The Bible starring Jesus, it`s the same to catch every ones interest.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by br0ker

 

I believe that all religions should be sh*t-tested along with every other possible theory out there.

What exactly do you mean by a sh*t test?

A test to see if it`s true or pure BS. Evidence, proof, critical thinking. Doing what everyone else is doing because it`s "politically" correct is moronic. Weak minded people are the ones that do what others do to feel a sense of security and belonging.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by br0ker

 

What counts as proof to you? I'm asking this seriously, not to attack. Do you need to know God's weight? Do you need a photo of Him? Will you accept the statements of people who saw Him? What are you looking for?

Very good point Charles.

So I`ll say this, if you give me 30 000 detailed reports from people who saw god, and everyone gives the same details of how he looks. Then you might make a believer out of me. If you can back that up with videos and photos of the events, and also here God looks the same, then OK, there must be something to it.

If not, well.. then Bigfoot has more proof than anything in the bible.

reply to post by dakota1s2


Don`t get me wrong. I do believe in an "invisible force" that you and everyone else in the world can move and direct when thinking about it, wishing, asking or as others might call it: praying.

But as for the bible, it pure bologny until proven otherwise.

As for Christianity and many other religions it is pure Evil. At the top it`s all about power and profit, if you research it through history then you clearly see Christianity playing out for power and money. Scaring people of hell if you don`t pay or act in the right way.

reply to post by br0ker

Religions like Christianity is what keeps our world together,

And yet tares our species apart at the same time...

All religions seperate us from each other

So yes, most religion should be skunked....

though i can't say the same about all scripture

Originally posted by drmeola
Not sure exactly what you are looking for in a debate type form, however if your looking truly to debunk all religions per-say or for anyone whom really has the guts to learn the whole truth then let me suggest watching the two part video in its entirety at www.suddenreality.com

WHAT IF - I made a video telling you WHAT IF before the headlines of ALL theories presented on ATS .

One was bound to be correct. But WHAT IF most of them are wrong. What if..

Seriously, if that wacko says WHAT IF once more I`l repeatedly smack my head into the brick wall in the hallway. JEEZ he`s a moron.

*And why would he sit inside making a video with a black coat on?? He cracks me up. But by the mere probability of talking about enough stuff, he is bound to be right on a couple of things. And yes, I believe he has a few good points among hundreds of misses. But with unlimited ammo, you`ll bound to hit the bulls-eye sooner or later.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by br0ker

 

Religions like Christianity is what keeps our world together,

And yet tares our species apart at the same time...

All religions seperate us from each other

So yes, most religion should be skunked....

though i can't say the same about all scripture

edit on 8-11-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

I CONCUR.

reply to post by br0ker


LOL, yes I guess I should have told you to skip the intro what if video, that makes me nuts as well. He lives in Canada he has the coat on because it is cold were he did the recording he is a homeless man, watch the first whole movie then decide if you still think he is nuts, if not then watch the second part.

The what if movie was nothing more then an intro if you go to his youtube channel this two part movie is a culmination of over a years work, I think anyone would find more truth then ever exposed to before on his channel goes into length the history of all religions and great detail into the wholly bible, backs all he says with proof.

Dear br0ker,

I just ran over to Wikipedia and found a couple of things I thought were interesting. The first talks about an event in Portugal seen by 30,000 to 100,000 people and reported in the papers at the time. The second discusses the levels of investigation currently being conducted into the healings at Lourdes.

They're just a place to start. Keep looking.

Miracle of the Sun - 1917

Lourdes Medical Bureau

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear br0ker,

I just ran over to Wikipedia and found a couple of things I thought were interesting. The first talks about an event in Portugal seen by 30,000 to 100,000 people and reported in the papers at the time. The second discusses the levels of investigation currently being conducted into the healings at Lourdes.

They're just a place to start. Keep looking.

Miracle of the Sun - 1917

Lourdes Medical Bureau

With respect,
Charles1952

Really...

Your 1. link: Are you really telling me that a UFO observation in the 1917 is proof of religion / god??? ok, if so it coinsides with religion being connected to Aliens. And I excluded that observation in my OP, because that is where all the evidence lies.

Your 2. link: It is proved by FACT - not fiction - that healings come from the placebo effect of the individual believing it`s true. So if a person believes in God and you call that person out of nowhere to say that Jesus/God told you to call, and that you`re calling to cure their cancer (something they shouldn`t know you had)... then you will be healed, physical reality... because of the placebo effect and your belief in it.

* Maybe I mis interpeted your second link. But I don`t see no other connection to religion or God other than the medical placebo effect in that instance. As you must well know, inner medicine (placebo and believing) restructures your very being from the subconsious - that actually controls all bodily functions. So this has a higher probability to cure "uncurable" illnesses than regular medicine that is not proven to work.

Like with uncurable cancer. Belief might heal you, but not medicine.. due to the subconsious controlling your body.

reply to post by br0ker


Dear br0ker,

Thanks for looking at my links. May I explore your idea that Lourdes is based on the placebo effect?

Vittorio Micheli
Visited Lourdes: 1 June 1963.

Age 23, from Scurelle, Italy. Sarcoma (cancer) of pelvis; tumour so large that his left thigh became loose from the socket, leaving his left leg limp and paralysed. After taking the waters, he was free of pain and could walk. By February 1964 the tumour was gone, the hip joint had recalcified, and he returned to a normal life. His cure was recognized on 26 May 1976.

Jeanne Fretel
Visited Lourdes: 10 May 1948.

Age 31, a student nurse from Rennes, France. Tubercular peritonitis with complications for seven years, extreme emaciation and oscillating fever. Comatose when brought to Lourdes, was given a tiny fragment of the Eucharist and awoke. Reported being "instantly and permanently cured" later that night while lying in her wheelchair beside the spring. She had not yet bathed in or drunk the water. Her cure was recognised officially on 11 November 1950.

Comatose people aren't affected by placebos.

These cases, and similar ones, make me think there is something serious going on.

I understand that even photos of Jesus could be explained as photos of an ET taking human form, but I have a little different belief system than some.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

With respect,
Charles1952

You are absolutely right that nothing in the Bible can be proven. Catholics (who comprise of more Christians in the world than all Protestant religions combined, and is the particular poison I happen to subscribe to) don't even really believe in the stories of the Bible. We believe in Evolution not Creationism, we don't believe in Noah, etc. Christianity is not really about whether those events happened. As a theologian told me about a month ago, Catholicism is a religion of the spirit, not a religion of the book. I am obviously not speaking for all Christians, for many Protestants are very attached to the Bible, but a great majority of Christians in the world don't give a sh*t if Noah actually put two of every animal on the ark.

Because it's not about proving the Bible true, in the end. Who cares if Moses really existed or not? Why does that matter to me right now? What benefit does it grant me if I find out that yes, God's finger at one point wrote some stuff on a stone tablet for some Jews in the wilderness? What matters to me is God and his presence in my life now. The spirit of the religion, the spirit of the Bible, not the words. Messages of liberation, of love, of acceptance, and of forgiveness. I can't speak for all, but this is what I believe to be the true function of the Bible. Religion is not about whether or not Biblical things happened, but about how God is present in our lives now, and how he was present to people then as well. The spirit of the stories, not the literal word, because human words change all the time but the spirit of God does not.

So asking for proof is meaningless. It doesn't matter if these things really happened. In the end, it doesn't matter one way or the other to our relationship with God. You can try to find evidence of Biblical truth all you want, and that is all well and good, but it's missing the point of what religion is really about. Proof one way or the other does not change anything because it doesn't matter if the stories literally happened.

reply to post by br0ker


I believe that you should be respecting about what happens to people in their lives, even if it crosses spiritual boundaries. For example, if you hear on here two stories, here, have two examples (totally ficticious):

Example 1.

"I went to the store today and bought seven packages of Sidekicks for 25 cents apiece because they had a going out of business sale".

Example 2.

"I had a moment at lunchtime, and an angel of the Lord spoke to me, and told me to let us all know that there is a life after this one, and that we should resolve our faith issues".

Both are possible, but will you ever check into either? What if the means of checking into story B was just as possible as story A, but you needed a different set of senses to play, and a stronger sense of faith to believe the answers?