The Moon Is Upsidedown Tonight ! Las Vegas, Nevada

reply to post by CherubBaby


OK -- so Atzil321 was wrong to post what he did. He should not have called you a liar.
Now...can we move on to the issue at hand?

Please explain WHY it would be impossible to see the "boat-like Moon" (meaning the terminator line would look generally horizontal) from Las Vegas.

You stated in earlier post that the "boat moon" or "horns up" moon should ONLY be visible from the equator, but can you please explain WHY you think it would only be visible from the equator?

I admit that the closer a person is to the equator, the more pronounced the "boat moon" effect would be (in general -- although that varies by season due to the tilt of the Earth). However, I'm saying the effect would still be noticeable, even at mid-latitudes, and even if we basically ignore the tilt of the Earth.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

No atzil321 made the nistake of editing my post and then calling me a liar. Or do you still disagree with that???

He didn't edit your post. He claimed you'd rotated the image, and posted an image rotated the way he thought it was. He called you a liar. He was wrong.

However your moon photo is still a normal moon.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I will move on as soon as I know why a persons post that is a fraud and defamitory is allowed to remain and discredit my thread on the first page.. Manners and decorum? Right !!!!!

reply to post by CherubBaby


Everyone agrees he was wrong, and rude. That does not give you a free pass to ignore that you too are wrong.

There's nothing wrong with the moon - I'm thinking you must be at least suspecting this by now?

reply to post by Uncinus


No your wrong. I will tell you when and what I think. And I think his post is defamitory and should be removed from the first page. Do you think its a violation to edit and call me a liar and that it should remain? Yes or no??

reply to post by CherubBaby


What are you trying it start a petition? Ask a mod.

I think his post was rude and incorrect. You immediately correct him. So let's move on?

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Uncinus

 

No your wrong. I will tell you when and what I think. And I think his post is defamitory and should be removed from the first page. Do you think its a violation to edit and call me a liar and that it should remain? Yes or no??

I can't tell a mod what to do. I see some merit in removing intentionally defamatory posts, but I suppose it may be hard to tell intent from just sheer ignorance.

However, I think you are letting Atzils321's post overshadow this whole point of this thread. This thread is not about one rude post, it's about the assertion that the Moon as seen from Las Vegas should NEVER look like it does in your picture from the original post.

Stop going on about one rude post from 18 pages ago (one that we all agree had no merit whatsoever), and let's get back to business.

reply to post by CherubBaby

Yes, you are correct. The guy who posted this on the first page, post by Atzil321, is wrong. He simply rotated your photo 90°. You can clearly tell from the silhouette of the tree branch against the Moon. I think the reason nobody addressed this is obvious. For one, you can clearly see that it has been rotated 90° and two, it doesn't matter. The Moon is supposed to be as it is seen in your original image, boat Moon as you call it.

I am interested in astronomy and have been for decades. I also live near the 45th Parallel and see this effect of the Moon tilting that we are discussing in this thread. This happens with the Moon when it is crescent as well as when it is full. The craters, maria, mountains and rilles all tilt as the Moon moves across the sky. The same thing happens to the background stars. The Big Dipper's spoon is sometimes upside down and sometimes right side up. I have also sat out on the beach and watched it spin over the course of several hours.

In reality it is not the Moon nor the stars that are moving in this case. We, the observers, are the ones moving. This apparent motion is counter-intuitive so I do understand your confusion but you shouldn't dismiss others that attempt to explain this to you. You are starting to pay closer attention to your environment, which is wonderful, and observations such as this will become apparent. You are not the first to notice such things and I guarantee that if you keep paying attention to your reality you will see other things that appear confusing and counter-intuitive.

At this point you can either maintain the assumption that something here is wrong and we here on ATS are nothing but a bunch of diss-info shills, or you can attempt to understand what is really happening. Personally I find the latter to be more productive. One way to do this is with a miniature 3D model such as a small globe, a baseball and a flashlight. With the help of a friend and a dark room you should be able to see what is happening and therefore gain a competent understanding of this event. The way I did this was to sit out on the beach with friends and a campfire and over the coarse of the night watched the stars rotate overhead. This physical understanding of the Earth's shape and motions can be mind blowing.

I took another shot of the moon today and there is nothing wrong with the moon, it's not turned in any ways, no spinning or so.

I can post it here if you like and judge for yourself.

reply to post by Devino


Well put.

I genuinely believe that there is absolutely no amount of evidence whatsoever that will convince the OP that he is mistaken in his belief. None. Nada. Zero. The moon itself could shoot the OP an email saying "it's all good" and there would be no budging.

Thus, this thread has the potential to go on forever.

Here's a handy moon simulator.

astro.unl.edu...

It does not, unfortunately, simulate the angle of the moon, just the phase. But the horizon diagram can be useful for seeing the relative position of the sun and moon during different phases.

reply to post by Devino


No That is your opinion. Nothing more. Iwill continue to post when I feel like it. In the meantime, Rules are Rules and manners are manners Etc. Atzil must have fallen off the planet. Or is it ridiculous to assume maybe they are on another nickname by now. The fact is it was defamitory and is allowed to remain and even the mod said they had no right to call me a liar. Then why does the post remain. I will anwser when I get an answer..In the meantime all the "Experts" can continue being experts on everything but the facts of the first page. I won't continue a game with two sets of RULEBOOKS.. Is that expert enough for you?

Originally posted by ColAngus
reply to post by Devino

 

Well put.

I genuinely believe that there is absolutely no amount of evidence whatsoever that will convince the OP that he is mistaken in his belief. None. Nada. Zero. The moon itself could shoot the OP an email saying "it's all good" and there would be no budging.

Thus, this thread has the potential to go on forever.

I just started laughing hysterically. Thanks for this.

reply to post by CherubBaby


So you won't continue with the discussion because you feel slighted by someone who is no longer here?

Originally posted by Uncinus
reply to post by CherubBaby

 

So you won't continue with the discussion because you feel slighted by someone who is no longer here?

Notwithstanding the fact that the OP has continued the discussion for nearly 2 dozen pages since the slight, but only now feels it's time to make a line in the sand.

Buying time to refute the insurmountable evidence?

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Devino

 

No That is your opinion. Nothing more. Iwill continue to post when I feel like it. In the meantime, Rules are Rules and manners are manners Etc. Atzil must have fallen off the planet. Or is it ridiculous to assume maybe they are on another nickname by now. The fact is it was defamitory and is allowed to remain and even the mod said they had no right to call me a liar. Then why does the post remain. I will anwser when I get an answer..In the meantime all the "Experts" can continue being experts on everything but the facts of the first page. I won't continue a game with two sets of RULEBOOKS.. Is that expert enough for you?

I'm a little confused. What does Atzil's post (which everyone here agrees was wrong, irrelevant to this discussion, and meaningless) have anything at all to do with the evidence the rest of us have provided to you?

Why are you muddying up our evidence by continually trying to tie the rest of us to Atzil?


Please -- one more time...

Explain (or perhaps provide a graphic) why you are saying that ONLY people at the equator would see the terminator of the moon to be generally more horizontal when it sets.

I understand why you are saying it would generally look that way from the equator (0°), but what about 2° North latitude? Does it suddenly "go vertical" when viewed from 2°? What about 4°? Maybe at 10 or 15° North latitude? 25°?

At what point heading north does the terminator of the Moon no longer look generally horizontal? (or at least a little tilted, like in your OP picture).

Let's Please Stay On Topic

Originally posted by CherubBaby
In the meantime, Rules are Rules and manners are manners Etc. Atzil must have fallen off the planet. Or is it ridiculous to assume maybe they are on another nickname by now. The fact is it was defamitory and is allowed to remain and even the mod said they had no right to call me a liar. Then why does the post remain.

Originally posted by Majic
We did not remove some posts for which there were many responses because doing so would have left some gaping holes and potentially caused confusion in the thread.

I think we have been reasonably forbearing about all this, and it is beyond pointless to belabor that particular incident repeatedly over the course of several pages in lieu of discussing the actual topic.

You are quite welcome to express your opinions about the topic you started, but this is not a complaint forum and if you insist on derailing your own thread, despite our repeated requests for all members to stay on topic, it will be closed.

If you have any further questions or concerns, let me know, but let's please respect the need for everyone to stay on topic.

Thanks.

This link shows just how surprisingly complicated the relative motion of the moon is, and why people have a hard time figuring it out (me included), and are sometimes surprised.

www.britannica.com...

Originally posted by Uncinus
This link shows just how surprisingly complicated the relative motion of the moon is, and why people have a hard time figuring it out (me included), and are sometimes surprised.

www.britannica.com...

Thanks Uncinus.

That graphic shows how even the mid-latitudes of the earth, such as the location of Las Vegas at 36° N, can intersect the Moon's orbital plane (which for all intents and purposes can be considered to be like the "equator" when talking about the Earth-Moon orbital system). This is why the Moon can appear to have a horizontal terminator line when it sets, as seen from those latitudes during certain seasons.

In addition, depending on the season, the Moon can even have a terminator that looks "mostly" or "a little" tilted toward the horizontal when it sets, even when seen from, say for example, 45° N latitude.

Another thing we could do to better understand what is happening here is to show the angle of the setting Moon's terminator, or shadow line, to that of the horizon and compare these to pictures taken from different latitudes. This angle should be smallest near the equator and increase as we go farther towards the North Pole.

Perhaps someone else here might have enough time to do this. The results, I would think, would be very interesting.

The Earth's axial tilt with respect to the Moon's orbital plane change so the date needs to be the same. The Moon's orbital plane actually rotates in an 18.6 year cycle and the Earth takes 365.25636 days to make one sidereal orbit. The difference in angles between the terminator and the horizon should be due to the position of the Lunar nodes to that of the Earth's axial tilt and the degree of latitude.