Occupy Boston Occupies Israeli Consulate After Flotilla Is Stopped

reply to post by nenothtu


although my comment was a hypothetical demonstration of the inverted view. I do agree with you, that the protesters should elect a leader and get busy or go back to whatever they were doing before the OWS movement, but having said that intelligent warfare doesn't require guns, just brains.

I think the reason why OWS is loosing pace, is because they are all pretty much protesting with a single voice on their own issues, opposed to hundreds of thousands of them united in the same voice, they have no leader and little strategy, if OWS wants the rest of the U.S to back them, they need the following:-

1.A nominated leader with a political stance.
2.A united voice with a clear and concise manifesto
3.To resist arms and any other aggressive maneuvers
4.To retain within the law and oust members that stir it up
5.Do not react negatively to increasing force by the authorities, regardless.
6. LOL don't jaywalk or any other petty crimes they can have you for to reduce your numbers.

Originally posted by Anusuia
reply to post by Truth4Thought

 

They are all old ones that are afraid. Stuff is changing so fast now that they pick on a street movement for fodus so that they dont have to focos on what is really scaring them .

basic head in the sand diversion tactic mixed in with dysfunctional family syndrome

Thanks, Doc!

Now have you got a pill to prescribe to address that diagnosis?

If you don't I'm not paying the bill when it comes - I'll send it on to the Psychiatric Medicine Licensing Board for review.

Originally posted by PapaKrok

The individuals you see on TV in their tents are only the foot soldiers. Community support is HUGE and there is a massive cadre of financial and logistical support behind the movement. These supporters work behind the scenes to move and shape public policy and have been doing so for decades. You are only seeing the tip of an iceberg that will completely change the course of our country, our world and its leadership paradigm. I see support from the churches, civic organizations, political organization, radicals both right and left, Birchers, Ron Paul supporters, Democracy Now supporters, communists, Christians, Libertarians, small business owners, GLBT communities, Minority organizations….all of these disparate groups uniting under a common charter to take back freedom and dignity form the powers that be. I have seen Second Amendment activists standing guard over free speech activists. I have seen Born again Christians standing in prayer vigils between liberal, leftist demonstrators and riot police.

Something big is happening here. It is being discussed from pulpits across the world regardless of orientation or affiliation. The message is spreading and people are beginning to wake up to the horrible reality of austerity coming down the pipe.

This movement is organic and collective; it is moving by consensus and without leadership and is not, despite reports, co-optable. I have never seen anything like this. It can't be stopped because it is an idea, not an agenda or a political movement. It is a slow awakening to the absolute horror we have subjected the world to through blind ambition and passive inattention and we are realizing that we may not be able to extricate ourselves collectively unless we do so NOW.

...

Mark my words…this is a glimpse of our collective future. Get involved. Get famailar.

...

We are using the winter to solidify our processes, our intercommunication, our methodology and our will.
Like the troops at Valley Forge, we are planning our battles and biding our time.

We are organized. We are determined and we have nothing to lose. This isn't going away.

Thank you for that admission.

It meshes perfectly with my observations of this "spontaneous movement" which I made over a month ago in this post, before most people could see what you have just admitted here - the Collectivist Agenda.

No, I didn't miss all the "collectives" salted into your admission. My post explains them, and nothing in your rant refutes what I said - it only explains it, strengthens the validity of my post, and attempts to spin what I said more plainly into something "good". It admits the collection of divers mobs of "useful idiots" whose anger and effort will be used against themselves to further a Collectivist Agenda.

Those same "useful idiots" are blissfully unaware of the treatment they will receive at your hands in the "counter-revolutions" after their usefulness to you is over. My purpose in life is to make them aware of that. If they still decide to march into oblivion, that choice is theirs to make, but it should at least be an informed choice.

This part was particularly telling, and oh so true:

These supporters work behind the scenes to move and shape public policy and have been doing so for decades

I KNOW that is so. I've been watching, monitoring, and fighting it for those same decades, which is where my observations in that post sprang from.

Again, thank you for that admission of behind the scenes pre-planning, logistics, financing and organization, the affirmation of my observations of over a month ago.

This morning I woke up to news that an Occupy group had blocked a building in DC and had the meeting participants blocked from leaving, including handicapped and elderly people who they terrified. Sick, really sick. Future inmates of America is what they need to call themselves now.

The Organizers will in the end be liable for the damages to innocent people and the crimes that are happening. Looks like ACORN and SEIU are in fact the real organizers. No doubt some are just innocent stooges, but by now anyone who is in denial about what this really is, shares guilt.

It's obvious now that the Occupy movements are in fact the same old anarchists and union thugs who don't give a damn about anything but attention and themselves, who knowingly stomp all over others rights and innocent people who have nothing to do with it.

The lies won't work anymore. Sooner or later somebody will die and at least two women have been raped by Occupy protestors. Small Business owners are being destroyed and some have already lost it all.

What a bunch of phonies. This is not protest, it's a crime wave. Time for the politicians to represent the 99.99% of us who are disgusted by it and let law enforcement do their jobs and protect the innocent from these anarchist creeps.

reply to post by PapaKrok


There was another thread early today about the way a thread heading is worded so that it influences people in that direction that the Op is aiming for .
It is more like word wars than info wars .

The game on these boards is about recruitment it seems , to your political view point . Because OWS is a political movement as it is based in the dissatifaction of the people with those who cheat lie and steal themselves into the corridors of power .
This has made it like the hot topic to disparage .with certain word useage to influence the minds of others .
I have to admit , that I get influenced by words if I repeatly see them again and agained used in certain mind altering ways. The old , repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth .Thus you can see how fallible our truths are based in . Repeated lies mainly in a propaganda war.

I love the same old line that has been a fall back forever !!! get a JOB or I have a job and have friends to buy presents for . That was so classic .Line Should never be used by one who has sufficent intelligence .

So that lie is spoken constanly by the few progandist on the forums .To them it has become truth that they work , even if it is for the Gov to debunk and influence , and you dont , even though you may employ people yourself and struggle keeping your small business alive against the business disincentives that Gov places in form of taxes etc.

Just observations here , Not that anyone reads them .

reply to post by SLAYER69


It doesn't make sense to use pictures like this against the movement. This pictures are just used to ridicule the movement without talking about the real message behind it.

reply to post by nenothtu


Hmm..I never read that statement before I made my last one . just read it then in your reply . "collectivist Agenda future " ! I hate group think . Institutions that have their own leaders who think themselves the elite ones and form super groups who start swiping all the money coming in from its supporters ( people ) voluntary at first then becomes official taxes .

People are always the same as soon as they get a little power . All their bad qualities come out .

I have no idea what the answer is as we already had a working answer in the form of an elected Gov that quickly became corruptable because the people making it up and the people who want to influence it are of the lower natures .

Lower nature is one that only wants the lesser values of life . Money , Power , at any cost ., no moral left type stuff . No good relgious principle left in them . Principles being the KEY word rather than relious dogmas .

Originally posted by PapaKrok
reply to post by The Old American

 

Once again, it is a resistance movement. Ala Ghandi.

Ghandi was not setting fires in cities, linking arms with Socialists, participating in drug use, taunting police and such.

reply to post by technologicalsingularity


I gave you a star for that.

While I in no way agree with the foundations of this "movement", I've been salting comments here and there in an effort to at least give them a direction and focus so that they stand some chance of making a go of it. I support their right to protest and petition for a redress of grievances, but not as a mob. Mobs never get anything done but destruction.

They will REMAIN a mob until they take as a minimum the steps you outline here, which I agree with wholeheartedly. Anything less is in no way an effort to oppose the status quo and gain results, it's just the attempted collection and herding of an angry mob, making use of the anger for ends which will ultimately prove inimical to that very mob when it's usefulness is done.

I've seen it all before, several times. While their specific methodology may differ in some particulars, the basis and overall thrust is following right along with the established template.

I watched the original video. I haven't had a chance to read through more than the first several pages of the thread.

All I gleaned from this video is that that group likes to do creepy call/repeat chanting and left when they were asked to leave. So what was the point of "occupying" the building if they left in 15-20 minutes?

Also, I can't afford the monthly fees for an iPhone. I believe the filmmaker should give his iPhone to me but continue to pay the monthly fees for me to use it. While I work, he can also continue to protest whatever it is he is protesting and appreciate it when I voice my opinions using his former phone. If he doesn't give it to me, I may try to occupy his tent until he gives it to me. If he still doesn't give it to me, I'll start calling him names and looking angry. I might even rip up his tent.

Do you all think I have a chance of success?

Originally posted by Truth4Thought
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Some of you ATS'ers reall enjoy your enslavement a bit too much. It's obvious some of you are scared of some much needed change. Not everyone finds fulfillment in being corporate slaves and much more.

Wouldn't want to wake all of you up from that comfy nap of yours.

I agree. I'm skeptical and suspicious of the mentality of certain ATSers, because the bottom line is "those protesters" are free to do as they wish, whether you agree with some of their left leaning ideas or not. Those who share the same views as the msm are either misguided or complicit. Period.

Some will argue that George Soros and his super friends are using the old "order out of chaos" formula to grab power, with #ows being the "chaos". Unfortunately it didn't quite turn out that way, protesters have been peaceful for the most part.

There were times where it appeared as though tptb were trying their damnedest to instigate violence, even throwing millions at the NYPD on two separate occasions. However it's simply not working. With some law enforcement refusing to take action, and others beginning to question things, there isn't much time left for tptb.

The best we can do is guide protesters to the truth, not belittle them.

reply to post by macman


His followers were actually quite active in riots and clashes with police, were using Hash and opium, like the rest of India, and making a general mess of the place in protest.

reply to post by technologicalsingularity


Your reaction portraits the true spirit of the occupy movement in the fact that it is evil and consist of snobbish antisemtic cretins. Furthermore I would like to ad that this kind of behaviour is not only inapropriate but lacks any moral ethics which is presented by human being who would actually let their conscience work. No wonder is america, europe is FUBAR.

Originally posted by PapaKrok
reply to post by The Old American

 

Once again, it is a resistance movement. Ala Ghandi.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Anusuia


Principle IS the key there. Religious dogma belongs in religion, not government. Religion mixes about as well with government as money does.

We will have both collectives and individuals for as long as we have people, because collectives are constructed from individuals, and most individuals will gravitate towards one collective or another. People in general are gregarious.

The main differences in Collectivism and Individualism isn't one of "gathering", but rather of how that gathering is accomplished. Collectivists think that everyone should be forced into their own collective, Individuals think they should be allowed a choice of which Collective to associate themselves with. When Collectivism wins out, you have the Hive Mind, or as you put it "Group Think". Some will naturally gravitate towards that gathering, being those who prefer not to have to think for themselves, but would rather have someone else think and decide for them.

There's really nothing wrong with that intrinsically. That's just how some people are made. They too should be allowed that choice.

Problems arise, however, when one Collective decides to take it upon itself to "draft" everyone else into it's own "Group Think Hive". Then free choice of association is removed from the individual, and naturally some of the more individually minded among us are going to kick up a fuss against that, We do not choose to associate with that collective, and will be damned if we will be force into it either through force of arms or the more insidious and subtle attempts to co-opt us with claims of speaking for us, fighting for us, or trying to gerrymander us into a collective by redefining a mythical "99%" within which they attempt to herd us through simple redefinition to force us within the boundaries of their New Collective.

While Collectivists have a right to join whatever collective they like, those rights END when they attempt to draft unwilling others into their own collective.

That's the essence of the way our system was originally set up - to protect the individual from the tyranny of "the masses". This is why Direct Democracy is a BAD idea - it fails to protect the individual from the whims of the mob. Everyone else gets to vote YOUR rights away. I don't care if it's labelled "communism" or "socialism" or "direct democracy" or whatever else you can come up with, it is STILL collectivist in nature and seeks only to subvert the will of the individual and make of him or her nothing more than a cog in the machine, and ant in the hive.

The only answer to that which I can come up with off the top of my head is for the People to force accountability among the governors, and insure that individual rights are protected, while allowing collectivists to join the hive of their choice - but limiting said hive from drafting unwilling participants.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Anusuia

 

Principle IS the key there. Religious dogma belongs in religion, not government. Religion mixes about as well with government as money does.

We will have both collectives and individuals for as long as we have people, because collectives are constructed from individuals, and most individuals will gravitate towards one collective or another. People in general are gregarious.

The main differences in Collectivism and Individualism isn't one of "gathering", but rather of how that gathering is accomplished. Collectivists think that everyone should be forced into their own collective, Individuals think they should be allowed a choice of which Collective to associate themselves with. When Collectivism wins out, you have the Hive Mind, or as you put it "Group Think". Some will naturally gravitate towards that gathering, being those who prefer not to have to think for themselves, but would rather have someone else think and decide for them.

There's really nothing wrong with that intrinsically. That's just how some people are made. They too should be allowed that choice.

Problems arise, however, when one Collective decides to take it upon itself to "draft" everyone else into it's own "Group Think Hive". Then free choice of association is removed from the individual, and naturally some of the more individually minded among us are going to kick up a fuss against that, We do not choose to associate with that collective, and will be damned if we will be force into it either through force of arms or the more insidious and subtle attempts to co-opt us with claims of speaking for us, fighting for us, or trying to gerrymander us into a collective by redefining a mythical "99%" within which they attempt to herd us through simple redefinition to force us within the boundaries of their New Collective.

While Collectivists have a right to join whatever collective they like, those rights END when they attempt to draft unwilling others into their own collective.

That's the essence of the way our system was originally set up - to protect the individual from the tyranny of "the masses". This is why Direct Democracy is a BAD idea - it fails to protect the individual from the whims of the mob. Everyone else gets to vote YOUR rights away. I don't care if it's labelled "communism" or "socialism" or "direct democracy" or whatever else you can come up with, it is STILL collectivist in nature and seeks only to subvert the will of the individual and make of him or her nothing more than a cog in the machine, and ant in the hive.

The only answer to that which I can come up with off the top of my head is for the People to force accountability among the governors, and insure that individual rights are protected, while allowing collectivists to join the hive of their choice - but limiting said hive from drafting unwilling participants.

Good response . Very scholarly . Good definitions. Its true we all do enjoy our little tribes , and then some seek to head to the top of the tribe / hive . . its a natural system but qualifications must be there , thus it behooves the collective to know what qualities it seeks in a leader and enforce them or be able to sack them . Remember the old adage . you get the leaders you deserve . they are a general reflection of the minds of the mass .

Originally posted by Anusuia
Good response . Very scholarly . Good definitions. Its true we all do enjoy our little tribes , and then some seek to head to the top of the tribe / hive . . its a natural system but qualifications must be there , thus it behooves the collective to know what qualities it seeks in a leader and enforce them or be able to sack them . Remember the old adage . you get the leaders you deserve . they are a general reflection of the minds of the mass .

There's also an old adage that says anyone who wants to lead isn't fit to lead. It's not strictly true in some exceptional cases, but in the main it's nearly iron clad. In general, people who want to lead are in it for the power, and that's precisely the people you DON'T want to have power.

I think that term limits are a good idea. Sure, there will be the occasions when a good leader will run up against a term limit, and have to give over to another, but for the most part term limits reduce the amount of damage any one person can do, and leaves that person in situ for a shorter period of time in which to be corrupted.

You're right, in some exceptional cases the leader(s) will need to be immediately sacked. Some crimes are so heinous that they don't merit a second chance. In anticipation of those cases, there should be procedures for immediate recall or impeachment, and special election sorts of replacement selection, without having to wait for them to complete a full term of damage before removal. When they know that the people are watching, and have their finger on the button just in case, they're less likely to do anything overtly detrimental.

There's a lot of overhaul that needs to be done on a lot of places, but a meal is eaten one bite at a time. What is needed is prioritization and concentration on one or two things at a time, and once they are accomplished, move on to the next.

Personally, I believe that what should be the highest priority first off is to outlaw lobbying in all it's nefarious forms. Once the gravy train is cut off, fewer of the riff raff will be drawn to office as pigs to the trough. If the office holders don't want to get that done, then fire and replace, and keep doing that until they get the message. More compliant politicians should be the result of that, and once installed, the electorate will have an easier time of getting the rest of their demands met.

Further down the road, there are a whole boat load of agencies which serve only to bloat the government that I'd like to see done entirely away with, but first things first - concentrate on cutting off the gravy train.

Originally posted by PapaKrok
reply to post by macman

 

His followers were actually quite active in riots and clashes with police, were using Hash and opium, like the rest of India, and making a general mess of the place in protest.

Your Semantics are not that good.

Gandhi was for non-violent protest, practiced this and was not known for any drug use. Please go back and re-read your history.
The statement from you was about Gandhi, not of the followers you suggest.

Originally posted by knightrider078
The Tea party is a resistance movement then

Based on that logic then so are the Democrats who fled Wisconsin / Indiana / etc etc etc.

How bout we apply common sense instead of grandstanding so we dont drag the thread off topic?

What reason would OWS people take this action? Are they upset about corporate greed, or foreign policy? I respect their right to protest and be heard, however I dont agree with their choice to seize the Israeli consulate and take hostages.

For a group who likes to criticise government action, which apparently includes foreign policy as well now, they apparently dont have any issues to selectively apply their morals.

If government does it = bad and evil
If OWS does it = legitimate and legal under the law argument.

The Government of the United States is responsible for the safety of all Embassies / Consulates etc in the United States. Embassies are the one area where examples should never be made. What the protestors did was a huge breach of Diplomatic Protocol.

In this instance I wouldnt say the protestors are suporting the Palestinian people. I would equate their action as support for Hamas, where their ends justify the means.

Ironic that a group who takes Israel to task seizes and takes hostages - You know, what they are accusing srael of.

reply to post by macman


Yea, probably not a good analogy as OWS is actually a leaderless movement. It is, right now in most places, an austerity based reacitive movement rather than a revolution. We are not looking to work within a broken system, we are looking to remove it and start over with something else. The solution lies, not in elections and special interest appeals but in total dissembly of the current world plutocracy. It is working, look at the reactions from the banks.

I agree that it should remain somewhat peaceful and it should remain pretty damn ambiguous in order to confuse TPTB. They want leaders to capture and riots to squash...I think we can strangle or bleed the system dry if we really want to and avoid the casualties. I fear, though, that there will be blood by mid summer. Some of the Occupy movements here in the West are beginning to arm.

World wide coordination is beginning and we should be able to launch a more cohesive campaign by spring.

Here's the thing. The world as we know it is about to change. Things are going to fall apart rapidly. We need to decide if we are going to rebuild it democratically or if we are going to allow a Hitleresque figure to romance us with security. Both futures exists now and depend on our choices in the next couple of months. Freedom VS security will be the choice each of us has to make. Christians should really consider joining the movement as they will be the scapegoat for the fascists possibility......