ATS and OWS: What the heck, ATS?

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posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer

These nuts shouldn't be so quick to call for violence. Now isn't the time to pick up a gun.


I agree some individuals call for violence all too often but...

Can we be logically consistent here at least?

You characterized this subset of society as liberal hippies or whatever you want to call them (fill in the blank).
Last I checked that's the last group to 'pick up a gun', since that group is the same group as the gun-grabbers isn't it?

I mean if we are going to pigeonhole an entire group of millions of people into a simple one-line belief, let's at least make it reasonable and consistent with the other one-line assumptions we place upon the same group.

OWS has been hijacked and while the original meat might have been liberal hippies you now have the Nazis and union thugs mixed in. The youtubes of guns at OWS, real or toys, loaded or not, concealed or open carry are an excuse waiting for a match. Provocateurs could very well light that match.



+2 more 
posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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A clearer picture on how protesting,the OWS and the Tea Party represent for many.




posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade
 


Thanks for the song lyrics and vid.
I am one of those Grandma's!



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by relpobre000
reply to post by CaDreamer
 


Did someone come to your home, put a gun to your head, and make you take out a student loan? Did your high school guidance counselor use threats or extortion to force you to attend college?

My guess is no. No one forced you to do anything. Equal opportunity ≠ Equal outcome.





posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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I love the use of the word "entitlement" when people discuss the Occupy Movement.
I use the word too, except when I use it, it's in reference to those who feel so entitled to wealth and power that they wage wars for gold and oil at the expense of both soldiers and civilians, they poison our minds with unnecessary drugs and other stimulants to keep us docile and quiet. They print money that is essentially worthless to pay us, then steal its value further with fees and interest, insurance drops and bailouts, they then buy politicians who will ensure that they maintain the power to do this, and then blame and tax us when their plans fall apart. If that's not entitlement, I don't know what is. These people, these 1% have lived off our sweat and blood for long enough. The time has come to institute "the 100%".



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer

OWS has been hijacked and while the original meat might have been liberal hippies you now have the Nazis and union thugs mixed in. The youtubes of guns at OWS, real or toys, loaded or not, concealed or open carry are an excuse waiting for a match. Provocateurs could very well light that match.


So no matter what movement forms, all that has to happen is the nazis and unions to get involved and that will discredit the entire movement?

Wow this is really easy to stop any potential possible protest that will ever happen.

I personally do find it hard to paint everyone with the same brush. I have trouble successfully over-generalizing a million people into the views of a few select people.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
I love the use of the word "entitlement" when people discuss the Occupy Movement.
I use the word too, except when I use it, it's in reference to those who feel so entitled to wealth and power that they wage wars for gold and oil at the expense of both soldiers and civilians, they poison our minds with unnecessary drugs and other stimulants to keep us docile and quiet. They print money that is essentially worthless to pay us, then steal its value further with fees and interest, insurance drops and bailouts, they then buy politicians who will ensure that they maintain the power to do this, and then blame and tax us when their plans fall apart. If that's not entitlement, I don't know what is. These people, these 1% have lived off our sweat and blood for long enough. The time has come to institute "the 100%".




Yes and I agree.

One interesting point of difference between the over-generalized cliche "hippies", and the elite criminals in charge is this:

1) The elite criminals take what they want by brutal force, and will hurt anyone in their way to get it.
2) The 'hippies' at least are nice enough to ask for things without resorting to putting a gun to my head.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Criminals he says overlooking their own?

Hmmm.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


No I don't fully agree with everybody in the OWS protests, but I do sympathize and agree with them on many points. What's interesting, we have plenty of members pointing to some of protests in order to brush the rest of the folks in the protests. Meanwhile, at the tea parties, no no no no, we couldn't link the republican establishment sympathizers to the overall tea parties, the glenn Beck supporters, because we were reminded, non stop, that the tea parties consisted of individuals.

You want to receive respect for the tea parties, meanwhile you slander the OWSers? I don't think it works that way.

As for those complaining about how the protestors oppose all freedoms in the market, well it really depends on your own personal definition. To OWSers, capitalism represents this ideal of the unregulated market, or a market and tax system that favours the wealthy. I'm pritty sure if you went to many of these OWSers and asked them whether they all support a totally controlled and communist market, the majority would outright oppose. Folks tend to have a habit of defining capitalism to their own standards and definitions. One member posted a picture of the OWSers with corporate products, well I don't recall the OWS being a movement overall against the existence of the private businesses, I mean who opposes this? Really? Even in communist China, private businesses exist. It's about your own perceptions and personal definitions in the end.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Sadly, the only thing that matters is what TPTB tells the MSM to report to the masses and then tells the Governments what their response will be. Our opinions don't really matter as long as the Governments are big, bloated and answer to TPRB.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Part of the problem with OWS, especially as a kind of modern throwback to the 60's anti war movement, is the Leftist radical anarchist connection. While many sincere souls were caught up in the revolutionary movement of the anti war spirit about Viet Nam, there were communist agitators directly involved in stirring up anti war protests. This is a sad fact, that it did not start spontaneously, but with leftist agitators who wanted to undermine the effort to combat communism.
Personally, for me, by 1977, I had found the Theosophical Society and the School of Metaphysics. My path turned sincerely spiritual and metaphysical, but in an unconventional way. An individual I encountered had worked for the UN and knew of it's anti-American One World agenda. Since then, I have been fighting communism, socialism, and the NWO. By 1980's I was reading Antony Sutton. The communists may have changed their name, but the goal is still the same.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
A clearer picture on how protesting,the OWS and the Tea Party represent for many.



That's not an accurate picture imho.

The Tea Party side is bias and ignores it's weaknesses /faults while the OWS side is focused on all of it's weaknesses and faults.

Remember, Sarah Palin became the defacto TP leader, and only racists hang out with Tea Partiers? It was just a movement by people who hated the fact Obama was black after all wasn't it?

Look I don't think that at all, but that's what the media said about the Tea Party.

This graphic illustrates exactly what the MSM says about Occupy, but skillfully ignores all of the misrepresentation the media presented about the Tea Party.

So forgive me for calling such propaganda what it is, propaganda.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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WalkingFox,

Thanks for the post. This thread is full of the richest member content I have seen in while. I tried to ignore this Occupy thread like I have the rest, but I just couldn't.

I have been in flux over the whole thing. I am a pretty good example of the type of person that you have pointed out in your OP. My initial reaction to the whole thing was, to be honest, one of derision and scorn. Not to make excuses for my fence sitting but...

It all kind of turned a corner for me last week or so. I watched Joe Rogan's video. He and I are the same age and after listening to his vid and rap I felt like we were coming from the same place pretty much. Our generation has seen a lot of very disappointing false alarms and humiliating cluster-#s of demonstrations. I hope you will find it in your hearts to forgive us.

Caution, Language:


Then I watched the Noam Chomsky thing where he spoke at the Zinn memorial. I hope you all caught that; it is pretty significant historically. My initial reaction was that Chomsky was a tired old guy and I was surprised that the world's leading linguist could be so ambiguous. But the fact is that Chomsky is old and tired; tired of repeating the same common sense instructions and practical admonishments to what must seem to him, at his age, to be the same group of kids over and over. So God bless Noam, anyhow.

Caution, Old Tired Linguist!


And then there was the Soldier in the street screaming at the police. After I digested that I have to say that, as a vet, those are things that I have always wanted to scream at the police, myself.

So all of this has given me pause. Because the fact of the matter is I don't know what the hell is going to happen here. And more and more it is looking like it might be what we have been waiting for in terms of change in the world.

And the fact is we don't know where this can all go and where it can take us now that we have this symbiotic relationship with our communication devices. We just don't know how this could make things different. But it is obvious that it is going to.

Maybe this is exactly what it is supposed to look like in terms of organization: the whole thing being so diffuse and apparently leaderless. We don't know until we engage with it. Maybe part of the trick is that we just go to where it is taking us and allow the technology to help us find a new way of doing this.

Also, I am trying to pay attention to what young smart folks have to say about this because I am sure that there is information that is having trouble making it through the calcifications. It helps, and lends necessary perspective.

So , I agree with you, Fox. Why are folks acting like this? I don't know. But I have recognized it in myself and I am trying to figure it out. Meanwhile, my attitude has changed about what Occupy seems to be about and I am going to be looking for ways to lend my support. You're right, we have been asking for this and here it seems to be.

Thanks for your post. It has been great reading the replies.

edit on 5-11-2011 by Frater210 because: vids



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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I am just glad we got this all straightened out.

So just to recap the facts here let me reiterate them for posterity:
Any protest that ever happens is either 1 of 2 things -

Racists.
Or
Communists.

Thank you, thank you.
I concede any prior position I had in the face of this compelling fact which has been proven a zillion times.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


I dont think its propaganda per say,I see what Occupy is actually SAYING that represents that picture true to its word.

Tax those rich cats into oblivion......that IS what OWS is saying right? Eat the rich? Right? Ive heard it with my own EARS.

I think Im taxed enough! Thats a clearer message,representing the people who pay taxes,without pointing the finger at anyone but the government taxing me,or you.

Do you believe people should keep what they earn? I do.



You have to look at the responses and think,is this the overall rhetoric that's being said ?

I have seen it for my own eyes,and have to say yes, unfortunately. My principles and my convictions say I shouldn't support something I see so fundamentally flawed. That is probably why those on ATS,and the true 99% of America isn't buying into this "movement".



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by modified device
 

it's because those who know the least obey the best, that make up a considerable mass of our global community.

they are the 99%.

0.5% is the elite, the other 0.5% is those with knowledge and education but wants to read both sides to a coin, the elite call us the terrorist, so it's not the 1%. it's not the 99% protesting, it's the 0.5% that isnt the elite.
edit on 5-11-2011 by technologicalsingularity because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-11-2011 by technologicalsingularity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 

This picture needs an upwards pointing arrow... or you are toast... I mean we are... all of us are toast.

Divided and conquered.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


There is that victim card again.

There are more posts on ATS supporting than against OWS.
It seems, now, that there are more posts whining about criticism of OWS than posts opposing OWS.

OWS has articulated absolutely nothing. Many are hoping it will; but opposing greed is not a movement which is going anywhere.

Not only is there no "outed" leadership; but it seems apparent that the silent and hidden leaders are expecting the crowds to beg for them to step up.

The media has been off of center for as long as I can remember, and I do not know how much is agenda and how much is simply an assumption by many that whatever their own view is, MUST be the center. I noted this listening to a Political Science grad students at a liberal institution carrying on about how offensive FOX is to them-- and how it should be sued out of existence.

When I asked if that were not censorship, many responded that the news media was sacred, and could not show bias. I then asked if the conservatives had not been saying the same for decades. These were smart, bright, students. Not one could admit that any media which was not in agreement with their own ideology could legitimately exist.

I see the same thing at work here. No one supports greed except the greedy. The hard working conservatives fear the greedy liberal as much as the greedy conservative-- and fears more that the greedy liberal will be acceptable to the liberals-- at the expense of simply hard-working conservatives.

So we want to legislate against greed, but not have class warfare? That poses a problem for liberals and conservatives. While the culture in general identifies greed with conservatives, the liberals are quick to point out that they can lay claim to the intellectual elite as well as the business giants who create the most jobs. It just is not called "greed" when they are rich and in power.

Meanwhile the culture generally portray liberals as tolerant and giving, while the conservatives are quick to point out they they tend to give more and more often to humanitarian causes and human need rater than ecology-based causes.

Then we have maxims such as "Conservatives tend to love the individual but hate the group; and liberals tend to love the groups but hate the individual," and "Conservatives are more influenced by reason and liberals are more influenced by emotion."

The problem is that neither side is willing to embrace the nobility of the other-- and neither side listens to the objections of the other-- instead, seeking to silence by censorship, demonization, name calling, and broad brush stereotyping.

My point is that people get to disagree, and instead of whining that an opponent has a say in a discussion, it used to be that one engaged the opponent with facts, ideas, and credible speculation-- with respect. We are so far from that now-- so polarized-- I cannot even imagine it happening again.



edit on 5-11-2011 by Frira because: last paragraph was a mess!



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by Frater210
 


Noam Chomsky is a leftist anarchist socialist, so you just outed yourself as one. Thanks



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


I have to laugh, because growing up Theosophy was presented to me as a dangerously socialist radical cult bent on destroying Christianity. They have secret rituals involving despicable child sacrifices, and are devil worshippers, with a secret agenda of world domination, doncha know?

I guess it all depends upon your point of view.

For the record, I didn't believe it than and don't now, but I find it highly amusing that you are parroting against the OWS the very same tripe that was leveled against your beliefs.





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