Why I debunk the chemtrail myth

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posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by BillfromCovina
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

You can not present any picture of a contrail and claim that is a chemtrail. You have to have high humidity to have persistent contrails. You can not compare a hot dry area like Los Angeles with a cold humid place.



No, but you can compare the atmosphere 6 miles above Los Angeles - which is not hot and dry - with similar atmospheric conditons elsewhere


The conditions at ground level as I'd have thought even you would know by now have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not persistent contrails will form.

As to asking for video and photographic evidence from the 1940s - there's an obviously reason why this is not quite so readily available as such evidence form the 2000s is. I wonder though if you've worked it out yet?


Ad homs and straw men do not win arguments.




posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by UnlimitedSky
 


You only started noticing them after you read about chemtrails on the internet and started looking for them


Though obviously you get far less air traffic over South Africa (but has it increased in recent decades) so contrails will never be as prevalent as they are over, for example, Britain is overflown by some 7,000 aircraft every day. Rather a lot more than was the case in WWII, btw.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 


GGGGGRrrrr. Let me try and hold my temper!!

You are wrong and presumptious. I lived in the UK for 5 years and in Italy for 4 where there were loads of chemtrials all the time. And I hated it. I have been very close to and aware of the sky all my life.

When I came to SA, 2010, I was delighted that it was still the good old SA, chemtrail free. I live in Pretoria, close to about 7 airports.
There were nothing, no chemtrails, until about June this year. I checked every day and delighted in the beautiful virgin sky until this year May/June. (a year and a half nothing, then it started)

My eye is on the sky, always. My avatar should be evidence of that. I paint sky. Always have, always will.

So how come there was no chemtrails here until 2011, and only the past 6 months it started???

I hated chemtrials in Europe and knew about them before 2004 when I painted my avatar painting. I am way more awake than what you presume.

Also, I checked with my friends via email pictures I took in Italy before coming back. THERE WERE NOTHING. They did not know what I was talking about until they saw the photos I took and then they were very baffled because they had never seen anything like it.

Now they also hate this new phynomena in our sky.

It started recently. Believe you me.

And by the way, I saw the chemtrials in the sky first, then searched and searched and found info one the internet. Nonoe of the people I knew at the time knew anything about it.

Regards,
UnlimitedSky





edit on 5-11-2011 by UnlimitedSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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Did you perchance fly to SA from Britain? If so, you're more guilty than I in all this
Every time you fly you risk producing another 'chemtrail' (depending on atmospheric conditions)

But it'd be interesting see see some 'chemtrail' pictures from SA as it's my belief they will be nowhere near as extensive as they are over Britain. For obvious reasons.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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It's very unlikely that there were many (if any) contrails over Los Angles during WWII. There was simply no reason for planes to fly that high, unlike Europe - where there were thousands of high altitude bombers and their fighter escorts.

In addition to the lack of planes, the contrail season in LA is only half the year, and the contrail altitude is much higher than in Europe (with colder, damper, weather). The European contrails formed around 24,000 to 28,000 feet (based on the bomber ceilings), which would not have been high enough in Los Angles.

So while it's possible that contrails formed over LA, it would have been exceedingly rare.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Deducting from your OP you are very offended with the general public for noticing chemtrails. This appears to be because you take it extremely personal, since you work(ed') in aviation.

If you were a mechanic or a lawyer, would your extreme convictions still be as solid?

You are taking something personal that has nothing to do with you.

Chemtrails are evil, totally disregards human rights, and have an agenda so obscure that after many years of this disgusting practice, we still can't really phanthom WHY.

In my area they started recently. So, explain to me how planes that never EVER made lines in the sky now makes them???????

DOWN WITH CHEMTRAILS!!


No, we are just offended by intentional ignorance and fear mongering, and people who refuse to learn any new facts, because it may run counter to their deeply held faith in being sprayed.

So you noticed a lot more contrails over Europe than South Africa? And the reason for that must be spraying, and no other possible reason such as the amount of air traffic? And that you noticed trails finally over South Africa, starting in winter? When its colder...hmmmm



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Winter and spring long past. We are in summer. Also, last winter there was nothing.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
reply to post by firepilot
 


Winter and spring long past. We are in summer. Also, last winter there was nothing.



Well you did mention starting in June, which is winter down there as far as I know.

There is going to be very or no air traffic overflying South Africa going someplace else. Compare that to Europe, with thousands of flights daily going overhead. Even if not starting in the UK or Italy, there are many flights going overhead to someplace.

I can not think of anything that would be overflying South Africa. There is of course flights starting/ending in South Africa from other places, and flights within South Africa, but thats going to be very very small to the flights overhead in European Airspace.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by BillfromCovina

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by BillfromCovina
 


I do not say contrails are chemtrails Bill


I do not recall asking you for pressure data - that was Phage's argument. Mine with you was that you were unwilling to discuss photographic and video evidence from earlier times.

I am unaware of any photos of contrails over LA in WW2 - I am aware of many photos and videos from various places throughout WW2 - there are some in this thread - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Go fill your boots


So in other words you want to throw out all the science of contrails. You want to take an old picture of a contrail from WW2 in a cold humid place and say that is the same phenomenon as a chemtrail over a hot dry city today.


Do you actually think the air overhead Los Angeles up at jet altitudes, is hot and dry?



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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We have lots of planes flying over our heads here. Very few make chemtrials. Once in 2 weeks or so. One plane out many in the very very same sky at the exact same altitude. Next time I catch one, I will post a pic. It is always followed by heavy winds the next day. The last big big spraying (about 8 on one day) we had snow in Johannesburg the next day. (That is extremely rare - snow in JHB.)

I did not fly from London that year. I flew from Treviso, Italy. A much smaller airport than our 5 or 6 or 7 airports here in Gauteng. (Johannesburg and Pretoria area where all the international flights leave from.)

I politely bow out of this thread. You can not see for those that will not open their eyes.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by UnlimitedSky
We have lots of planes flying over our heads here. Very few make chemtrials. Once in 2 weeks or so. One plane out many in the very very same sky at the exact same altitude. Next time I catch one, I will post a pic. It is always followed by heavy winds the next day. The last big big spraying (about 8 on one day) we had snow in Johannesburg the next day. (That is extremely rare - snow in JHB.)

I did not fly from London that year. I flew from Treviso, Italy. A much smaller airport than our 5 or 6 or 7 airports here in Gauteng. (Johannesburg and Pretoria area where all the international flights leave from.)

I politely bow out of this thread. You can not see for those that will not open their eyes.


Exact same altitude?

More of this chemtrailer problem that they have a problem understanding that not every airplane up there is the same altitude. Nor can you tell that either. You could have a plane at 32,000 not making much of a contrail, and you could have a lot more of one at 34,000 ft, and you can not tell the difference in altitude from the ground.

And yes, I have seen a photo of two jets flying in formation, one making a contrail and one not. And guess what, that still did not mean spraying.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by UnlimitedSky
 


Unlimited Sky Isn't it AMAZING that people actually have the audacity to explain away Chemtrails Or GeoEngineered "seeding" by contrails?

I refuse to even comment on non-believer threads anymore. It's pointless.

We didn't get "sprayed" here in Lake Tahoe for over 6 months. Don't ask me why, I'm not in the loop.

Every day was like a fresh new day. REALLY Blue magnificent skyline from Reno east over the Lake towards Sacremento West... Brilliant cloud formations as storms moved over us and past us. Not "sketchy" formations.

About a month ago they started again. Zig Zag CrissCross....You name it....They're back. Not everyday either.

We have cloud seeding here in Tahoe that is irregular. Totally different elevation.
www.lakescientist.com...
Call them and ask them about the "other" Geoengineering at higher altitudes. They'll tell you the same thing they told ME..."Call us when you find out"(Lieing?Don't know)

To deny they exist isn't worth commenting on anymore.(We know what we see, Ummmm DUH)
Good luck with THAT.

Cheers!



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by niceguybob
We didn't get "sprayed" here in Lake Tahoe for over 6 months. Don't ask me why, I'm not in the loop.


Probably because it was summer.

Did you also notice that it hardly ever rained during those six months? It's the same kind of thing.

edit on 5-11-2011 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by hardamber
 


www.google.com...:en-US
fficial&client=firefox-a

there is the google results of a 10 second search... all the proof you need..

your welcome



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by niceguybob
 


Sweet sweet sugar and spice, Bob guy, you ARE nice! You brought me back to life on this thread!

I know what you mean. The reason I personally wanted to come back to SA is because there was no chemtrails at the time.
And boy oh boy! I am an excellent lady driver (guys have told me this many times) but I think I nearly crashed the car a couple a times while driving, enchanted by the most amazing REAL cloud formations. Staring up at the sky instead of keeping the eye totally on the road. It felt like I was being fed after a period of starvation!!!

In Italy the chemtrails would be sprayed in a beautiful, promising blue sky, and then the long lines will open up to a grey dull fog like substance that just made the entire day grey. No actual formation of clouds, just this grey coating hanging in the air... aaaaaaaagh!

I longed for real sky. Real clouds. And those first few months my friends thought I was ga-ga cause I would actually rave on about the clouds that are so very beautiful.

Now I see much less actual cloud formation. I also strongly suspect they actually spray us very early in the morning, more regularly, because at about 6 in the morning there are often 'opened up' lines across a broad area. It does not however, make the sky grey like in Italy. I saw the same thing in India in 2009. They sprayed their long lines, but it did not make the day grey. It is like there are different reactions, or different sprays.

hey! you are right! there is no point in running in a hamster wheel! Some just don't want to get it. Maybe one day the sky will get so P'ed off with them that it will fall down and they will wear blue caps!

Never mind.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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as the saying goes nothing new under the sun no pun intended if chemtrails dont exist they will and if they do they will happen again. there is international law against weather weapons so obviously thi is a problem. just because you have never seen how it would work does not mean there isnt a way.
edit on 5-11-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by UnlimitedSky
 


Hang in there. And yes Niceguybob is nice. Notice the graph depicting rainfall that was posted as a response to bobs post? Notice the date on the graph? Notice how Bob describe seeing rain systems come and go with no chemtrail activity during those six months. Most of these debunkers have no interest in what we say. We just shouldn't be saying it.

We all know what we see.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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= ) Some mornings,when the sun is coming up,you can see they hit us pretty hard the previous night.
Still fresh tracks starting to disipitate.

And it's NOT because it was summer. Last summer we got hammer'd everyday. And the summer before that.

That's why it was so refreshing to see just blue skies for so many days and months in a row.

I've been watching everyday for years.

After a very heavy spraying for a couple of days,I was hiking up in the Mnt's and saw some residual crap in one of the spring runoffs. It looked like it was spiderwebby crap like they layer up there. I was pretty far up in the Mnts but I REALLY wanted to take the sample to a lab. It wasn't runoff spring muck. That was right next to it. I shoulda taken some to a lab. No baggy. Fiberous,but not.

Deny ignorance..but don't tell me contrails are the same as flight patterns I don't understand leaving LONGGG trails back and forth. Again,not worth commenting on.

But hey, anyone that's lived in Italy and now lives in SA deserves a positive defence and response.



posted on Nov, 5 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Cadreamer? Your thread connect goes to number of babies born. No mention of chemtrails.

And help me buy old man Mondavi's house up on Silverado Trail. I think $12million is a good price.
I'm short 11million and about $999,000.

I'll pay ya back.





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