The Big Republican Gamble - Cheney/Miller - Has it backfired? - The O'Nerdling Factor

Back in Georgia, Mr. Miller is known as Zig Zag Zell--now ya'll know why.

One of the bars in Atlanta that caters to the political types, ( I believe it was even owned by a former mayor) has taken Miller's portrait down from the wall and hung it in the bathroom. Don't think he'll be too welcome there any time soon.

I can't at the moment recall whether Zell has children or grandchildren, but if his new buddies get re-elected, I am very much afraid they will find another war to send mine.

Wonder if they will be able to find away to draft only the democrats. The republicans spew so much hate toward liberals, I get the feeling their searching for 'a final solution'.




[edit on 2-9-2004 by frayed1]

Originally posted by Seth Bullock

Originally posted by Nerdling
Wow nativeokie! This is like they're handing the whole thing to Kerry on a platter.

You go on believing that. I found his speach refreshing and honest. I also felt the Vice Predident did a good job.

On the other hand I found Matthews and Blitzer to be very partisan in their attacks on Sen. Miller. I came away from those interviews with the opinion that if your a Democrat, and you voice an anti-party line opinion, CNN and Hardball are places you better avoid.

It comes downt to personal opinion I guess. You, as a liberal Democrat say this as a disaster for the Republicans. I as a moderate Republican, found them to be speaking to me.

Sure, maybe a few too many mentions of God for me, but the Democrats had their share of that crap too.

And, frankly, as far as the negative portrayal of Kerry... Well I can't say I heard anything that wasn't true.

btw.. The fact that all of the threads at the top of the recent post list are anti-Bush? That is nothing new.. Been that way for months. And I am only counting threads from Rant.

EDIT- To add "Flame away boys, I can take it."

[edit on 9/2/04 by Seth Bullock]

No flame here, just curious why you think making a fool of yourself on a national stage is something that should be partisan. He attacked Kerry for the same votes that Cheney did, that's all he was taken to task for.

I'm glad he did, now Cheney can't use it as ammunition anymore. Quite worshipping your candidates and just take them for what they are. All politicians are idiots, and they prove it every day.

Originally posted by nativeokie
I will say that Chris Mathews handled himself very well and stayed profesional throughout the interview. I kept thinking maybe he did miss understand but now learning from you he lost it equally as bad minutes before on CNN it confirms the guy is a troubled man.

I am still shaking my head, just wishing that NBC had picked up the coverage to ensure it was seen by more.

I used to watch Chris Matthews show everyday. I began to notice he has this habit or looking down on ther person he is interviewing, almost sneering. You can definitely tell when he is talking to someone he doesn't like.
This is my opinion, based on listeing to him and watching his facial expression.

This is the attitude Matthews had for Miller.

Originally posted by jrsdls
Leave it to the Democrats to start the spinning. If zell miller came out and said that every American would be given $10,000 just for being American you guys would rip him apart. What was said is that Kerry was a no-show for 20 years in congress, that why he won't speak about his record.

Come on man, of course Democrats spin, point taken. Are you really foolish enough to think Republicans don't though? Sheesh...at least I can admit it...your supposed to be denying ignorance.

By the way, here's part of his speech, the part where he attacks Kerry for the same thing Cheney did and probably why the GOP is backing away from his speech today:

Together, Kennedy/Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that is now winning the War on Terror.

Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security but Americans need to know the facts.

The B-1 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, dropped 40% of the bombs in the first six months of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The B-2 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Hussein's command post in Iraq.

The F-14A Tomcats, that Senator Kerry opposed, shot down Khadifi's Libyan MIGs over the Gulf of Sidra. The modernized F-14D, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered missile strikes against Tora Bora.

The Apache helicopter, that Senator Kerry opposed, took out those Republican Guard tanks in Kuwait in the Gulf War. The F-15 Eagles, that Senator Kerry opposed, flew cover over our Nation's Capital and this very city after 9/11.

I could go on and on and on: Against the Patriot Missile that shot down Saddam Hussein's scud missiles over Israel, Against the Aegis air-defense cruiser, Against the Strategic Defense Initiative, Against the Trident missile, against, against, against.

This is the man who wants to be the Commander in Chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?

U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than twenty weeks of campaign rhetoric.

The point your bringing up is the very last sentence above, excuse the media, not Democrats for calling hypocrisy as they see it.

Now, should I reprint the voting records of Republicans over the last 30 years or so and how often they attended them or do you want to do some research on your own before blowing off simpleton statements like the one above?

Cheers.

Originally posted by jrsdls

Heres a lil example of why you have to conclude that Spanish people didn't cave in, but never wanted to go in the first place( and other nations in Europe for that matter)

www.fact-index.com...

On februari 15 2003(before it started) at least 10 million people world wide, of wich at least 2 million people in spain held huge protest marches against going to war in Iraq.

Imagine 1 million, 1.3 million or 3 million people walking a protest march in downtown NYC(thats how much there were in London, Barcelona and Rome), wouldn't it be quite obvious they are against going??

Yet the spanish goverment went along with it anyway and after the bombings, this goverment that was already heavily critisized for not serving the people, including on the Iraq issue, got booted, the hard way.

EDIT: ps. these marches and protests were so huge they got listed in the Guinness World Record book ...

[edit on 3-9-2004 by thematrix]

Zell said that Kerry and Kennedy had voted against the weapons systems that won the cold war??

Well, I thought the cold war was not actually 'won' as on a 'battlefield' with 'weapon systems'. ( the cold war battlegrounds that I recall, Korea, Vietnam, were stalemates or dismal failures)

Feel free to correct me,-I'm sure someone will- but I had the feeling that the populist uprisings in those communist satellite countries, plus the economic problems in Russia, along with an taste for more of our 'decadent western culture', crumbled much of the opposition from within. (I suspect Rock 'n Roll being beamed beyond the iron curtain was more responsible for the end of the cold war that 'star wars' weapon systems)

The Berlin wall was not bombed down, but torn down by hand, by the people who lived right there.

[edit on 3-9-2004 by frayed1]

ZELLaphant had a bad case of memory lapse when he wrote that speech. The same things he criticized Kerry for, (wanting to cut certain weapons) Bush I and then Sec. Defense also wanted cut. Sheer hypocrisy, playing to the fact that most Americans won't bother verifying the validity of statements made.

Salon.com gave some analysis and refuted claims made in both speeches (Miller, Cheney), point by point with links. It's unreal. The Republicans have sold their souls...

Originally posted by jrsdls
The previous Spanish government were backing the war on Iraq, then Al-Qaida attacked the train and the socialist/Communist party used to as a banner and promised people that if they were elected they would remove the spanish troops from Iraq, there by Al-Qaida would not attack them anymore. The Spanish people cave in. They thought that if they stayed out of Iraq, they would not be attacked anymore. Just like France.

- This line of 'thinking' is such a massive lie. It is absolutely not what happened in the last Spainish election.

The previous government of Spain was caught, absolutely 100% bang to rights, attempting to 'use' the Madrid bombing for their own narrow selfish party political ends.

That was their 'crime'. That was what motivated the people.

Aznar's government lasted about the same number of nano-seconds after that that any political party would anywhere.

All the rest of it, the unpopularity of the war etc etc is all very interesting - and true - but the fact remains that Aznar's Spainish gov got caught out doing something unforgivable and, surprise surprise, they were not forgiven for it.

......and I realise the cheap insults go down well with a certain 'type' in the US but wake up, people in Europe wanted to keep out of the Iraq war because they thought it was the wrong thing to do and that the reasons for it were far from compelling if not an outright lie (which has proved to be the case), not because of a fear that they would be attacked (where have you been? We have been attacked by terrorists umteen times before already. For years.).

It obviously seems to be news to you but terrorism didn't begin with 9/11 and that attack on America.

I'm not trying to diminish 9/11 or insult the memory of those who suffered and died in that attack but you seem to feel free with your infantile insults.....

.....the truth is we in Europe have suffered terorist attacks (many directly funded by Americans) and innocent civillian deaths for decades.

BushCo. and the pressfakers have convinced at least half of America that terrorism was invented on 9-11. You see, unfortunately, alot of Americans are completely self-centered and self-interested. They do not realize that there is equal and valid life going on all around the world. Everyone must think and act like us. McWORLD It NOW!

Don't you know - America is the center of the universe!