It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Big Republican Gamble - Cheney/Miller - Has it backfired? - The O'Nerdling Factor

page: 1
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:00 AM
link   
Ok, now i'm not one to regularly post in this forum but i'm going to make one now due to the intensity of the scenes tonight.

Its my firm estimation that tonights "events" at the Republican National Convention in New York may have cost Bush this election already. It was a big gamble to say the least to have a Democratic keynote speaker who would usurp the Vice Presidents "thunder" and has it been an awful awful mistake?

Nobody really knew the contents of the speeches and that was something that immediately angered the networks, for when they televise speeches they like to know whats in them so they can prepare talking points for their anchors/talking heads to go over so it makes them seem so much smarter. (Yes it really is that stage managed). So, before the speeches have even begun we have a series of angry networks all vying for a copy and not knowing what their about to air or whether they can legally show it.... The problems really start to begin then.

So Zell comes on stage and we all know he's a democrat from Georgia and he's gonna do some meat-throwing to the crowd in order to bring them into his "zone" so they'll at least listen to him.

And then, it all hit the fan. SMACK. I sat there open mouthed all the way through it thinking "oh my god, they cant be doing this," well they have. And it is an INCREDIBLY risky strategy. If you don't know what i'm talking about then i'll line it up for you.

Double or nothing.
They've completely abandoned independents, swing voters and everyone else sitting on the fence to solidify their base. This is risky because you need to be sure your base is big and radical enough to carry you on to victory. You also need to make sure that the middle people and fence sitters are scared of the opponent and will not vote for him. Effectively this is a ploy to deny the opponent votes whilst not caring if they vote Republican or not. Very risky play guys.

Cheney also had a large part in this, he spoke calmly and coldly (ice cold) about how Kerry was a danger to this nation and how Kerry has done this that and the other. It was NEGATIVE.

And so by this point the sh*t had hit the fan. It was now time to pick up the sh*t, reform it, and throw it at a larger fan hitting GW in the face. BAM. It happened... Miller pissed off the press core.

It all began on CNN just seconds after Cheney got off stage. They cut back to their skybooth with Wolf Blitzer, Judy Woodruff, CNN Political Analyst Jeff Greenfield and Zell Miller (D-GA). Wolf brings the viewers back in and introduces who is there with them, I'm sitting there still open mouthed and now my eyes widen as I see Miller. He had made the fatal mistake of trying to "get back in with the party" by addressing the liberals watching CNN but it was not to happen this way, he started out sincere after a couple of "puff" questions which effectively did nothing but lull him. Jeff Greenfield who looked visibly angry turned to Miller and said "What if i were to say to you the President Bush has used the term Occupier at least FOUR times." He then quickly quoted verbatim from Zells address and he looked shocked. He paused for a few seconds (they knew they had him now) and Miller mumbled a "non answer" about how Kerry had voted against weapons etc. Completely disregarding Jeffs point.

And so then Wolf turns to Zell and says something similar to "Well, VP Cheney has voted against many of these weapons systems too, he's also voted no on several Kerry has not and I know this because I covered them when i was at the pentagon" Yet again Zell paused for a few seconds, and in journalism of the broadcast variety... a few seconds is a lifetime. He choked.

It was at this point i ran upstairs to tell people to turn on CNN to watch this hilarity. If you watched it then feel free to chime in.

I think that due to this negativity the republicans may just have cost themselves this election. It got downright dirty and there was no mention of the future at all. I didnt hear anything about new policies designed to help Americans or restart the economy.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens and how Kerry responds. They've effectively handed him control of the game.

Nerdling.




posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:07 AM
link   
Nerdling to add to this Zell Miller also lost it on hardball with Chris Mathews, apparently moments after this interview as it was only about 10 minutes after the speeches ended.

In that Mathews asked him direct questions regarding topics in his speech. Miller flipped and ranted and raved. Mathews then asked him about senatorial procedures on votes he again flipped and started yelling at Mathews about an interview he had with Michelle Malkin a few days before.

He then began to make a statement about living in past times in a threatening manner. Mathews jumped in and tried to get back on topic and Miller pushed and finally told him he wished we still lived in a time when he could challenge Mathews to a duel.

Miller also on many occasions kept saying he wished he was in the park with him live, in a very angry way.

He was unable to talk about any points in his speech, he was unable to defend any stance he took and with all the hand waving and yelling and just visible anger the man looked as if he was senile. He scared me in his speech, the anger it showed. As we will see in the morning papers just a few years ago at a benefit he introduced Kerry as someone who was committed to making america safe. Miller and then Cheney just showed us that the republicans are vicious and willing to draw blood.

Now we need to see how well Kerry can fight back. Gloves off!



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:12 AM
link   
Wow nativeokie! This is like they're handing the whole thing to Kerry on a platter. The man has clearly lost his marbles.

See, i didn't want to add your commentary because i was thinking you were joking about the duel challenge. I can't believe its actually true.


This has gone so wrong, every Democrat I know just became totally polarised to the left after this performance. Look at the board, all the top threads and now anti-bush.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:18 AM
link   
Thanks for catching all that too Nerdling. I almost lost my dinner from laughing so hard.

Why these morons can't do some basic research before giving speeches is beyond me. They don't need to the press to make them look like fools, they do a good enough job on their own.

Good post.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:36 AM
link   
Thanks Weller


I wonder if he'll be doing the breakfast shows!



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:46 AM
link   
Yeah it was a strange moment with the duel comment. Andria Mitchell was a bit shocked as well as Chris Mathews. Of course JC Watts was trying to say "he must have just miss heard your questions" but even he was trying to change the subject. I will say that Chris Mathews handled himself very well and stayed profesional throughout the interview. I kept thinking maybe he did miss understand but now learning from you he lost it equally as bad minutes before on CNN it confirms the guy is a troubled man.

I am still shaking my head, just wishing that NBC had picked up the coverage to ensure it was seen by more.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Nerdling
Wow nativeokie! This is like they're handing the whole thing to Kerry on a platter.


You go on believing that. I found his speach refreshing and honest. I also felt the Vice Predident did a good job.

On the other hand I found Matthews and Blitzer to be very partisan in their attacks on Sen. Miller. I came away from those interviews with the opinion that if your a Democrat, and you voice an anti-party line opinion, CNN and Hardball are places you better avoid.

It comes downt to personal opinion I guess. You, as a liberal Democrat say this as a disaster for the Republicans. I as a moderate Republican, found them to be speaking to me.

Sure, maybe a few too many mentions of God for me, but the Democrats had their share of that crap too.

And, frankly, as far as the negative portrayal of Kerry... Well I can't say I heard anything that wasn't true.

btw.. The fact that all of the threads at the top of the recent post list are anti-Bush? That is nothing new.. Been that way for months. And I am only counting threads from Rant.


EDIT- To add "Flame away boys, I can take it."

[edit on 9/2/04 by Seth Bullock]



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Seth Bullock

Originally posted by Nerdling
Wow nativeokie! This is like they're handing the whole thing to Kerry on a platter.


You go on believing that. I found his speach refreshing and honest. I also felt the Vice Predident did a good job.

On the other hand I found Matthews and Blitzer to be very partisan in their attacks on Sen. Miller. I came away from those interviews with the opinion that if your a Democrat, and you voice an anti-party line opinion, CNN and Hardball are places you better avoid.

It comes downt to personal opinion I guess. You, as a liberal Democrat say this as a disaster for the Republicans. I as a moderate Republican, found them to be speaking to me.

Sure, maybe a few too many mentions of God for me, but the Democrats had their share of that crap too.

And, frankly, as far as the negative portrayal of Kerry... Well I can't say I heard anything that wasn't true.

btw.. The fact that all of the threads at the top of the recent post list are anti-Bush? That is nothing new.. Been that way for months. And I am only counting threads from Rant.


EDIT- To add "Flame away boys, I can take it."

[edit on 9/2/04 by Seth Bullock]


I thought Chris Matthews looked like a gimp. Both Matthews and Wolf are liberals so it is no surprise that they tried to rain on the parade. They know he is leaving office so they dont care about alienating him. You notice that Chris Matthews never lets people finish their sentences...his ego is off the charts.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:58 AM
link   
Seth I cannot disagree with you more.

The questions were directly related to his speech. He was asked to clarify comments he chose to make to the American people. Instead of elaborating on the points he went on the defensive and refused to answer them. The spit balls question was a good one. He had said in his speech that Kerry voted against weapons systems and that Kerry would not keep us safe. Mathews asked him to elaborate on that. Does he really believe that Kerry would not protect America, he then challenged the interviewer to a duel.

Mathews also asked a very intelligent question about senatorial voting. In the Senate you are in constant negotiation. You sometimes cast votes one direction to either help secure another needed vote (knowing the measure will pass without your vote) or because you supported an earlier on different version of a bill (usually without a lot of pork attached to it). Like it or not every single senator does this. It was how the system was designed. Miller just lost it.

Mathews in my eyes was being fair although he was a bit rattled by the soon to be former senators hostile attitude. But don't worry, if the republicans like Miller they can have him. If it walks like a republican, talks like a republican and votes like one, it must be a republican. Maybe not a bad thing but call yourself what you are.

And before anyone brings up the whole Ron Reagan talking at the DNC, Ron Regan is NOT a republican. He also confined his speech to the stem cell issue so comparisions are inappropriate. Beside his speech was a real snoozer.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:10 AM
link   
The wheels have come off in Miller's head.

Forget the Republican party, he should be headed for Betty Ford.

What a raging lunatic!!! He made Cheney look like a friendly, cuddly Grandpa.

You right wing goons have really lost it...and as an Indepedent...I will tell you I enjoyed Cheney's speech until he went negative, and Miller came out with a look of rage on his face...I mean, if you get a chance, watch his speech again, and look at his face. What a furious, sad, pathetic old man.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:23 AM
link   
I was hoping somebody caught the Chris Matthews thing too!
Miller lost his freaking mind! I couldn't believe he actually said he wanted to challenge Chris Matthews to a duel. The hate and anger in his eyes reminded me of the same anger you see in Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson's eyes when somebody disagrees with them, it's so vile, thank you so much Miller for helping seal Kerry's victory.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:34 AM
link   
He's a good dog. He really is.


He served his function in the Democratic Party for 40 years doing just this insane stuff. See his 92 keynote speech. Try to get some of his tirades from the Georgia local press.
He's awesome. And the Republicans HATED him for it.

But let's face it. Bucknuts crazy IS bucknuts crazy. Plain and simple. What's changed so much in the Democrat Party I guess Zell sadly found out is we leash rabid dogs now.

Glad he found a new home in the radical right. I mean if Pat Buchanon has problems with the necon party now...


I'm just beaming with pride over the huge convention differences and how positive Kerry/Edwards have kept this overall.


[edit on 2-9-2004 by RANT]



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:37 AM
link   
Nerdling..

we all know that you had the title of this threat written out before the speeches tonight. Give it up... really.

Everyone here has biases... but you consistently run Democratic propaganda BEFORE the events it is even responding to have happened. I'm waiting for you to start a thread called "Bush's speech considered a failure" before he ACTUALLY EVEN GIVES HIS SPEECH THURSDAY NIGHT...


...Really, if you're just going to run reactionary... no... PRE-reactionary (anticipatory?) propaganda... please do it in regards to events in your own country. Do I start sports threads about games in Kent or Cornwall that critique events that haven't happened yet?



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:40 AM
link   
Hard Ball is one of my favorite shows to watch, Chris is really good at what he does and he does it well
. Now I wished I had watched the RNC tonight just to see Miller and Cheney made to look the part they played in the RNC,..... like the jacka$$es that they are
. Maybe C-Span will do a replay or maybe Chris will
. I fell off my chair
while reading Nerdling's and nativeokie's play by play of the RNC,
. Nice job you two
.
WAY TO GO CHRIS MATTHEWS



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams

Nerdling..

we all know that you had the title of this threat written out before the speeches tonight. Give it up... really.

Everyone here has biases... but you consistently run Democratic propaganda BEFORE the events it is even responding to have happened. I'm waiting for you to start a thread called "Bush's speech considered a failure" before he ACTUALLY EVEN GIVES HIS SPEECH THURSDAY NIGHT...


...Really, if you're just going to run reactionary... no... PRE-reactionary (anticipatory?) propaganda... please do it in regards to events in your own country. Do I start sports threads about games in Kent or Cornwall that critique events that haven't happened yet?



Sweet! We have a psychic on these boards!



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 01:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Seth Bullock
On the other hand I found Matthews and Blitzer to be very partisan in their attacks on Sen. Miller. I came away from those interviews with the opinion that if your a Democrat, and you voice an anti-party line opinion, CNN and Hardball are places you better avoid.


Matthews and Blitzer are equal opportunity bashers. I've seen them do it to both political parties. They drew blood and the feeding frenzy commenced. And you have to admit that Zell set himself up for this. He came out guns a blazin' and when asked about some of his comments - got awfully defensive, awfully fast. Tsk, tsk.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 02:30 AM
link   
Zell Miller?
Yeah, so what The Republicans at the convention heard what they wanted and Democrats got madder- no big deal. CNN- it doesn't vote. Wolf Blitzer- now who thinks “Joe Average” even cares what some bohemian looking stooge says?

To date the RNC provided “Ar-nauld” with a platform. Schwarz talked to everyone, Dem and Neocon alike. The looks on the audiences faces said it all- “he's one of us!” Not Republican, not conservative “us.”

This is something Edwards and Dean had- Kerry hasn't reached it and won't. Bush- well he's pliable. 'Ol wifey-poo laid a good stage for him and he will do well.

What with daily Viet Nam and war on terror stuff nothing of substance has really percolated up. AFTER Bush speaks I hope the issues get a thrashing. At this stage it doesn't bode well for Kerry.

The environment- a non-issue. Too far down the ladder.
Gayness- maybe but I doubt it. No winner for either party.
Economy- - - Bush will do all in his power to keep this from percolating up. Remember Bush\Perot\Clinton- “it's the economy stupid.”

Bush will die if, and I doubt this, the economy really gets to be an issue.
Iraq and terrorism- a non-plus for either party. Dismal failure so far with no bright spots in the future.

Just as I see it-



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 03:55 AM
link   
I gotta hand it to them, the Republican Party’s flag flew high last night. All that negativism, paranoia, mud-slinging, anger, denial, lies and arrogance packaged so nice and neatly into a few short hours of B*lls-Out Idiocy! In-F**k*ng-Credible!! What a hoot!!!

Is it any wonder why the rest of the world thinks we’re idiots?!! We display it so proudly and wrap it in red, white and blue! We put a bunch of loons on a stage screaming for all the world to hear, “Hey! Look at me! I’m a total idiot and damned proud of it!! So be careful and don’t mess with me, cause I might just blow your country off the map out of utter stupidity in the name of patriotism!! Yeee Haaaaaaaa!!!”.

The sad part of it all is that most people probably connected with it, and it made them even prouder than before to be American. A sad commentary on the intelligence of the average American citizen.

I haven’t heard a single speech during the entire RNC that addressed any meaningful issues. All I’ve heard so far is the endless attacks on John Kerry and how proud everyone is that we’ve thoughtlessly occupied a country for no legitimate reason, while losing 1,000 American lives so far in doing so. I feel like I’m living a bad dream. How convoluted can this get? What has gone wrong with the minds of so many American citizens that we can proudly support the homicidal actions of a psychotic, fanatical “leader” while he goes around the world slaughtering innocent people at will in the name of ‘terrorism”? Why aren’t people here just as outraged with this administration as the rest of the world is with it?!! Have we all lost our minds?

Well, as much as I wish I could share your optimism in the American electorate, IMHO I have a feeling last night’s embarassing debacle will only serve to unite these stuffed shirts all the more. What an embarassing and dismal time to be an American …

We need a real leader, not a religious crusader …


[edit on 9/2/2004 by netbound]



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 06:02 AM
link   
The speech of Miller was almost hilarious.
What do they think they can achieve with just being negative about Kerry, instead of being positive about Bush.
The things Miller said about Kerry often did not make a whole lot of sense, and you could notice by how the crowd responded that more people felt it was going a little too far.

I believe Miller actually did Kerry a favor, by doing a speech the way he did it. If I would be Bush I wouldn't have let that clown do a speech on my convention.

As a European I think Kerry is what's needed at this point. A change in the agressive and ego-centric image that Bush gave america, that made a lot of people dislike the USA and their administration.

Let's hope Bush' speech is just as mean, and Kerry will surely win.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 06:34 AM
link   
Leave it to the Democrats to start the spinning. If zell miller came out and said that every American would be given $10,000 just for being American you guys would rip him apart. What was said is that Kerry was a no-show for 20 years in congress, that why he won't speak about his record.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join