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Why do people believe that Catholicism is the Anti-Christ?

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posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:06 AM
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here is a thought, maybe it is the individual christian religions that have sprung off of Catholicism. I mean doesn't it say something about a horn breaking off the bigger horn and becoming the anti-christ in the bible, in revelations? Why isn't the bigger horn Catholicism and the horn that breaks away, why isn't that such religions, maybe not protestant, but the even looser christian religions?




posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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Oh I don't know, maybe its due to the wealth it has amassed, the countless deaths it has caused and the ignorance it has furthered during its history.

I wouldn't say its the anti-christ, but its definitely a typical flawed, human institution with a worse history than most nations. Its probably the oldest cult on the planet and a very scary one at that.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 01:43 AM
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Why do people believe that Catholicism is the Anti-Christ?


Because they want to believe in something.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 03:14 AM
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What you are finding is that many of the original Protestant religions believe that the station of the Pope is that of the little horn of Daniel. The Roman Catholic Church is viewed as the first beast with the thirteen horns. This is known as a Historic view on prophesy, there is also a Preteristic, and a futuristic view (the most common nowadays).

In the historic view, the end of the world begins after the fall of Israel around 70AD, and continues on until the return of Christ. Martin Luther was one of the first proponents of this belief, and Lutherans today are supposed to follow it, they however believe that it is the station, and not any specific Pope in general. The reason that the little horn is ascribed to the pope is because he comes up among the original 13 horns and roots out three, this is the original 13 sects that made up the roman empire, of which 3 where hunted into extinction. He oversaw the torture and burning of heretics, and considers his opinions to be without error, just to name a few of the similarities between this office and the little horn. Rather then type a book here, I will leave you with a quote from a page that explains this well, and a link to the site it came from, you can research it further there if you wish.

www.endtimeinsights.com...



Chapter 9 of Steve Wohlberg's Book: The Antichrist Chronicles
What did the major Protestant Reformers teach about the Antichrist? Whether you agree with them
or not, it is important to realize what they actually taught. The following quotations are not intented to foster any personal ill will toward any human being, for this would be contrary to teaching of Jesus Christ (John 13:34, 35), but rather to simply present what some of the most influential Christian leaders who have ever lived actually believed about "the little horn" (Daniel 7:8), "the beast" (Revelation 13:1), and "the man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) - about the Antichrist.

Martin Luther (1483-1546) (Lutheran): "Luther ... proved, by the revelations of Daniel and St. John, by the epistles of St. Paul, St. Peter, and St. Jude, that the reign of Antichrist, predicted and described in the Bible, was the Papacy ... And all the people did say, Amen! A holy terror siezed their souls. It was Antichrist whom they beheld seated on the pontifical throne. This new idea, which derived greater strength from the prophetic descriptions launched forth by Luther into the midst of his contemporaries, inflicted the most terrible blow on Rome." Taken from J. H. Merle D'aubigne's History of the Reformation of the Sixteen Century, book vi, chapter xii, p. 215.

Based on prophetic studies, Martin Luther finally declared, "We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520). Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, by LeRoy Froom. Vol. 2., pg. 121.

John Calvin (1509-1564) (Presbyterian): "Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from Institutes of the Christian Religion, by John Calvin.

John Knox (1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian): John Knox sought to counteract "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church." As with Luther, he finally concluded that the Papacy was "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks."
The Zurich Letters, by John Knox, pg. 199.

Thomas Cranmer (1489-1556) (Anglican): "Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Works by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.

Roger Williams (1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America): Pastor Williams spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.

The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647): "There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition that exalteth himself in the church against Christ and all that is called God." Taken from Philip Schaff's, The Creeds of Christendom, With a History and Critical Notes, III, p. 658, 659, ch. 25, sec. 6.

Cotton Mather (1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian): "The oracles of God foretold the
rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church: and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from The Fall of Babylon by Cotton Mather in Froom's book, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 3, pg. 113.

John Wesley (1703-1791) (Methodist): Speaking of the Papacy, John Wesley wrote, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms, by John Wesley, pg. 110.

A Great Cloud of Witnesses: "Wycliffe, Tyndale, Luther, Calvin, Cranmer; in the seventeenth century, Bunyan, the translators of the King James Bible and the men who published the Westminster and Baptist confessions of Faith; Sir Isaac Newton, Wesley, Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards; and more recently Spurgeon, Bishop J.C. Ryle and Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones; these men among countless others, all saw the office of the Papacy as the antichrist." Taken from All Roads Lead to Rome, by Michael de Semlyen. Dorchestor House Publications, p. 205. 1991.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 05:49 AM
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Hi New.

I’m a Christian that can understand how someone would think the Catholic Church is a form of the anti-Christ. Jesus walked the earth saying stop being materialistic, stop judging each other, stop worshiping false idols and love the ONE true god. He was killed turned into a false idol and used as an instrument of judgment and persecution the world-round. Using the son to kill the father blaa blaa blaa…

I don’t think the Catholic Church is the anti-Christ though. I personally believe Revelations is just something to keep the nutballs busy.

I believe same #, different millennia. The Catholic Church or the Jews two thousand years prior are no different then the Pharaoh in Egypt in the time of Moses. The symbols and words on the “collection plate” may change, but the hand holding it never does.

Just tools of an oppressive world.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 08:58 PM
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I can see why some would believe that the Catholic church would have anti-christ ties. With their idolotry, praying to Saints, and the whole Mary thing, it's not that hard to see the correlation.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Weller
I wouldn't say its the anti-christ, but its definitely a typical flawed, human institution with a worse history than most nations. Its probably the oldest cult on the planet and a very scary one at that.


I would just like to point out that this is a classic mis-use of the word 'cult'. BY definition, a 'cult' must be a smalller organization that breaks away or is in opposition to the established religion. A worldwide, millenia-old religion cannot be a cult. Christianity was a cult when it started, but so was almost every other religion.

I'm not saying your opinion otherwise is incorrect. I just don't like people using words incorrectly to further their own agenda.



posted on Sep, 6 2004 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by Weller
I wouldn't say its the anti-christ, but its definitely a typical flawed, human institution with a worse history than most nations. Its probably the oldest cult on the planet and a very scary one at that.


I would just like to point out that this is a classic mis-use of the word 'cult'. BY definition, a 'cult' must be a smalller organization that breaks away or is in opposition to the established religion. A worldwide, millenia-old religion cannot be a cult. Christianity was a cult when it started, but so was almost every other religion.

I'm not saying your opinion otherwise is incorrect. I just don't like people using words incorrectly to further their own agenda.


Your right, I used the word 'cult' rather flippantly. I see a lot of mild mind control in the practices of many religions although its use isn't applied the same way a smaller belief system would be.

Thanks for the correction.



posted on Sep, 7 2004 @ 01:45 AM
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what i am really asking is this... What if the anti-christ was actually the protestants, or other groups that broke off of Catholicism. Like maybe Catholicism is the first false prophet that sets up the stage for the Anti-Christ



posted on Sep, 9 2004 @ 10:26 PM
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Is it possible that there could be protestant anti-Christ’s, well yes why not. According to Paul there are many Anti-Christ’s. I think that again the problem is in the terminology; there can be many anti-Christ’s but only one little horn of Daniel. Is the little horn an anti-Christ, most defiantly, but not all anti-Christ’s can be the little horn. There is no one in protestant history I can think of that fits the description of this person in the bible. But there are many with an Anti-Christ spirit.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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the Catholic Chuch has done some many bad things and has made millions suffer in misery over the centuries. It is a sinful church and is a perfect example why their shouldn't be organised religion.

thanks,
drfunk



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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doesnt matter what church u are in today....ALL CHURCHS ARE IN APOSTACY...before the coming of the lawlessone. thats in the bible.

theres just as much FALSEHOOD in non Catholic churchs.

christians seem to think that the falling away will be in the world...but ask yourself what does the world have to fall away from?!?! they dont believe the truth flat out!! many many christian are waiting for some new age stuff to happen..but the battlelines are not clean and drawn like some 17th century noble war.truth is the enemy is IN each of us. its a battle against our dark side of our nature.only God can win that war for us within our hearts.it is very very sad what is happening now...the very corner of the faith of Christianity..that you must be BORN AGAIN..is getting a bad name from the multitude of churchs who sow iniquity into the world in the name of the only true form of salvation. when it comes on the world stage it will not be some alternative hippie trippy eastern faith......it will be WITHIN and COME FROM the churchs.

ask yourself.....what is a FALSE PROPHET?? a prophet is someone who is pretending to be from God right?? why do so many chrisians then believe that the deception will be from some other belief?? wont it be from the people who claim to be from God?? Take a look at the sterotype American teleevaglist..thats the model of a false prophet...funny coincidence that they all seem to come from America??

Rome Washington ??? Take your pick!

[edit on 10-9-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by drfunk
the Catholic Chuch has done some many bad things and has made millions suffer in misery over the centuries. It is a sinful church and is a perfect example why their shouldn't be organised religion.

thanks,
drfunk

I am Catholic and you are correct. The history of the church can be checkered. The inquisitions (for example) where a horrible act. But remember between 1600's and late 1800's the Catholic church was starting to dwindle. The Catholic church became accepted again after that and in the sixtys there was a reformation, some call it Vatican 2. Now as for orginized religion you have to study the history of christainity to understand how things came to be.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 10:41 PM
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The Catholics started out with the best of intentions until money and greed corrupted the church.
The monks long ago used to abstain from the material possessions of the world until the rich started paying them to pray for them.
That's how the Catholics started becomeing rich and powerful during the middle ages. The rich thought they could pay their way into heaven.
I'm not judgeing whether the Catholic church is the anti-christ or not. I don't know.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by elaine
The Catholics started out with the best of intentions until money and greed corrupted the church.
The monks long ago used to abstain from the material possessions of the world until the rich started paying them to pray for them.
That's how the Catholics started becomeing rich and powerful during the middle ages. The rich thought they could pay their way into heaven.
I'm not judgeing whether the Catholic church is the anti-christ or not. I don't know.

Some of this is true. Not all Catholics back then where corrupt but the ones that where gave the church a bad name. This is one of the reasons why Martin Luther left the church. Now the whole "catholic church anti christ" is a joke. I heard this and beleived this at one time when I coverted to a "bible christian". I realized that some protestant churches are worst than the catholic church. Today the Catholic church gives alot of money to charities through out the world. When I went to a "bible christain" chruch the money I gave went to the minister you drove a BMW and lived in a million dollar home.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by Esoterica
I would just like to point out that this is a classic mis-use of the word 'cult'. BY definition, a 'cult' must be a smalller organization that breaks away or is in opposition to the established religion. A worldwide, millenia-old religion cannot be a cult. Christianity was a cult when it started, but so was almost every other religion.


Actually the defintion of "Cult" is here: www.hyperdictionary.com...

By true defintion any groups with religious beliefs and rituals can be defined as a cult. Its not necessarily a bad thing though.

PS- I also don't like people to misuse words to further their agendas like yourself
Just kidding...



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 10:55 PM
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I know what you mean by some of the other branches of the church being just as bad. There's one church in my town that has a nun in residence at it's parish house. She drives a jaguar!
It's an odd sight seeing a nun in that type of car. I forget what denomination the church is though. Maybe Methodist? I dunno.



posted on Sep, 10 2004 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by pbrez Some of this is true. Not all Catholics back then where corrupt but the ones that where gave the church a bad name. This is one of the reasons why Martin Luther left the church. Now the whole "catholic church anti christ" is a joke. I heard this and beleived this at one time when I coverted to a "bible christian". I realized that some protestant churches are worst than the catholic church. Today the Catholic church gives alot of money to charities through out the world. When I went to a "bible christain" chruch the money I gave went to the minister you drove a BMW and lived in a million dollar home.


If I get what you are saying correctly, then it’s only a matter of the way that a Church entity does works in the world today that counts.

I disagree with this hole-heartedly, there are going to be good and bad people in every Church denomination, and bad things are going to occur in any man run organization. The basis, however; for what you believe to be the true and correct Church to follow should be found by holding each Churches beliefs up to the word of God. When a Church does things that go blatantly against the Word, then it is not an acceptable Church for a Christian to follow, regardless of what types of good works they perform.


Elaine, to my knowledge, Nuns only belong to the Catholic faith. I could be wrong, but I have never heard of a Methodist Nun…


[edit on 9/10/2004 by defcon5]



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 12:06 AM
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Now I remember...it's Episcopalian. Is that a branch from the Catholic church?



posted on Sep, 11 2004 @ 12:10 AM
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What did Jesus say to Peter (The First Pope), "Thou art rock, and upon this rock I will build my church". The Popes can be traced in lineage in apostolic succession back through the ages to St. Peter

St. Peter (32-67)

St. Linus (67-76)

St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)

St. Clement I (88-97)

St. Evaristus (97-105)

St. Alexander I (105-115)

St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I

St. Telesphorus (125-136)

St. Hyginus (136-140)

St. Pius I (140-155)

St. Anicetus (155-166)

St. Soter (166-175)

St. Eleutherius (175-189)

St. Victor I (189-199)

St. Zephyrinus (199-217)

St. Callistus I (217-22)

St. Urban I (222-30)

St. Pontain (230-35)

St. Anterus (235-36)

St. Fabian (236-50)

St. Cornelius (251-53)

St. Lucius I (253-54)

St. Stephen I (254-257)

St. Sixtus II (257-258)

St. Dionysius (260-268)

St. Felix I (269-274)

St. Eutychian (275-283)

St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius

St. Marcellinus (296-304)

St. Marcellus I (308-309)

St. Eusebius (309 or 310)

St. Miltiades (311-14)

St. Sylvester I (314-35)

St. Marcus (336)

St. Julius I (337-52)

Liberius (352-66)

St. Damasus I (366-83)

St. Siricius (384-99)

St. Anastasius I (399-401)

St. Innocent I (401-17)

St. Zosimus (417-18)

St. Boniface I (418-22)

St. Celestine I (422-32)

St. Sixtus III (432-40)

St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)

St. Hilarius (461-68)

St. Simplicius (468-83)

St. Felix III (II) (483-92)

St. Gelasius I (492-96)

Anastasius II (496-98)

St. Symmachus (498-514)

St. Hormisdas (514-23)

St. John I (523-26)

St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)

Boniface II (530-32)

John II (533-35)

St. Agapetus I (535-36) -- also called Agapitus I

St. Silverius (536-37)

Vigilius (537-55)

Pelagius I (556-61)

John III (561-74)

Benedict I (575-79)

Pelagius II (579-90)

St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)

Sabinian (604-606)

Boniface III (607)

St. Boniface IV (608-15)

St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)

Boniface V (619-25)

Honorius I (625-38)

Severinus (640)

John IV (640-42)

Theodore I (642-49)

St. Martin I (649-55)

St. Eugene I (655-57)

St. Vitalian (657-72)

Adeodatus (II) (672-76)

Donus (676-78)

St. Agatho (678-81)

St. Leo II (682-83)

St. Benedict II (684-85)

John V (685-86)

Conon (686-87)

St. Sergius I (687-701)

John VI (701-05)

John VII (705-07)

Sisinnius (708)

Constantine (708-15)

St. Gregory II (715-31)

St. Gregory III (731-41)

St. Zachary (741-52)

Stephen II (752)

Stephen III (752-57)

St. Paul I (757-67)

Stephen IV (767-72)

Adrian I (772-95)

St. Leo III (795-816)

Stephen V (816-17)

St. Paschal I (817-24)

Eugene II (824-27)

Valentine (827)

Gregory IV (827-44)

Sergius II (844-47)

St. Leo IV (847-55)

Benedict III (855-58)

St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)

Adrian II (867-72)

John VIII (872-82)

Marinus I (882-84)

St. Adrian III (884-85)

Stephen VI (885-91)

Formosus (891-96)

Boniface VI (896)

Stephen VII (896-97)

Romanus (897)

Theodore II (897)

John IX (898-900)

Benedict IV (900-03)

Leo V (903)

Sergius III (904-11)

Anastasius III (911-13)

Lando (913-14)

John X (914-28)

Leo VI (928)

Stephen VIII (929-31)

John XI (931-35)

Leo VII (936-39)

Stephen IX (939-42)

Marinus II (942-46)

Agapetus II (946-55)

John XII (955-63)

Leo VIII (963-64)

Benedict V (964)

John XIII (965-72)

Benedict VI (973-74)

Benedict VII (974-83)

John XIV (983-84)

John XV (985-96)

Gregory V (996-99)

Sylvester II (999-1003)

John XVII (1003)

John XVIII (1003-09)

Sergius IV (1009-12)

Benedict VIII (1012-24)

John XIX (1024-32)

Benedict IX (1032-45)

Sylvester III (1045)

Benedict IX (1045)

Gregory VI (1045-46)

Clement II (1046-47)

Benedict IX (1047-48)

Damasus II (1048)

St. Leo IX (1049-54)

Victor II (1055-57)

Stephen X (1057-58)

Nicholas II (1058-61)

Alexander II (1061-73)

St. Gregory VII (1073-85)

Blessed Victor III (1086-87)

Blessed Urban II (1088-99)

Paschal II (1099-1118)

Gelasius II (1118-19)

Callistus II (1119-24)

Honorius II (1124-30)

Innocent II (1130-43)

Celestine II (1143-44)

Lucius II (1144-45)

Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)

Anastasius IV (1153-54)

Adrian IV (1154-59)

Alexander III (1159-81)

Lucius III (1181-85)

Urban III (1185-87)

Gregory VIII (1187)

Clement III (1187-91)

Celestine III (1191-98)

Innocent III (1198-1216)

Honorius III (1216-27)

Gregory IX (1227-41)

Celestine IV (1241)

Innocent IV (1243-54)

Alexander IV (1254-61)

Urban IV (1261-64)

Clement IV (1265-68)

Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)

Blessed Innocent V (1276)

Adrian V (1276)

John XXI (1276-77)

Nicholas III (1277-80)

Martin IV (1281-85)

Honorius IV (1285-87)

Nicholas IV (1288-92)

St. Celestine V (1294)

Boniface VIII (1294-1303)

Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)

Clement V (1305-14)

John XXII (1316-34)

Benedict XII (1334-42)

Clement VI (1342-52)

Innocent VI (1352-62)

Blessed Urban V (1362-70)

Gregory XI (1370-78)

Urban VI (1378-89)

Boniface IX (1389-1404)

Innocent VII (1404-06)

Gregory XII (1406-15)

Martin V (1417-31)

Eugene IV (1431-47)

Nicholas V (1447-55)

Callistus III (1455-58)

Pius II (1458-64)

Paul II (1464-71)

Sixtus IV (1471-84)

Innocent VIII (1484-92)

Alexander VI (1492-1503)

Pius III (1503)

Julius II (1503-13)

Leo X (1513-21)

Adrian VI (1522-23)

Clement VII (1523-34)

Paul III (1534-49)

Julius III (1550-55)

Marcellus II (1555)

Paul IV (1555-59)

Pius IV (1559-65)

St. Pius V (1566-72)

Gregory XIII (1572-85)

Sixtus V (1585-90)

Urban VII (1590)

Gregory XIV (1590-91)

Innocent IX (1591)

Clement VIII (1592-1605)

Leo XI (1605)

Paul V (1605-21)

Gregory XV (1621-23)

Urban VIII (1623-44)

Innocent X (1644-55)

Alexander VII (1655-67)

Clement IX (1667-69)

Clement X (1670-76)

Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)

Alexander VIII (1689-91)

Innocent XII (1691-1700)

Clement XI (1700-21)

Innocent XIII (1721-24)

Benedict XIII (1724-30)

Clement XII (1730-40)

Benedict XIV (1740-58)

Clement XIII (1758-69)

Clement XIV (1769-74)

Pius VI (1775-99)

Pius VII (1800-23)

Leo XII (1823-29)

Pius VIII (1829-30)

Gregory XVI (1831-46)

Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)

Leo XIII (1878-1903)

St. Pius X (1903-14)

Benedict XV (1914-22)

Pius XI (1922-39)

Pius XII (1939-58)

Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)

Paul VI (1963-78)

John Paul I (1978)

John Paul II (1978—)

The Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ himself.




[edit on 11-9-2004 by chief_counsellor]



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