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It all ends Monday [UPDATED]

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posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Something for people to chew on for a while, When Corzine left Goldman Sach to join the MF he make promises to turn the MF into a mini Goldman sach, so if he ran the MF like Goldman Sach is been run we are in deep crap.



That's why everyone should be scared to death that the new President for the European Central Bank that started on November 1st is also a former Vice Chairman and Managing Director for Goldman Sachs!!




posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Dance4Life
 


Thanks for the information, hopefully they will fix whatever mistakes they posted in the site.

Still is an ongoing saga going up with the EU and something to keep an eye on.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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I think the real question being raised is, "what is fraud"

and also a followup question "What is rape?"

This court case might explain how truly screwed up things are, it's said that "Truth is stranger than fiction" and well, I suppose that's a true statement.



www.lawlink.com...

[...]

In relevant part the factual background may be summarized as follows. Ms. R., the rape victim, was employed as a clerk at the Holiday Inn in South San Francisco when, on March 30, 1984, at about 8:45 a.m., she received a telephone call from a person who identified himself as "Dr. Stevens" and said that he worked at Peninsula Hospital.

"Dr. Stevens" told Ms. R. that he had the results of her blood test and that she had contracted a dangerous, highly infectious and perhaps fatal disease; that she could be sued as a result; that the disease came from using public toilets; and that she would have to tell him the identity of all her friends who would then have to be contacted in the interest of controlling the spread of the disease.

"Dr. Stevens" further explained that there were only two ways to treat the disease. The first was a painful surgical procedure--graphically described--costing $9,000, and requiring her uninsured hospitalization for six weeks. A second alternative, "Dr. Stevens" explained, was to have sexual intercourse with an anonymous donor who had been injected with a serum which would cure the disease. The latter, nonsurgical procedure would only cost $4,500. When the victim replied that she lacked sufficient funds the "doctor" suggested that $1,000 would suffice as a down payment. The victim thereupon agreed to the nonsurgical alternative and consented to intercourse with the mysterious donor, believing "it was the only choice I had."

After discussing her intentions with her work supervisor, the victim proceeded to the Hyatt Hotel in Burlingame as instructed, and contacted "Dr. [163 Cal.App.3d 1227] Stevens" by telephone. The latter became furious when he learned Ms. R. had informed her employer of the plan, and threatened to terminate his treatment, finally instructing her to inform her employer she had decided not to go through with the treatment. Ms. R. did so, then went to her bank, withdrew $1,000 and, as instructed, checked into another hotel and called "Dr. Stevens" to give him her room number.

About a half hour later the defendant "donor" arrived at her room. When Ms. R. had undressed, the "donor," petitioner, after urging her to relax, had sexual intercourse with her.

At the time of penetration, it was Ms. R.'s belief that she would die unless she consented to sexual intercourse with the defendant: as she testified, "My life felt threatened, and for that reason and that reason alone did I do it."

Petitioner was apprehended when the police arrived at the hotel room, having been called by Ms. R.'s supervisor. Petitioner was identified as "Dr. Stevens" at a police voice lineup by another potential victim of the same scheme.

Upon the basis of the evidence just recounted, petitioner was charged with five crimes, as follows: Count I: section 261, subdivision (2)--rape: accomplished against a person's will by means of force or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury on the person or another. Count II: section 261, subdivision (4)--rape "[w]here a person is at the time unconscious of the nature of the act, and this is known to the accused." Count III: section 266--procuring a female to have illicit carnal connection with a man "by any false pretenses, false representation, or other fraudulent means, ..." Count IV: section 664/487--attempted grand theft. Count V: section 459--burglary (entry into the hotel room with intent to commit theft).

[...]

The decision is useful to this analysis, however, because it exactly illustrates certain traditional rules in the area of our inquiry. Thus, as a leading authority has written, "if deception causes a misunderstanding as to the fact itself (fraud in the factum) there is no legally-recognized consent because what happened is not that for which consent was given; whereas consent induced by fraud is as effective as any other consent, so far as direct and immediate legal consequences are concerned, if the deception relates not to the thing done but merely to some collateral matter (fraud in the inducement)." (Perkins & Boyce, Criminal Law (3d ed. 1982) ch. 9, ? 3, p. 1079.)


Now, aren't you glad we have lawyers who get paid large sums to figure out the essential questions of what is fraud and what is not? I know I will sleep well this weekend, and on into next week as well, knowing that bodies like these, spend hours and hours, figuring out the tough questions.
edit on 5-11-2011 by smallpeeps because: tags



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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THIS WHOLE TOPIC HAS IT WRONG.

Listen to the above Dance4life poster,

They are LOWERING initial deposit margin.

This is actually allowing people MORE leverage/margin at the moment, not less........no margin calls, no massive chaos on monday, just more contracts for less money. Most likely temporarily.

This is coming from the CME Twitter feed after they saw the blowback.

The simple fact is......MF Global is going bankrupt and has billions in remaining customer accounts and open positions that the customers do not wish to close yet. CME will be taking on, hundreds of millions of dollars in customer accounts over the next few days weeks.

To avoid forcing the former MF Global clients to have to close their positions or put in millions more, they are, for the time being, lowering the initial margin requirements so they can transfer their accounts!

This is the exact opposite of the initial interpretation and hence, has the exact opposite effect of this alarmist post.


REMEMBER: When a huge event does happen, just like in 9/11/01 and just like 3/11 this year, there may be some small indicators, but it sure won't be broadcast so openly.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 


Isn't that a peach
when corruption tentacles spread from the US finances to the Fed the government and then the EU.

The crocks have a hold on everything.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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What is the worst that could happen out of this?



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by Willbert
 


Now I didnt say my life was bad did I. I just said I was poor. That does not make me a sad sack.Money can't buy happiness.

I am a great cook. I mean really really good and I can make meals out of cheap ordinary foods and even canned goods. I have a nice sized yard and I am a gardener so I can grow some of the food we need.
I will maintain a chin up attitude and I am sure I will be fine.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by mrsparkles669
THIS WHOLE TOPIC HAS IT WRONG.

Listen to the above Dance4life poster,

They are LOWERING initial deposit margin.

This is actually allowing people MORE leverage/margin at the moment, not less........no margin calls, no massive chaos on monday, just more contracts for less money. Most likely temporarily.

This is coming from the CME Twitter feed after they saw the blowback.

The simple fact is......MF Global is going bankrupt and has billions in remaining customer accounts and open positions that the customers do not wish to close yet. CME will be taking on, hundreds of millions of dollars in customer accounts over the next few days weeks.

To avoid forcing the former MF Global clients to have to close their positions or put in millions more, they are, for the time being, lowering the initial margin requirements so they can transfer their accounts!

This is the exact opposite of the initial interpretation and hence, has the exact opposite effect of this alarmist post.


REMEMBER: When a huge event does happen, just like in 9/11/01 and just like 3/11 this year, there may be some small indicators, but it sure won't be broadcast so openly.


Who says they can transfer their accounts?



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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THE WORLD IS NOT ENDING MONDAY - PLEASE READ THIS CLARIFICATION ISSUED BY THE CME

CME has apologized for the confusion - it sounds like initial margins are going down - nothings going up because they want to REDUCE margin calls from the transfer of MFG customers that are being transferred..





11-400 TO: Clearing Member Firms FROM: CME Clearing DATE: November 5, 2011 RE: CME Group Clarifies Maintenance Margin Ratios Exchange to Reduce Initial Margin Ratio to 1.00 CME Group today is clarifying its notice to clearing firms regarding margins. In light of the issues customers transferring out of MF Global are facing, while still maintaining appropriate risk management protections for the market, CME Clearing is setting the "initial" margin upcharge at zero. This upcharge is normally applied to customer accounts when they are receiving a margin call. The intent and effect of these changes is to decrease the size of any margin calls resulting from the bulk transfer of MF Global customers to new clearing members, not to increase them. Yesterday, CME Group successfully transferred MF Global customer positions to a new clearing member with part, but not all, of their funds, as approved by the bankruptcy trustee and the court. By reducing the initial margin “ratio” to 1.00, we ensure that margin calls that are issued to these transferred MF Global customers will be limited to bringing their accounts into compliance with the lower, “maintenance” margin levels. Maintenance margins are set to provide appropriate risk management coverage. Initial margins are set to provide an additional buffer against future losses in the account. This is a short term accommodation to maintain market integrity and provide temporary relief to customers whose accounts have been disrupted by this event. We apologize for any confusion our initial advisory may have created.


CME Clarification
edit on 5-11-2011 by coldkidc because: Added link to pdf



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by coldkidc
 


A Link would be nice. But if thats true,than me is a very sad Panda,because i had a little hope that the Market could blow up on Monday
*sniff*

Edit: Thanks for the Link *sniff* so we have to endure more Can kicking and BS...
edit on 5-11-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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If I were one of those, I'd probably feel like Nazi prisoner transferred to "better" accommodation


They will now steal even more from them...
edit on 5-11-2011 by DangerDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by mrsparkles669


This is coming from the CME Twitter feed after they saw the blowback.

The simple fact is......MF Global is going bankrupt and has billions in remaining customer accounts and open positions that the customers do not wish to close yet. CME will be taking on, hundreds of millions of dollars in customer accounts over the next few days weeks.

To avoid forcing the former MF Global clients to have to close their positions or put in millions more, they are, for the time being, lowering the initial margin requirements so they can transfer their accounts!
.


Thanks for the clarification. If only they had just plainspeak in the first place, then there would had not been any misinterpretation, more so in these spooking bank fraudish time. Guess it does take some ass kicking to get them off their butts and explain forthrightly. Power to ATS and internet media!

Still it raises several questions though, and one of them is, what happens to 'open' postitions when MF was suspended?

The investors were not allowed to get out when the suspension was on, but the market was continuing on. Some of those trades were downright spiralling to huge losses, even with now lowered margin requirements.

So if they were to trade again, (not sure what mechanism CME could be authorised to allow such transfers) are the investors to pay up their losses to the new firm which can be substantial?

Or would it be better to NOT transfer, get out of the market then and there at the suspension level, and hope for the best of any untraded funds from the liquidators?

Deeper and deeper the hole our gambling dealers are leading us down and while most certainly hell bent profitting from it....
edit on 5-11-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Well MFG is toast..there is no disputing that, yet another big player falls to the wayside.

Like it or not the market will react to the bad news and confidence will be further undermined.

I still expect a lot of selling to occur come Monday.

If MFG can collapse why should anyone have confidence in CME ?

Cosmic..



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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Yes, I too feel if this information is current and correct, the Dynasties that have been in charge for centuries shall just change the game, and insitute a one world currency.
Do not fool yourself op in believing that Goldman Sachs, Rothschilds, Koch brothers, etc, and so forth do not have a contingency plan established years ago



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Shenon
 


Don't worry Shanon something is about to give up when the money for the EU bailout is a not show.

I don't think the OWS protesters will applaud more money printing here at home.


The fed will have to either issue bonds or crape whatever it cans from the banks that falls under their "winds"



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


I am pretty sure we may see something shaping in the markets on Monday probably directly involving the MF or whatever is left of it, but how far the shaping and shaking will be, we may just have to wait and see.

Given the volatility of the Markets lately, hell it will only be just another bull market while the real crap goes behind the scenes as usual.




posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Here is a link that explains it fairly well.

www.businessinsider.com...


... the initial margin is almost always larger than the maintenance margin(initial margin is how much collateral you have to post when you buy the contract. Maintenance margin is lower because otherwise you’d have to replenish your margin every time the contract falls in value – instead you only have to do it when you reach certain “maintenance” thresholds).

So the initial/maintenance ratios were previously greater than 1.0. They are being LOWERED to 1.0. There are two ways for this to happen, obviously: 1) Raise maintenance margin requirements or 2) lower initial margin requirements. If the CME was hiking maintenance margins across the board, it seems that they could have more accurately used the term: “maintenance/initial” ratio to describe the change.


Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

So in a market with low liquidity, they are lowering the liquidity requirements even more.

Which most likely means that investors are only going to hedge their bets even more.

When do they expect to be able to raise the initial/maintenance ratios back up to where they should be? At some point in time, they are going to have to ask people to put more money down for deposit, so the risk of system collapse only gets worse.

Its like that giant glacier breaking way from Antarctica. There is a huge crack, and it is only going to grow, until the whole system breaks away.

Chances are this is only going to speed up the inevitable.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Shenon
reply to post by coldkidc
 


A Link would be nice. But if thats true,than me is a very sad Panda,because i had a little hope that the Market could blow up on Monday
*sniff*

Edit: Thanks for the Link *sniff* so we have to endure more Can kicking and BS...
edit on 5-11-2011 by Shenon because: (no reason given)


It can still happen if customers withdraw their money.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by coldkidc
 


They obviously saw the rumours.

Either that, or they were extremely incompetent in phrasing their previous headline.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Yes. This is all B.S.

Zero Hedge is not to be trusted. You can trust me or learn the hard way, by panicing and losing money.
edit on 5-11-2011 by IndieA because: addition





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