New free e-book teaches you how to have an OOBE in 3 days..., page 5

Originally posted by The Cusp
I just don't see how this is any different than watching a zombie movie before bed, then dreaming about zombies that night. You're creating the rules beforehand, forging a new archetype through the repetition of researching. Like when you do dream of zombies, they don't offer to wash your car, they try to eat you. That's just the zombie archetype which determines what is going to happen.

This is like saying how do you know you were actually lucid, and weren't just dreaming that you were lucid. So anytime you lucid dream you are going to put that into it's own archetype. Now your lucid dream follows the rules, everything you read about it. All this that you do puts more rules on your experience, it might give you more confidence but it ultimately will limit you severely if you think it's all just archetypes. You might have amazing dream control but something is missing. I'd sacrifice dream control in order to keep my mind open to the experiential, and spiritual side of dreaming. Which is exactly what I do, and it's exactly why there are a lot of things I can't do in dreams which people like you can. This isn't because I'm too lazy to read a book, it's because I don't want beliefs to create unnecessary archetypes and limit the possibilities.

Originally posted by The Cusp

Yes, and on the other hand, a lot of people have OBEs without seeing a silver cord. It's an irrelevant variable. Many of the top OBE gurus say you won't have a silver cord unless you think you need one. People have recorded so called OBE experiences in the days before the internet. It's also something that happens spontaneously from time to time. All the times I've felt myself leaving my body were completely random, it's not something I was actively trying to accomplish. It's a freaky experience to be sure, especially when you're not expecting it, but never did I see a silver cord.

I have had WILDS and false awakenings where I seemed to have "left my body" but it's not the same thing. That's why I say I only had one OOBE I can be sure of. And on that one, there indeed was a silver cord. Like anyone who does alot of WBTB and DEILD, I have false awakenings and stuff, but this OOBE was a hugely energetic experience, it's like you are in your spirit body - there is a ton of energy and clarity - that a lucid dream self just doesn't come close to feeling. I've never seen the silver cord in a false awakening, or WILD.

Originally posted by The Cusp

That's my argument exactly! Trying to separate AP from dreaming is adding an unnecessary layer. I'm not trying to shrink the number of conscious APers, I'm trying to grow the number of conscious dreamers.

AP is actually life changing though. In other words it's a catalyst for positive change in our world. Lucid dreaming sadly, is not. As much as I wish it was... that easy. But really all I see is arrogance the more and more I meet people who have gotten good at lucid dreaming. I'm going to look at an Astral Projection forum, just to gauge the level of arrogance - I bet it's much less. I've always identified myself as a Lucid Dreamer.

Originally posted by The Cusp

I don't mean to be close minded, but I have to fight against the same kind of misinformation in field of lucid dreaming. The main one being that dream control is accomplished through believing and expectations, which doesn't account for how often things people attempt while lucid fail. They didn't believe hard enough? If they didn't believe they could do something, why would they try it in the first place? What determines success in dream control is using the right archetypes, and how well defined those archetypes are.

Say something was to sever your silver cord during one of your OBEs. Would you die? Become separated from your body forever? No. I guarantee you would wake up, because the pre-programming of you research beforehand doesn't cover that situation. Just like when people dream of dying, they wake up. Your dream calls upon a half formed archetype, and like a computer program that calls a missing subroutine, it's going to cause an error and a crash, or in this case, cause you to wake up.

And believe me, I am very tempted to start entering people's dreams and slashing their silver cords.

I couldn't agree more about the belief thing. There's nothing worse than someone thinking they are failing because they don't believe hard enough. Though I think belief can certainly effect the way archetypes effect the dream (often in a harmless way). I think your advice is good advice and it's a side of dreaming that should be included with all the other theories (my theory is that keeping a dream journal is the best advice). I think that if you try to cut a true silver cord, it is going to electrocute you for lack of a better word.