Why I hold the Occupy movement in deep contempt

reply to post by relpobre000


This movement has attracted significant hours of msm attention globally.
This movement is keeping alive the acute awareness we had in 2008 that big business had gone bust in the most spectacular fashion.
This movement is keeping alive the acute awareness that governments facilitated the corporate collapse with poor regulation and oversight.
This movement has got people talking.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by relpobre000

 

This movement has attracted significant hours of msm attention globally.
This movement is keeping alive the acute awareness we had in 2008 that big business had gone bust in the most spectacular fashion.
This movement is keeping alive the acute awareness that governments facilitated the corporate collapse with poor regulation and oversight.
This movement has got people talking.

EXACTLY!


And if that is ALL it does, it is something. It is positive and forward motion.

I think people who are criticizing the OWS protestors are the "establishment" old and decrepit curmudgeons, envious of anyone able to get out of their chairs and march.

I agree to a degree but I have seen many at OWS who are completely aware of the "real world" and are no longer subject to mainstream mind control.

The conspiracy theorists are the people whom are most awake on the planet for they do not trust "anything" that is told to them by TPTB. They scrutinize everything and are always seeking the truth. I am researching mass mind control by trauma based implanting at the moment, and this highlights for me just how bad things really are. Most of the people at OWS know somethig is wrong and believe they understand but they do not know the true extent of the problems. This however is changing slowly. The fundemental problem is that the people in power are psychopaths and or sociopaths who do not subscribe to a mainstream way of life. They live outside of the law by way of d notices and national security. Untill everyone knows this fact we will always be attacked. The public are being attacked under the guise of national security. His is the very heart of all the problems we face today, absolutely everything including chemtrails, financial terrorism, cyber warfare, vaccines, depopulation, mind control, mainstream news etc.... Is carried out under the national security umbrella and therefore totally denied by the auhorities. Its time the security services were totally auditted by the public. If this doesnt happen then there is no hope whatsoever for our survival, period.

reply to post by relpobre000

This is a slippery slope logical fallacy and you should be ashamed to resort to such broken arguments. It's good to know that all this 'change' that the OWS is calling for is purely theoretical, as anything beyond holding a sign and yelling might lead to a pantless society without a sewer system.

That's funny and so untrue.


How quickly we forget....

The Twenty-sixth Amendment (Amendment XXVI) to the United States Constitution limited the minimum voting age to no more than 18.

It was adopted in response to student activism

against the Vietnam War and to partially overrule the Supreme Court's decision in Oregon v. Mitchell. It was adopted on July 1, 1971. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by newcovenant

I think people who are criticizing the OWS protestors are the "establishment" old and decrepit curmudgeons, envious of anyone able to get out of their chairs and march.

More tactics to call anyone who doesnt agree "stupid" or pro corruption.......

You can always tell when the OWS supporters have lost their argument because they accuse you of being something your not........you cannot have a different opinion......

We MUST fall in line..........we MUST agree........

well I WILL NOT trade one form of tyranny for another........

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I think people who are criticizing the OWS protestors are the "establishment" old and decrepit curmudgeons, envious of anyone able to get out of their chairs and march.

More tactics to call anyone who doesnt agree "stupid" or pro corruption.......

You can always tell when the OWS supporters have lost their argument because they accuse you of being something your not........you cannot have a different opinion......

We MUST fall in line..........we MUST agree........

well I WILL NOT trade one form of tyranny for another........

That is also what I have noticed...anyone who doesn't agree 100% is the one who has a problem.

If we weren't such old decrepit curmudgeons, we would be right there with them!!!! If only I could get out of my chair...I'd march down to my local Tea Party Rally, that's what I would do...like I have many times.

To the OWS supporters: I think the OP is right on. I've said it before...other than raising awareness, WHAT do you hope to accomplish by gathering in the park??? And I have to be honest...while you are patting yourselves on the back that you have raised awareness, you need to realize that mainstream America thinks OWS is a joke. So they are mostly aware of something they think is a JOKE. While I respect your passion, I do disagree with many of the multiple the messages overall, and think that your anger should be directed toward the government. I think the movement would have garnered a LOT more support if it had been "Occupy the government".

inb4 this is the billionth thread on the topic stop beating dead horses...

you all defend corporations because you like technology or something, newsflash, manufacturers and designers make those products, not bankers. people are talking about monsanto and the FED not nokia.

/end rant...also this should be in rant...

(by you all I am not refering to those who can clearly see through the divide and conquer bull, again for the fifteenth billionth time...would have thought the other half of the ats population would have got the message by now but they still hating on joe blow and bigging up the corps. have fun with that.)

Originally posted by christina-66
This movement has attracted significant hours of msm attention globally.
This movement is keeping alive the acute awareness we had in 2008 that big business had gone bust in the most spectacular fashion.
This movement is keeping alive the acute awareness that governments facilitated the corporate collapse with poor regulation and oversight.
This movement has got people talking.

Yes indeed, people are talking for sure. Here are a few of the talking points:

- OWS protestors are having drug-fueled sex orgies in our public parks. There have been multiple arrests for rape, having sex with minors, drug dealing, etc.

- OWS protestors are creating pits of garbage-filled filth in our parks because they can't clean up after themselves. This extends to themselves, they are as dirty/ smelly as the grounds they're polluting.

- OWS protestors have no agenda, but rather are gathering just to complain about "The Man", an imaginary entity who has accumulated "too much" for himself through his own hard work and won't give them free stuff.

- OWS protestors are kicking the homeless out of their camps because they feel like the homeless are mooching off of them, so they're alienating the very group they pretend to be concerned about.

Now before everyone grabs their blowtorch to start flaming me, I did not say I am participating in such discussions, I'm not. I'm merely relaying what I read in the MSM, blogs and even right here on ATS on nearly a daily basis. OWS is very disorganized and as a result, their key message is not getting through. The above points are what is getting through. OWS needs to regroup and determine how they can formulate a strong message and how they can convey that to the public at large.

reply to post by relpobre000


LL

Can anyone show me what this movement has actually accomplished except for further dividing opinions? (my guess is nothing of note)..

they've shaken you out of your apathetic stupor, methinks.
they've got you feeling threatened enough,
for you to waste energy in going around badmouthing them.

EDIT to add:

Originally posted by relpobre000

Originally posted by mr-lizard
But then again, i'm assuming if these people DID start wearing hemp clothing and threw away their phones/cameras - you'd be the type of person to call them dirty luddites and hippies eh?

That's you making assumptions about me. You don't know me and making those assumptions makes you appear ignorant.

but you KNOW everything about the Individuals protesting?

As far as these people wearing hemp etc. I don't care what they do.

then why so many negative posts re OWS?

In the end I have no stock in this little 'revolution'. They won't accomplish anything

OWS isn't there to increase the value of your portfolio, nuff said.

edit on 7-11-2011 by relpobre000 because: blah

indeed, blah.

Originally posted by Skippy1138
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

How is this photo a judgement against OWS? Aren't they upset that corporations have weasled their way into every single aspect of our life? Arent they protesting that its IMPOSSIBLE to escape corporate capitalism?

So what does this photo even prove except that we're all shoulder deep in corporate products, protestors and non protestors alike.

At least there are people out there using corporate products AGAINST corporations.

There's nothing wrong with corporations or products themselves. Its how they're USED BY PEOPLE that makes them good or bad for people.

This photo is actually reenforces OWS message.

reply to post by petrus4

im sure what all you occupy haters are meaning to say is that your here because ATS has became a bastion of misinformation and informatic diversion and you feel its your duty to discredit this movement.

I have been a member here for years, and every time something "big" like this happens, armys of people crawl out of the woodwork and start "rant" threads like this...The same thing happens every time israel attack palestine with groups of aggressive israeli's coming in and posting rants against palestine and propeganda showing how the palestiniens are evil .

The same thing also happens with most ideas obama has, the big one was when he was trying to give america a decent social healthcare system where people would not need to worry about how they would manage to pay a small fortune to have a kidney stone removed, but instead of common sence the same misinformant cockroaches crawled out from under their log to aggressivly discredit his plans and posting link after link of bunk infomr...sorry, propeganda on how obama is evil and why people would have to sell everything they own if they need to go to hospital!

so, now i have had my rant, you will understand why i have great comtempt for anyone who comes on ATS and posts complete farcical rants like you have today! you have a problem with the occupy events??? i really really do not see how unless you are infact one of these people who have way to much money .

The facts are out their, these 99% / 1% numbers are not made up, they are hard fact and effecting everyone world wide! Here in the uk its just as apparent as in america. FACT IS that 1 % of people control 99% of the money and 99% not only have nothing compared to the 1%, we also pay for their existance!

that was my rant ... touche!

now i just need to sit back and wait for someone with no real comeback or valid discussion / argument launch an attack on my grammer!

edit, to the reply above with the "witty" image / pun.

if you can find media recording equiptment and a way to transmit a message to the world that doesnt include getting something from a big company, please enlight the massess to how this is remotely possible! The image you posted is completly ridicilious (its a classic tabliod newspaper type spin on a situation) as theirs no way to do anything today without using these items the above image points to!

Corporations aren't the problem. It's their ways and corruption that are the problem.
Governments aren't the problem. It's their ways and corruption that are the problem.

If we manage to change their ways and get rid of the corruption inside, everything will be solved.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I think people who are criticizing the OWS protestors are the "establishment" old and decrepit curmudgeons, envious of anyone able to get out of their chairs and march.

More tactics to call anyone who doesnt agree "stupid" or pro corruption.......

You can always tell when the OWS supporters have lost their argument because they accuse you of being something your not........you cannot have a different opinion......

We MUST fall in line..........we MUST agree........

well I WILL NOT trade one form of tyranny for another........

What a laugh.
Just another way to protect corporate interest and the selling out of the American people.

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

WHAT do you hope to accomplish by gathering in the park??? And I have to be honest...while you are patting yourselves on the back that you have raised awareness, you need to realize that mainstream America thinks OWS is a joke. So they are mostly aware of something they think is a JOKE. While I respect your passion, I do disagree with many of the multiple the messages overall, and think that your anger should be directed toward the government. I think the movement would have garnered a LOT more support if it had been "Occupy the government".

I guess you missed this or did not catch the drift.

The Twenty-sixth Amendment (Amendment XXVI) to the United States Constitution limited the minimum voting age to no more than 18. It was adopted in response to student activism against the Vietnam War and to partially overrule the Supreme Court's decision in Oregon v. Mitchell. It was adopted on July 1, 1971.

I don't think anyone is patting themselves on the back.
Right now they are protecting themselves from slander and misrepresentation.

If we do not have enough minimum wage jobs to go around, how do you suppose this is going to affect the country? And if minimum wage does not keep up with cost of living what do you think is going to happen? You don't have to be Einstein to figure the people are going to revolt and maybe they won't change everything tomorrow but in the coming days and in the next election...wait. The Tea Party did it. Paybacks a beach.

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by Skippy1138
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

How is this photo a judgement against OWS? Aren't they upset that corporations have weasled their way into every single aspect of our life? Arent they protesting that its IMPOSSIBLE to escape corporate capitalism?

So what does this photo even prove except that we're all shoulder deep in corporate products, protestors and non protestors alike.

At least there are people out there using corporate products AGAINST corporations.

There's nothing wrong with corporations or products themselves. Its how they're USED BY PEOPLE that makes them good or bad for people.

This photo is actually reenforces OWS message.

very interesting and valid perspective... at first tbh it looks silly and hypocritical but when you look at the big picture it is very different. They are using their products AGAINST the corporations as you stated... the products are not the problem... it is neglect of the voice of the people, greed, and manipulation which is the problem

I always read both threads for and against OWS just because I want to see both sides and to be honest I have yet to stumble upon any concise and legitimate reason why we should not be supporting the movement. It seems to be mostly about attacking the messenger instead of the message

If you don't think they are going to accomplish anything well then good for you... go to work, go to school, do whatever you want but I think it is pretty immature and primitive these days to make criticism that is not constructive. Your contribution and attitude clearly shows you have beliefs that limit what you think is possible in this world

reply to post by petrus4

You won't do this, however. You won't do the one thing that could save you. I know you won't, and the corporations know it too. You are 100% corporate raised, and 100% corporate owned. You protest their behaviour, but existence without them is completely incomprehensible to you. They have existed since before you were born, and you have no understanding of what life would be like without them.

And it is this totalitarianism they are fighting. What good would be giving up their cell phones? When it is not fair market capitalism or modern conveniences they are protesting. It is not business in general.

It is corruption and collusion with the government and Wall Street dictating government rulings and decisions that affect the people adversely and unfairly. It is the conflict of interest these people are protesting.

Their chances for success are non existent. The deck is stacked against them like it has never been in any other generation. Sure it is easy after you have lived and made a success of yourself to say buck up and work harder. There used to be jobs and the paychecks were in line with the cost of living. It was always a challenge and always a little difficult but it was not impossible to succeed.


Our government and the society we live in has been allowed through De-regulation to digress to a point where minimum wage is a fraction of the cost of living. Food, clothing shelter. These are fundamental human rights. They cannot be priced out of the range of normal people. You should not have to be exceptional to feed your family. You should not need a law degree to NOT be swindled out of your home by the banks.


You think this is a Republic? Look around you. This is no republic. This is a Corporatocracy.
The peoples individual rights are subverted, privacy stolen (personal information) gathered, and sold off in bundles on a daily basis. You suggest not using the phones. How about making invasions of privacy and sale of personal information illegal? You think less gov't intervention is going to do that? Hardly in fact - just the opposite.


We the people want our Republic back. And we want to keep the call phones and means of communications too. We also want to feed our families, work and educate our children. If people have to stand in the streets to get that point across who are you to denounce them?

You know the civil rights movement had Nay sayers too

A report from Dan Rather on the Civil rights movement

Much of white America supported desegregation but didn't support the demonstrations, the passive resistance and civil disobedience that Dr. King had learned from Thoreau and Gandhi - and from Mrs. Parks, for that matter. This was a kind of ambivalence on the part of white Americans, and it gave some unscrupulous figures in local, state, and federal government the opportunity to try to skew events - and press coverage - their way.

SO yeah, sounds alot like the Anti- OWS people to me, sure people "support" the idea, but all that protesting just worthless

And that whole skewing of events he mentions at the end, that whats happening now, read the article, it talkes about the level of press integrity of the time required in order to avoid corporate and government interest from skewing the reports, SOmething we have long ago lost.

Covering the civil rights movement

Originally posted by petrus4
It's because the movement genuinely deserves derision. I finally realised the same thing about Anonymous more generally.

For the most part, they are a group of gullible, utterly naive, adolescent dupes who get led around by the nose, by the very people they claim to be fighting against. The "Arab Spring," hasn't occurred for any reason other than for the Arab puppets to be exchanged for others, who can be more readily controlled by foreign interests, and who have not committed visible attrocities, so it will be easier for them to manipulate their populations.

The arab spring is ongoing and it is pretty dismissive to say that it is solely an exchange of puppets for others. In reality a regional awakening that has spread across the world... to what may be referred to as a global awakening.

It MAY result and may have already resulted in the exchange of puppets but to say this is occurring amongst the entire Arab spring movement is not true. Think about places like Bahrain, Iran, Yemen, or Egypt? Places like Libya would fall under a manipulated, illegitimate, and hijacked uprising.

The other thing that needs to be understood here, which I have repeatedly tried to emphasise, is that protesting in the manner that they are doing, is a completely, utterly worthless, and futile activity. There is only one thing that can be done to bring down the corporate world, and it is the one thing which Occupy can be counted on not to do.

That one thing is boycott. All of the teenagers who have attended Occupy protests have one thing in common; they are all carrying a mobile phone in one hand, and an IPod in the other. They are still paying mobile phone subscription fees, and they are still paying for music from ITunes. They are probably also still buying cans of Coke, and eating from McDonald's.
In other words, these protestors are not detrimentally affecting these corporations, in any way that said corporations care about, whatsoever.

I think what should be understood from this statement, again... like all your other statements are very dismissive, narrow minded,and conclusive. This movement is spontaneous and any kind of attitude like yours im sorry to say is very negative, deconstructive and is worse then uselessness you see in the OWS movement.

How can we "fix" things if we don't even know why or what is broken? The OWS movement is an awakening and oppurtunity for the exchange of free information locally, in person, and free from any biased globalist NWO garbage you would hear on television... I think that alone is enough to say this is far from worthless and it has already achieved so much... you would see that if you pulled your head out of the sand. But really.. i dont want to attack the messenger as much as i'd like to attack the message

read this: www.activistpost.com...

THE ONLY THING CORPORATIONS CARE ABOUT IS MONEY. THEY CARE MORE ABOUT MONEY, THAN THEY LITERALLY CARE ABOUT BEING ALIVE IN ORDER TO SPEND IT.

So you can stand wherever you like, and wave idiotic placards for as long as you like. It will accomplish absolutely nothing. The only group that will potentially be harmed by this, other than the protestors themselves, are the police who are behaving in as moronic and cowardly a manner as usual, by shooting themselves in the foot with excessive force. They don't realise that the only thing they need to do here is wait.

What needs to happen, is something that these corporate-raised children, most of whom were born after 1990, are incapable of literally comprehending, let alone actually doing.

Yes unfortunately some of what you have said here is true. Most of us are utterly reliant on these corporations for our survival and abundant lifestyles. But keep in mind... the word corporation does not necesarily have to mean "evil". The products and services by (most) of these corporations are what provide us with the standard of living we enjoy in our lives. But the problem is that they got us stuck in a system where with the knowledge and technology we have these days we could do SO much more for so much less.

We are stuck in a system that throws a bone at us for everything we do, slaps us in the face while they're at it, and they might even riddle you with bullets if they needed to. There is nothing wrong with a rich and abundant lifestyle... it is the fact that it is inhibited by this system we live in ...which often relies on theft, lying, deception, manipulation, and murder which is the problem.

Unfortunately we have become so reliant on them that there is no other way to effectively replace them without partly using them...its just not possible. But theres nothing wrong with that.. we should embrace every tool we have to change the world the way we want it to be changed even if it means using products of those who created all the problems

YOU NEED TO BEGIN MAKING THE THINGS YOU NEED TO SURVIVE, WITH YOUR OWN HANDS. YOU NEED TO STOP GIVING CORPORATIONS MONEY FOR THESE THINGS, AND START TO PRODUCE THEM YOURSELVES.

That means learning textiles and making your own clothes, rather than continuing to pay for mass-produced, Chinese sweatshop crap, which costs $15 apiece and falls apart in 2-3 months. It means re-learning ALL of the old crafts; producing your own food, and ceasing to rely on corporate-produced electronics. Start learning about Tesla's patents if you want a non-corporate controlled version of the Internet; he predicted such a possibility, but via his ionospheric broadcast system.

I'm pretty sure resorting to primitive technologies which we simply don't need anymore will help humanity flourish...? We seriously cannot sustain a comfortable lifestyle if we were to make our own clothes, textiles, crafts, or electronics... it seems you automatically associate technology with something that is bad... it can be, but it doesn't HAVE to be.

They have existed since before you were born, and you have no understanding of what life would be like without them.

Yes and like I had any say in what happend before I was born? Does this or any of the above statements contribute to maybe changing anything for the better?

YOU DO NOT TRULY WANT FREEDOM, BECAUSE THAT WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING DIFFICULT OR UNCOMFORTABLE.
So stop lying to yourselves, and stop lying to the rest of us. Just sit back, relax, play another iTunes-bought mp3, shove more GMO industrial pollution masquerading as food into your mouths, and continue to accept the corporate sodomy; because we all know that after a few weeks of making yourselves look edgy, rebellious, and cool, that's what you're going to go back to doing anyway.

You have no integrity, no discipline, no stamina, and no intelligence. You are incapable and, in all honesty, unwilling to produce genuine change.

end /rant (more like giant text block of generilizations, accusations, and arragonce) ?

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl


Right on, GeorgiaGirl!

Huffington Post

There is an old joke about an optimistic kid that is left in a room full to the brim with horse sh*t. The people who left him there return about an hour later, and to their surprise, they find the boy happily digging through the sh*t and ask "Hey Boy! What are you doing?," to which the boy responds: "With all this sh*t I figured there's got to be a pony in here somewhere."

I recently took a tour of the Occupy Wall Street demonstration in Zuccoti Park, trying to find the pony.

The reason there are daily posts bashing OWS is because there is no PONY! It is a street full of people who want change but have no clue how to get it. Protesting is fine to raise awareness but AT SOME POINT you need to move your agenda. Continuing to disrupt society with drums, signs and angry, incoherent rants will accomplish nothing. Many of us know this, which is why I speak out against OWS. They can camp there for 2 years and nothing will change because they have no plan…only anger and frustration!

Walking into the demonstration was like peeling layers of an onion. There was an outer layer of police, followed by a layer of observers, next came sign holders, then campers, and intermixed between them were pods of organized committees (media, law, art, tech, etc.). I spoke to many people, trying to get an idea of the main goal and purpose (pony) they were working toward. The pony I hoped to find would've come in the form of clear policy changes Occupy Wall Street wanted to see. For example, campaign finance reform, Wall Street compensation regulation or Congress term limits. There are still no 'official demands' from the collective, but there has been a lot of press around individuals claiming to make Occupy Wall Street demands. This truly democratic group was trying to do things in a new way, trying to hear and act on everyone's voice in the 99 percent. Unfortunately the result of this can turn into a decentralized cacophony of noise, signs, and demands. Aligned but not organized, loud but not focused.