the mystery of eating Jesus' flesh

A brief Youtube filmed first in Capernaum...the site, it's beautiful. There is a second location and it is gorgeous, both but, you will love Our Lord more once viewing this...
Father Barron explains, when Jesus' followers first doubted His words, Our Lord returned to explain
with more emphasis what He had just explained.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by colbe


Here is the beautiful passage referred to, (John 6):

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe... this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble?.. 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

For those who follow Christ these are crucial words.

The key to perceiving their true meaning is contained within the words themselves.

1) Those who understand, and believe are all "taught by God" (v45), and have received the Holy Spirit (v63).
2) The "bread of life" equates to Christ himself (v48 & 50)
3) To receive the life that comes from eating this bread a person needs to understand that this bread, Christ's flesh, was "given" (v51)
4) Those who did not, or do not, understand that he was referring to giving his body up for crucifixion as an atoning sacrifice were, and are, unable to accept his teaching, and "stumble" (v61)

Hence Christ was teaching his disciples to 'look' at the Cross, perceive the means of the forgiveness of sins, and 'digest' his sacrifice. He was not teaching them about taking bread and wine at communion, which is simply a memorial:

...“This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me".

1 Cor 11:24&25

reply to post by colbe


Hi Colbe

"Amen, Amen I say to you: unless you eat the Flesh of the Bar Enasha ('the son of Man', see Aram. Dan 7:13-15) and drink his Blood, you will have no Chayyim ('life') in you..."


Ewww. Sounds kind of like a Warrior Messiah Cannibal Cult, if you ask me !!

(see the Aram. Targum of Hez. 39:17-21)

Bar Enasha, thus says YHWH the King : Summon every kind of bird and wild animal and say to them:

‘Assemble and come together from all around
to the sacrifice I am preparing for you,
even the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel.

There you will eat flesh and drink blood.
Yea, you will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the land
as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—
yea, all of them as fattened cows of Bashan.

For at the Sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted
and drink blood till you are drunk with the drinking of it.

At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders,
mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the YHWH your king..

For I will display my glory among the Gentiles
And all the Goyim shall witness the Punishment I inflict when I lay my hands on them !"

Of course there WAS a giant war of the Jews against Rome in 66-72 CE, but...well, look how that turned out !!

It's no coincidence that there was a golden table in the Holy chamber of the Temple to be a place for the show bread. The bread represented the human body and the blood represented the life force.

Jesus body was never corrupted from a cellular structure point of view. Symbolically eating his perfect flesh would be likened to having his uncorrupted cellular flesh or DNA copied onto the faithful one so as to make that one seem uncorrupted as well. The human family has numerous defective genes which can be activated and cause birth defects.

The day Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden fruit is the day the human genetic code was allowed to produce errors.

Its kind of a bit weird that we eat our own Gods...
kx

reply to post by colbe


Hi pause,

In the Youtube, Father Barron shared when followers protested, Jesus used
a stronger word for eating, Our Lord didn't back down and oh, I meant symbolic.

This is How God has chosen to come to us, it is truly on faith, accepting something you cannot see. God can do anything, like Jesus did at the Last Supper, after the priest's words of consecration the bread and wine become Jesus Christ.

The excuse using the verse of "spirit and life" saying spirit means symbolic is
nonsense. Every time Jesus uses the word "spirit" in the Gospel He means
supernatural.

I would love to have the right words to help you with belief pause. Ask God in prayer.


colbe

Thank you to everyone for commenting. You get such a sense of history, way back,
watching Father Barron's video. It is part of series of National Geographic. Father
Barron went around the world to film for this special about Catholicism.

I liked at the end of the video too, the words St. Thomas Aquinas heard from Christ and Thomas' reply.


take care,

colbe

reply to post by colbe

Hi pause,

...Our Lord didn't back down and oh, I meant symbolic...

...The excuse using the verse of "spirit and life" saying spirit means symbolic is
nonsense. Every time Jesus uses the word "spirit" in the Gospel He means
supernatural.

Colbe, thank you for your response. I appreciate the opportunity to engage with you on this passage of teaching.

The crux of the matter is, in reality, neither a choice between 'symbolic' and 'literal', nor between 'supernatural' and 'natural'. It is a matter of whether the listener hears in a fleshly way, or a spiritual way. As the Lord himself said to his hearers on numerous occasions, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Now consider this passage from John chapter 4:

7 There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. 9 Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.” 11 She said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep; where then do You get that living water? 12 You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?” 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
15 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw...”

This dear (sinful) woman is listening with her fleshly hearing and understanding. She therefore totally misunderstands what the Lord is saying. It is only when the Spirit of God begins to open her mind to spiritual things (shortly afterwards) that a wonderful transformation takes place: she (—along with many others in her circle—) begins to truly comprehend Jesus' words, and understand who he really is:

41 Many more believed because of His word; 42 and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

Jesus did not need to tell his hearers "I meant symbolic" in some crass way. He was not engaged in an academic dispute about hermeneutics. On the contrary, he prayed:

Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. 26 Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight.

Matthew 11:25&26

His words were spiritual, and as such are only revealed to a man or woman who has been given spiritual understanding by the Spirit of God. He was calling men and women of all backgrounds — from 'greater' to 'lesser' sinners, from religious to irreligious, to forsake all reliance on anything whatsoever other than on his redeeming sacrifice on the Cross. Those who heard, and believed, his 'flock', had their sin paid for at Calvary. That is the spiritual food that sustains them throughout life, the bread of Heaven, commemorated by bread and wine as a reminder to forgetful people.

What I have said is not my teaching; it is the teaching of the Master himself. Note:

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; 2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

John ch 3

Nicodemus' questions seem crass. But they illustrate how anyone in their natural state, unenlightened by the Holy Spirit, totally fails to grasp Jesus' teaching.

His words are spiritual and give spiritual life.

spiritually meant or just a code word... the fleash & blood of Jesus did not meet the criteria of being Kosher...

to me, no ammount of spiritualizing would make the poetic 'consuming' his spiritualized body & blood a nice thing to do.


he was severely beaten, then speared before dying on a crucifixion stake around 2-3PM that day

The metaphor is still shaky, even when Jesus goes into detail and tries to explain it. On one hand, he says that bread is not enough, such as it was not enough -- yet it was -- for the Jews wandering with Moses in the wilderness. Yet he uses bread as a symbol of attaining some kind of understanding of the Holy Spirit (gnosis) and communion with himself and therefore "the Lord," or "the beyond."

It's confusing, and even Jesus doesn't explain it well. I suspect that there is additional text somewhere, more Gnostic, that does a better job of explaining the metaphor, but it was probably eliminated from the Bible during one of the editing sessions that got rid of a lot of the mystical Gnostic stuff. Perhaps something about using the bread and wine to understand that we human beings will always exist in a physical world, and that will always have to take precedence over any concerns about the afterlife. You have to live before you can have an afterlife, and you should remember that Jesus, the Son of Man, told you so. Because he was flesh and blood, like everybody else. Eat and drink, and pause to remember what it means.

Maybe something like that. It's a bit reminiscent of Buddhism, I suppose. First recognize the lousy situation you're in. Then maybe work on transcending it.

When Jesus uses the "spirit" in Scripture He means supernatural. God's gift of
Himself in the Holy Eucharist is supernatural.

Jesus never ran after His disbelieving followers to correct them, saying, My meaning
is symbolic. No, He turned to the 12 and said are you going to go away too?

Jesus keeps emphasizing it is His body and blood. Watch the video. He uses a stronger word.

And, God doesn't give up...a little sign to those who protest. The Latin Vulgate,
is the first Bible. In the English translation of the Vulgate, the Douay-Rheims Bible since not everyone can read Latin, it was the common language of the time in the 4th century.

Look at verse John 6:66.
And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father

www.drbo.org...

Now go to the King James Version, read John 6:66. It is not the same because
Catholics believe in the Real Presence. God want everyone to accept this
Truth. It is the gift of God Himself totally...God asks you to believe by faith.

Here is the hint...in the KJV. We all know whose number is 666.
King James Version (KJV)
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

In the soon Great Warning (Revelation 6:12-17) this Truth will be revealed to
the entire world, every soul cause God loves everyone. Say "yes" when He
shows you.

Part of the Great Warning will be revelation about the anti-Christ. In the Book
of Daniel and present day prophecy, Jesus states "The anti-Christ will abolish
My Eucharist." Come to believe now, there is no continual sacrifice in Judaism or Protestantism. God's prophecy from the Old Testament is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Jesus' words again given in a message, 9/18/11, "the anti-Christ will abolish My Eucharist"...this is the "abomination of desolation" spoken of in Daniel. These two terms are written together.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice, and they shall place there the abomination of desolation

2 Daniel 12:11 And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination unto desolation shall be set


colbe

reply to post by colbe


Hi Colbe

All this blood drinking and flesh eating cannibalism has its roots in the so-called Mystery Religions which flourished throughout the Roman Empire (from BCE 300 to 700 CE) e.g. the Mysteries of Attis and Kubaba, the Mysteries of Kore & Persephone (i.e. the Eleusian Mysteries of Greece), the Mysteries of Tammuzi (or Attanuz = Adonis) the Mysteries of Wusir & Aset (Gk. Osiris kai Isis), the Mysteries of Hapi-Wusir (Serapis = aka Osiris and Apis) etc. so it is not surprising to hear the early Christian Bishops talking about 'our Mysteries of Christ' and even Saul of Tarsus (where Mithraism was introduced into Rome) spoke weirdo sayings like 'Behold, I tell you a Mystery...we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment and in a twinkling of an eye...'

We can see the Mystery Religions perculating up into the first Christians in their Baptism ceremonies (very similar to the Pythagorean Mysteries, amongst others !) and even Mystery Language is placed into the mouth of the various Greek Speaking Jesuses of the council approved Greek canonical gospels e.g. 'To you is given the Secret of the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven...but to all those outside, everything must appear as riddles...'
echoing the Dead Sea Scrolls mantra of 'things revealed and things concealed' from non-initiates. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls had Mystery Religion Rule Books called 'Serekhim' which were modelled on Greek Mystery Religious Texts for Initiates (e.g. The Scroll of the Rule for the Monastery at Seccacah for all the Sons of Light in the Last Days' or The Scroll of the Rule of all the Sons of Light in the Last Days for the Camps of Yisro'el...)

Interestingly, wine (or the 'blood of the grape' to use a Hebraism) was already adopted as 'the blood of the god' for 'initiates' (Gr. Mustes) to drink in the Mysteries of Mithras, which was introduced to Rome by Cilician Pirates out of Tarsus (where 'Saul/Paul' hailed from) in 79 BCE - the god Mitra was originally from northern Persia and was worshipped as Mithras Helios Invictus, the Unconquorable Sun - one of his 25 or so titles was 'The Mediator' between the gods and mankind, ' Saviour of the World' and identified as 'the sun of Righteousness' (see Malachi chapter 4)

The Mithraic Eucharist-Communion of wine drinking is nearly indistinguishable form the later 2nd century Christian Mysteries of the Feast of the Messiah (Gk. Christos)

See the prayer said at a Mithraic communion where Mithras speaks: "Amen, I say to you, he who will not eat of my body, nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, the same shall not be saved."

This prayer may be compared to the Christian Eucharist story in the 3rd Greek canonical Gospel according to 'Luke' (whoever he was) chapter 21:16ff when a Greek speaking Iesous breaks the matzah bread at Pesach and is purported to say, "The Bar Enasha ('son of man' see Aram. Daniel 7:13) will not again take up the Blood of the Grape to his Lips until he raises it again in the Kingdom...and he broke the bread saying, take this, all of you, for this is my body which is to be broken for you and for the Many...."

The Mithraic bishops wore a pointed style hat known as a Mithras, or Mitre, based on 'the Persian Cap of Perseus-Mithras' as their badge of office which was also adopted by early Christian bishops.

During a mass, Mithraists commemorated the ascension of the sun-god by eating a mizad, a sun shaped bun
with the sword (cross) of Mithra. The mass and the communion wafer were likewise adapted to later Christianity.

I do not think one can overlook the basic facts

l. that the Dead Sea Scroll Community (which flourished between 160 BCE and 68 CE) was formed and run like sort of a Jewish Messianic Apocalyptic Pythagorean Mystery School

2. that Saul of Tarsus hailed from a specific part of the world (Tarsus in Cilicia) where Roman Mithraism had its western Capitol - a Mystery Religion that was already quite ensconced in the Empire by the time of Julius Caesar - and therefore long before 'Iesous' of the Gospels sprang into existence

No wonder elements of the 'pagan' Mystery Schools (like the ritual baptism of initiates, or the drinking of blood of the god or eating of the god's flesh to achieve a kind of spiritual 'communion' with him) were later found creeping into 2nd and 3rd century Christianites as they spread throughout the Empire - they tried to make the 'new religion' acceptable/palatable to Roman Citizens (for financial reasons no doubt) and members of the Mystery Schools could join and bee baptised into several of them at once - !!

Hi,

What can I say, you have to try to change if you disbelieve in the Eucharist.
Reread my last post.

You limit God and are prideful rejecting His plan. He can come down to us
in anyway He wishes. ...no matter that it is fact, historical, people say no.

Why the Great Warning is going to be so marvelous. God loves us so much,
He doesn't want to lose one soul. Jesus' prayer "that we all be one" is going
to be fulfilled.

Why do you say no? Here's your choice, receiving juice and crackers or
God Himself. God is so humble that we can receive Him this way. He in
us and we in Him. John 6:57.

Remember our discussion. Pray about it.

reply to post by pause4thought


Hmmm.. you'd think that if the eucharist was ever understood to be merely a symbol there would be an enduring Christian group that believed this. This is the issue with Protestantism, its entirely divorced from history and its doctrines that aren't nitpicked from Roman Catholicism (like Original Sin, which isn't in the Bible) or a rehash of ancient resolved heresies (Nestorianism, Iconoclasm, and elements of Gnosticism) were totally made up during the enlightenment. If you check out all of the enduring Churches that can trace their succession to the apostles: Orthodox Catholic, Roman Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, Mar Thomas Christians, and the Assyrian Church of the East you will find that every last one of them believes in the real presence.

The protestant assumption that there can be no physical means by which the Holy Spirit is imparted (despite clear scriptural witness to the contrary! Peter 3:21 [Baptism] Acts 19:12 [Holy objects with healing power] and Corinthians 10-11 which not only says the cup of blessing is the participation the body and blood, but that those who partook unworthily died!) is a product of enlightenment era rationalism. It is also a form of gnosticism in that it vehemently asserts that the spiritual cannot be attached to anything spiritual.

Much of John's Gospel is a repudiation of this kind of thinking, in that it constantly emphasizes the physical nature of the resurrection (most notably emphasized in Christ's meeting with Thomas). If you look at the Greek wording used in John 6:53-54 you will notice some interesting things. 6:53 "Verily, Verily I say unto you unless you eat (esthio: to consume, very basic) the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you". Notice, in the next verse, he changes the word for eat: 6:54 "Whoso eateth (trogo: to crunch, gnaw, it's very visceral) my flesh (sarx: very carnal and bloody word for flesh, again quite visceral) and drinketh (pino:literally drink) my blood (Haima: means blood and things like unto it [see Revelations 14:20]) hath eternal life". The emphasis made between these two passages, that is lost in translation is further brought home by: "For my flesh is meat indeed and my blood is drink indeed." So scandalous was this, that even many disciples left.

This passage is a clear emphasis on the material aspect of salvific work, such as Christ's true presence in the Eucharist. Also, seeing as this was the last Gospel written, it is likely that the beloved disciple was clarifying issues, because there was one group in it's infancy at the time that denied the presence in the Eucharist and the physical resurrection of Christ: the Gnostics. St. Ignatius of Antioch (b. circa 35- and reposed circa 108) who studied under the apostle John himself, is more clear in the denunciation of this idea:

"Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead." "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.

St. Ignatius isn't alone either. You won't find a symbolic approach to the Eucharist among the Church Fathers.

The Gnostics believed the physical world to be evil and thus denied any physical aspect of salvation such as a bodily resurrection or the presence of Christ in physical bread and wine. Now in the wake of the enlightenment and in Protestantism, everyone just "knows better" than to believe that the Holy Spirit can descend from on high and bless or enter into anything physical, that's just "hocus pocus" (etymologically derived from "Hoc est corpus man", "This is my body"). Behind this guise of rationalism is the spirit of neo-Gnosticism. From claims that the Holy Mysteries of Baptism, Chrismation, the Eucharist, Marriage, Ordination (laying on of hands) etc. is all symbolic despite the the testament of scripture to statements at funerals like, "his spirit is free of the mortal coil" (despite death being an unnatural product of sin and scripture clearly showing that heaven cannot be experiences until the resurrection) Gnosticism has clearly permeated Protestantism, which in divorcing itself from history has subjected itself to all of the debates and heresies of the first millenium of Christianity.

Here's a good video on the subject

Originally posted by colbe

... you will love Our Lord more once viewing this...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Sigismundus


Too lazy to reply to every point. Let me just make the point for everyone subjected to this post: it should be known that religious history and archaeology are full of warring factions and competing theoretical party lines. The whole field is very imprecise and full of charlatans. The theories that shook the world 50 years ago are considered bunk today, so it is best to just remain agnostic (considerate, but take everything with a grain of salt) on the issues when they pop up. For every point made here, there is a counter point. If you don't know about tektoniks.org it's a very useful defense against this kind of stuff. Since I'm too lazy to make a rebuttle to this obnoxious Jesus mythicism (which I have seen and answered so many times *hits head on desk*), I'll let the professionals do it for me: www.tektonics.org...

It also helps to not be a Biblical literalist, which I think goes hand in hand with being a good Christian, because by saying the Bible is the perfect inerrant word of God, you are making an idol and are begging to be lead astray or driven insane trying to defend every inconsistency. As an Orthodox Christian, I am not even slightly fazed by the suggestion that the concept of resurrection was introduced to Judaism by Zoroastrianism or that the concept of the Logos came from Pagan Greek philosophers, because it backs up the idea of the spermatikos logos (the seed of the Word) within the human heart; the attestation of the Godhead by every human soul. I would recommend that anyone read "Christ the Eternal Tao" by Heiromonk Damascene: www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320739538&sr=8-1 The fact that the Greek philosophers were speaking of the Logos, Lao Tsu was attesting to the Tao, and the prophets (Isaiah namely) were preaching of the coming Christ at the same time is mind-bogglingly cool.

Hi colbe, I greatly admire you my friend for having the courage to create this thread.

Unfortunately, those without the Spirit of the Living God will not be able to comprehend the profound beauty of what you are bravely attempting to share.

As you can see, many will say that the ceremony was adopted from a variety of pagan cults and attempt to summarily dismiss the reality and power of the Eucharist on the basis of such superficial grounds. The fact that Satan or Lucifer illegitimately presents himself as an "angel of light" and has tried for a long time to create a counterfeit of the true religion many times, will fail to penetrate their erroneous reasoning concerning the matter under discussion. One can only pray that the darkness that blinds their hearts and minds to the truth will be removed by the merciful hand of God's grace.

In any case, I thank you for creating this thread and would like to share something from the Catechism of the Catholic Church for consideration -

"The fruits of Holy Communion"

"1391 Holy Communion augments our union with Christ. The principal fruit of receiving the Eucharist in Holy Communion is an intimate union with Christ Jesus. Indeed, the Lord said: "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." Life in Christ has its foundation in the Eucharistic banquet: "As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me."

"On the feasts of the Lord, when the faithful receive the Body of the Son, they proclaim to one another the Good News that the first fruits of life have been given, as when the angel said to Mary Magdalene, "Christ is risen!" Now too are life and resurrection conferred on whoever receives Christ."

"1392 What material food produces in our bodily life, Holy Communion wonderfully achieves in our spiritual life. Communion with the flesh of the risen Christ, a flesh "given life and giving life through the Holy Spirit," preserves, increases, and renews the life of grace received at Baptism. This growth in Christian life needs the nourishment of Eucharistic Communion, the bread for our pilgrimage until the moment of death, when it will be given to us as viaticum."

Also in 1402 it goes on to state - 'In an ancient prayer the Church acclaims the mystery of the Eucharist: "O sacred banquet in which Christ is received as food, the memory of his Passion is renewed, the soul is filled with grace and a pledge of the life to come is given to us." If the Eucharist is the memorial of the Passover of the Lord Jesus, if by our communion at the altar we are filled "with every heavenly blessing and grace," then the Eucharist is also an anticipation of the heavenly glory."

The precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ was mercilessly shed at one moment in time and his flesh brutally sacrificed upon the undeserved cruelty of the cross but, the effects extend throughout all eternity.

The wonderful depths of the Eucharist contain so much more than what can be conveyed in mere words.

Peace and grace from our Lord Jesus Christ to all who read these words.

reply to post by ShakaDoodle


Thank you so much ShakaDoodle,

I don't hear comments like yours very often at ATS. If people would watch
the video in the OP and read the quotes about the Eucharist you shared.

Something so important, vital, if you disbelieve, doubt the Real Presence,
you gotta change. Pray about it, ask Our Lord in prayer if the Holy Eucharist
is true. It's prophesied in Daniel and Jesus repeats in current prophecy,

"the anti-Christ will abolish the Eucharist." I think the biggest hint for our times
the Eucharist is true!

Believe. Another quote, notice when St. Ignatius of Antioch lived. Ignatius
35 - 107, was third Bishop of Antioch. He was the first to use the word
Catholic.

"I no longer take pleasure in perishable food or in the delights of this world. I want only God's bread, which is the Flesh of Jesus Christ, formed of the seed of David, and for drink I crave His Blood which is love that cannot perish."

"Be careful, therefore, to take part only in the one Eucharist; for there is only one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup to unite us with His Blood."

"I am God's wheat and shall be ground by their teeth so that I may become Christ's pure bread."

- from the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop and Martyr

reply to post by colbe


this is not a mystery. It is evidence of vampires. Sacrificing people and eating them. Urgh... and omg they still honor the sacrificial rituals with the holy communion to this day.

the belief that you live forever if you eat the flesh or drink the blood of another? How is that a mystery?