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Why Russia/China always get dragged into conflicts?

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posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:02 AM
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This is a serious question addressed at everyone that thinks that any kind of strike on Iran will automatically involve the two other remaining superpowers on earth to a final showdown, namely WW3.

Give me one good reason for Russia or China to risk it all and start a world war only because one out of many of their business partners gets attacked by the west?
Russia and China have problems of their own. They certainly don't support an attack on Iran, but will they do everything in their power to destroy any nation that attacks them, like some posters around here claim? There is light years difference between not supporting something, and doing everything in your power to destroy the country(ies?) that made that thing happen.

Sure the US is somehow broke, but neither China nor Russia are in a position to sustain a world war.


I'm not saying such a reason does not exist, I'm just looking for it in this thread. No flaming please and no silly guesses, I want strictly educated guesses minimum.




posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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Wouldn't it be great if the US would just sit this one out?


They bring up Russia China cuz it fits nicer with bible prophecy.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:10 AM
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The thing is, war is good for absolutely no one. It won't actually benefit any nation. Israel bombing Iran will make Israel more of target for extremism, not less. The US and UK can't afford another ME war bombing Iran. Iran are not going to nuke Israel as it would mean the destruction of Iran in the process. So there is actually no possible victors in this war and no sane reason for getting involved.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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elites are the same all over the world. they don't mind it when the poor, civilians and soldiers die. they hide in their bunkers or go on vacation.

but nuclear war would kill them all. what good is offshore accounts, yachts, private jets, fine restaurants and power if the world is reduced to rubble and people are scraping by like roaches.

it takes someone with a complete hate of the wealthy to rise to power and end it all. that's what the elites fear most.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by Lysergic
Wouldn't it be great if the US would just sit this one out?


They bring up Russia China cuz it fits nicer with bible prophecy.


I for one wouldn't mind if the US, or anyone else in the world for that matter, sit this one out.
And by sitting this one out, I mean not being directly involved in an armed conflict.

Some people whine at the US for supplying weapons for Israel while at the same time glorifying the arm supplies from Russia/China to Iran. Stupidity.

I'm also confident that the Israeli army is able to solo the Iranian army and I could demonstrate it with several reasons. But why let facts confuse the vast majority of 'BLESS IRAN!!1!1' community in this site?


Anyhow, back to the original question..
edit on 7-11-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


So when Israel goes into Iran, are you prepared from the assault on your own borders, are the Iranians allowed to respond? Can they fight back using any means at their disposal?



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


So when Israel goes into Iran, are you prepared from the assault on your own borders, are the Iranians allowed to respond? Can they fight back using any means at their disposal?

"Allowed" to respond? What on earth...?

This is a war, they are "Allowed" to do anything, I suppose.

As I said, I am not slightly bothered by the fact Iran may and will retaliate. Their only way to respond is by ballistic missiles, which the Arrow system is more than capable of destroying before it impacts.
Don't be confused by the often failures of the Iron Dome system against Qassams from Gaza, as they are tiny and got almost zero heat signature while ballistic missiles such as Iran holds are enormous and very easy to intercept.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:28 AM
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Why Russia/China always get dragged into conflicts?

Money, Oil and greed

America (currently broke) cannot create wealth.
but it can create wealth by storming another country (say Iran for example), then Iran's oil then becomes America's oil.

America gave the blessing for Libya to be stormed so that the French and British could get those lucrative oil deals.
Next on the agenda will be America storming Iran for oil.
In Return Britain and France will give it's blessing to America.

Nothing new here, just the same old dirty game of politics and money.
The average person (you reading this, me typing this, innocent Libyan and Iranian citizens will suffer).

History will always teach, just look at the stock market crash of 1929 then seven years later WWII.
Same sh1t, different day.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:32 AM
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Still not a single proper answer as to why is it so sure that Russia or China will get themselves directly involved with this conflict.

Come on people this is not a thread to fill with anti-war poems or thoughts. We all agree war is bad and whoever doesn't agree is stupid. But that has nothing to do with the original question.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


I was thinking more along the lines of terrorism than firing missiles at Israel. It's not your neighbors are going to be on your side. I thought living in Israel, you would want to be striving for peace instead of war. Why should you be allowed a load of nukes that have never been inspected by the IEA or the UN, yet Iran may be developing them in which case Iran must be destroyed. That kind of reeks of double standards, dont you think?



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


And all of the counters you talk about are conventional weapons. A low yield nuke would obliterate Israel, I would rather deal with a 10000 suicide bombers then 1 nuke.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Maybe China and Russia wont get involved, I don't see any evidence to the contrary. Just let you guys slog it out on your own, without American and NATO help. All I'm saying is you think destroying Iran will make Israel a safer place?



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by Arkansas
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


And all of the counters you talk about are conventional weapons. A low yield nuke would obliterate Israel, I would rather deal with a 10000 suicide bombers then 1 nuke.


What would be the point in Iran nuking Israel? Surely if that happened Iran would be wiped off the face of the planet about 3 minutes later.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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As already mentioned, OIL. Among other things, to be sure, but this is a good angle to approach the question from.

China will need oil in the future. Lots of oil. And it knows it. And it knows the known amounts are limited, whatever pie-in-the-sky stuff gets tossed around on ATS about infinite oil, the Chinese aren't buying it. Nor, seemingly, is anyone else.

Everyone wants oil. Its like the one certain thing in the world. Iran can be a real good buddy to China down the road.

Russia's case is a little different, since it has plenty of oil itself...but that doesn't mean it doesn't want in on a good thing, too.

Another factor...might someone want to deliver a "Suez Moment" to the US?

It's allll just the most recent chapter in GREAT GAME; begun by name in the 1800s or perhaps 1700s but in fact, its been going on in Central Asia since the days of Genghis Khan in one way or another...earlier, really...and it ate my own youth and spit out this crusty reprobate you see before you, but that's another tale...anyway go to ATS search and look for SLAYER69's excellent threads on THE GREAT GAME. That 's a pretty decent place to start thinking about the geopolitics of Central Asia and Iran.

edit on 11/7/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


I was thinking more along the lines of terrorism than firing missiles at Israel. It's not your neighbors are going to be on your side. I thought living in Israel, you would want to be striving for peace instead of war. Why should you be allowed a load of nukes that have never been inspected by the IEA or the UN, yet Iran may be developing them in which case Iran must be destroyed. That kind of reeks of double standards, dont you think?


1.We have been dealing with terrorism and missile firing for years now. Why should this be any different now?
2.I am striving for peace. How did you assume I wasn't?
3.I'll let you in on a little secret - the Israeli nuclear reactor is being visited very often by French, British and American scientists. You really believe these countries need IAEA and UN inspections in order to know what's going on in our nuclear factory? They are a part of it. They know how deadly it is, and that's not the thing they are worried about.
Why should we be allowed it and not Iran? Well personally I think no country should be allowed to possess such a horrible weapon, but if anything, I hope only stable countries will be the ones possessing it. Iran's government is highly unstable, and in my book if you cant deal with protesters peacefully (last election, remember the casualties?) you're not entitled to the responsibility of holding nuclear powers.
4.Iran does not have to be destroyed. This whole battle plan you hear of recently does not talk about the destruction of Iran as a country, it talks of destroying it's nuclear efforts. Get it through your head.



Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Maybe China and Russia wont get involved, I don't see any evidence to the contrary. Just let you guys slog it out on your own, without American and NATO help. All I'm saying is you think destroying Iran will make Israel a safer place?

Err.. that's like saying - maybe there's an invisible alien next to me right now, I don't see any evidence to the contrary.
This thread asks for what reasons do the Russian/Chinese countries have to risk WW3 by aiding Iran which is only one of their many business partners. I didn't even ask for any proof or evidence yet.

As I said, if a battle has to occur, I am all for it being strictly Israel vs Iran, 1vs1, no help on either side if possible. I am more than confident of the results of such a conflict.

And no, destroying Iran will not change Israel's security for the better, but destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities certainly will.


Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by Arkansas
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


And all of the counters you talk about are conventional weapons. A low yield nuke would obliterate Israel, I would rather deal with a 10000 suicide bombers then 1 nuke.


What would be the point in Iran nuking Israel? Surely if that happened Iran would be wiped off the face of the planet about 3 minutes later.

Iranian government is not exactly known for it's compassion of it's people or consideration of what they may feel regarding their decisions.
Seeing as the Iranian leadership is a strictly extreme fanatic religious one, I can't see any reason for them to pass an opportunity to be the Islam world's martyr and sacrificing their country only to eradicate the Israeli "plague" as they call it.

I'm not saying they will 100% be happy to do it, but that they have plenty of reasonable (to themselves) reasons to do it, even if they know for sure that Iran will be wiped from the map afterwards.
edit on 7-11-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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Quite simple really...

America Has ties with Israel, and if they attacked Iran then they would need to get involved.

Iran has ties with Russia, and Russia has ties with China, in this unstable world where no-one can support a global war on their own, then it would only make sense in splitting the cost amongst nations...

i.e Iran would ask for russias help, who in turn would ask for Chinas help...

All about profiteering, why start wars if theirs no money to be made in it... The very reason why no one has attacked North Korea or any other tyrannt in this world where nothing can be gained.

Seems straight forward enough, you cant have a world war without having the world at war. And obviously we need the BIG nations to be involved to make this happen...



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:55 AM
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I'll answer your question if you answer this.

Take away your religions, and tell me what morals Israel and Iran both have? Can you answer that?



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Who gave Israel, or any country for that matter the right to tell another country what they can or cannot do. And considering the peacefull nature of said country ( Iran hasn't invaded another country in decades, or started any form of international conflict) there is no justification for this, other than self interested ones.

Peace and security, that's all I hear about when people talk about Israel. How important it is to keep them safe. Perhaps if they wanted to stay safe they would attempt a little diplomacy and peace.

Operating an open aired ghetto, consistently breaking international law and refusal to follow or sign international peace treaties such as the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty is what hurst Israel every day. Their own actions are the cause of the people's animosity towards them.

Isn't it clear to those watching on the sidelines? It sure is to me. Besides, Isreal is being a pretty big hypocrite refusing to allow other nations a means to defend themselves and to tell other countries to lay off their bully tactics, when they themselves lie about their nuclear arsenal.

Be the change you'd like to see Israel, I can't support your treasonous, violent government until you actually do something peacefull.

~Keeper

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by chewy1314
Quite simple really...

America Has ties with Israel, and if they attacked Iran then they would need to get involved.

Iran has ties with Russia, and Russia has ties with China, in this unstable world where no-one can support a global war on their own, then it would only make sense in splitting the cost amongst nations...

i.e Iran would ask for russias help, who in turn would ask for Chinas help...

All about profiteering, why start wars if theirs no money to be made in it... The very reason why no one has attacked North Korea or any other tyrannt in this world where nothing can be gained.

Seems straight forward enough, you cant have a world war without having the world at war. And obviously we need the BIG nations to be involved to make this happen...

So what can guarantee Russia and China will emerge victorious or even at profit from such a war? If it's all about profit, Russia and China have got everything to lose and very little to gain.



posted on Nov, 7 2011 @ 06:07 AM
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"So what can guarantee Russia and China will emerge victorious or even at profit from such a war? If it's all about profit, Russia and China have got everything to lose and very little to gain. "

To put the boot in on the USA and show that they are no longer a super power.
China could do that and show that they are the new world power
I am not so sure regarding Russia though.





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