One Cause For Our Anger; Corporate Welfare

i once read in newsweek that the average ceo in america makes 270x what the average factory worker makes. in japan the average ceo made 11x the average worker.

imo that indicates something very wrong. capitalism/business should be about survival of the fittest and becoming a lean mean killing machine(in a business sense). why such a gross overpay? is it because hiring an insider and spending millions more lobbying for special treatment is more profitable than making a better mousetrap? no wonder we lost our manufactoring base,sounds like a fools paradise. these people are tricksters trying to create wealth from nothing and leaving someone else to pay.

think about it if a non white, openly gay tranvestite, crossdressing, non christain, pro comunist.female made company abc 30% more in profit than a white male ceo,in an actual jungle thats who would get the job even in the 1950s.

we have a rigged ponzi scheme system run by insiders, the bailouts, the tax breaks, special treatment, are all clues to the crime. companies prioritizing the creation of dividend checks for shareholders over creating a better product for their customers is attempting to create wealth from nothing and wealth will allways be a zero sum game our national debt is the woods where they hide the body.

Originally posted by randomname
the standard reply is that it will threaten a corporations ability to be competitive and they'll be forced to close down, lay off workers or move jobs overseas. which they do any way.

basically blackmail the government. which is what corporate lobby groups and politicians came up with while they were sipping brandy and smoking cigars, laughing hysterically at the face of the american people.

This is a farce, as you mention. The standard response is hogwash, as they are mostly competing against other American corporations.

The other part about jobs going overseas, is that all the payroll tax: Fed, State, and city taxes that should be going to our governments to keep the infrastructure going are not there. Corporations want to say that they are American, but do very little any more to actually contribute like they should.

reply to post by Kali74


Flagged and starred.

Most people on ATS spout off about the poor smuck that rips off a few hundred bucks a month from welfare........don't tell them that jobs now are insourced and outsourced and if you can get a job at all it pays frap.

But most people on ATS keep swallowing the Corporate Koolaid and ignore that corporations get special dispensations and breaks compared to the common man.

People think corporations are people.

WRONG;

There while many people hold small stocks in corporations, most corporations are pretty much owned in bulk stocks, by a select few (the 1%).

Simply do your research.

Good post..........maybe just maybe you might have awoken a few of the sleeping beauties in the Matrix.

reply to post by Kali74


I'm at a loss to figure out why this would cause me to be "seized by an irresistible desire to hurl yourself headlong into the nearest OccupyYourLocalCity protest".

I'd really rather do something that stands a chance of having a result. I'll get ahold of my congress critter and ask him why in the hell this sort of thing is allowed to happen, and that he should do something to fix it ASAP - or else start job hunting, because he'll soon be out of a job if he doesn't.

It makes a lot more sense to me to direct my questions and demands at someone who might rectify the situation, and I see these corporations laughing all the way to the bank over the silly "little people" who have the quaint notion that they are going to do something to regulate them selves, just because the occupiers said so.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

I agree about the government at least in addition to protesting banks and corporations, but it's like a 3 headed hydra, the time to protest the government will come.

When will that time be? I have a notion of when the occupiers think it will be, but I'll hold off the exposition of that theory until after the next elections... which, not coincidentally, is what I think they are waiting to see the outcome of, too...

If the government takes another lurch away from collectivism as it did in the mid-terms, and towards manageability, THEN they'll march on DC. That is the ONLY reason that makes any sense as to why they are misdirecting their movement right now and giving the only law making body who could make their dreams come true a pass currently.

The collectivists already have a firm toe hold in the government, which is why they are ignoring the government and trying to assimilate the economy instead. Once they have both, life will be very different, and painted in East German shades of gray rather than in color.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

It is the ability of corporations and big-money interests to lobby our elected representatives that is the key issue here. They can pour tons of money into the Congress so that they will pass legislation in their favor.

Our representatives are surely part of the problem, but if you took the lobby money out of politics these crooks in office now never would have ran for office to begin with.

It all starts will the money....IE corporations and banks

So you think that the corporations are going to magically cave in to your demands because you yell and beat drums at them?

The problem may start with the money, but the solution starts with firing malfeasant public servants. keep firing public servants until you get results. yelling at bankers isn't going to suddenly make them not-bankers with a conscience, but putting their cushy jobs on the line will have an effect on politicians.

Originally posted by randomname
the standard reply is that it will threaten a corporations ability to be competitive and they'll be forced to close down, lay off workers or move jobs overseas. which they do any way.

So let 'em close down if they don't know how to run a business. No such critter as "too big to fail", and no one needs to be working for a corporation that unstable anyhow - there's no job security in it. Take away ALL of their tax breaks and pile on debilitating tax penalties if they move jobs overseas - after all, that makes them a foreign interest. Tax the crap out of anything they try to import back into the US. Pile on extra duties for corporations that got their start here and then went multinational, even more than corps who started life overseas.

You'll have to get the attention of DC to do any of that, though... yelling at building facades on Wall Street isn't going to get much done but produce a pretty echo.

Originally posted by GringoViejo
I can support the boycott, it makes sense. i still don't support OWS, They aren't protesting the government which, if ran how it should be ran, wouldn't allow companies to behave like this in the first place.

S&F

The government is bought and owned by corporate interests. This should be plain as day if you are paying attention. They are the ones investing billions of dollars to get their people elected, spending billions to lobby and in some cases even writing the drafts of bills that get passed.

Yes, in a limited sense, the government is creating the laws that allow corporations to run amok, ruling that corporations are people, ruling that corporate spending is protected free speech, etc. But you have to stop and ask why this is the case. Money is power, and the powerful have gradually eroded our democracy and constitution to serve their own ends.

The government is certainly bought and paid for. And I support OWS.

But the way the bribery is done is Washington starts with the politicians. They host "fundraisers" constantly where they sell access to themselves and give their loyalty to the highest donor.

So I agree with the statements that we must remove Corporate control from our political process, but I also believe that said Corporate control is auctioned off by the politicians who are leveraging their legislative responsibilities to collect money from whomever will give it to them.

It would make more sense to go after those who are selling us out first, IMO, rather than those who are buying them off.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

No they are protesting the owners of that government.

Or do you believe the millionaires secretly rule over the billionaires and call all of the shots?

And that is supposed to have an effect... HOW?

An illustration:

When I was a kid, there was this irascible old farmer who had an orchard. He never sold the apples, but got grouchy as hell with kids who came to get any. He had this dog - a pretty beast, and smart, too. Whenever the kids would yell at the farmer, the dog, perceiving his master to be under attack, would try to eat 'em up.

I was just a kid at the time, but I had a different plan. I never yelled at the farmer, nor did I make my presence known to him. Instead, I started feeding that dog. I'd give the dog a steak or a hamburger or whatever I could get my hands on meat-wise out in the smoke house.

After about 3 weeks, that dog was just as much mine as it was his. Imagine his consternation the day he saw "his" dog come out to meet me, wagging it's tail rather than yapping at me. That old farmer wound up giving me my first job, working in the tobacco and hay fields. The dog made all the difference.

Take that dog back. Yelling at it's current master isn't going to get that done.

Originally posted by Skewed
Not only do governments have a spending problem, so do corporations.

Why do corporations have to hire 3 people to do a 1 person job? Oh yeah, gotta create jobs. Creating jobs is good, but not this way.
I think corporations should pay a little bit more in taxes because they also put a drain on local resources that need to be replaced. If the corporation is going to use local resources to make their billions, then it is only fair they pay a higher rate to replace those resources. Take take take, never any give.

If corporations would check their spending habits and streamline their operations and get rid of that BS theory that bigger is better, then things would change for the better.

edit on 3-11-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)

In America, corporations lay off people so actually one person does the job of five (or more). Its not unusual for someone like me to work all day and night and even some weekends. If you have a blackberry in your hand that is provided by your corporation, you are like a dog on a leash.

Originally posted by wirehead

Originally posted by GringoViejo
I can support the boycott, it makes sense. i still don't support OWS, They aren't protesting the government which, if ran how it should be ran, wouldn't allow companies to behave like this in the first place.

S&F

The government is bought and owned by corporate interests. This should be plain as day if you are paying attention. They are the ones investing billions of dollars to get their people elected, spending billions to lobby and in some cases even writing the drafts of bills that get passed.

Yes, in a limited sense, the government is creating the laws that allow corporations to run amok, ruling that corporations are people, ruling that corporate spending is protected free speech, etc. But you have to stop and ask why this is the case. Money is power, and the powerful have gradually eroded our democracy and constitution to serve their own ends.

On the other hand,
no governement has ball to said anything to those company , that can go everywhere in the world and still make business in their country why ?
Because chinese is so economicly powerfull that nobody can say # about them , regulate anything that coming from them even if they make business in your country , so what should they said anything to any company if there is no real law about making business in your country delocalised.
It sad but gov should allow only people on their country to make business with their country or tax the delocalised company way more than that and then they could really make the law about corporation because they will have weight (or maybe better weight).
But still it totaly theorical , there will still be lobbying and other nasty thing...

Originally posted by jed001
reply to post by Kali74

 

i truly believe that we need to start boycotting all these companies who take advantage of the system. They cry poor but give themselves billions of dollars of our taxes as bonuses. the government does not want to help so it has to start with the people

A boycott is a good idea, but it won't work alone. It has to be a two-pronged assault. Without ramping up pressure on the government at the same time, they will just give the corporations under boycott another "stimulus" to keep their heads above water.

Boycott if you must, but be sure that DC knows it's a pink-slip for them if they interfere.

reply to post by Kali74

Occupy Everywhere.

You had to go ruin a good post with that one last line....shame.


This isn't OWS's "one cause"...it is only one of their many causes. If this was all OWS was about, sure...I'd jump on board.

But when I support OWS, then I also support the other idiotic ideas they have...so sorry...this isn't their "one cause"...but nice try.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by nenothtu


You speak as if you have some sort of solution to our problems? Please, if you have a better idea, we would all love to hear it.

Unfortunately, protesting and striking are basically the only tools at our disposal to express our dissatisfaction. What are YOU doing to make your voice heard, beyond criticizing the protestors from behind your keyboard and cramming doritoes down your face?

There is a PROBLEM, the problem has everything to do with MONEY, and all the money passes through, and is generated by, WALLSTREET.

I have to add something here...I have seen a lot of posts that differentiate between Government and Business. This is a fallacy. In the U.S., Canada, U.K. most G20 nations if not all, the governments are Incorporated. They are businesses. They have the facade of being something else, but that is part of the myth. Your government and mine are invested in heavily by 1%ers for the very reason that they enjoy the benefits of commercial kickback and preference by that business.

People demand a separation of Church and State...

Time to demand a separation of Business and Government.

Focus on the root of the problem. Attacking corporations and attempting a citizens arrest on a CEO is nonsense when Barney Frank, Charlie Rangel et. al. are sitting comfortably in their cozy offices and leather chairs.

Corporations are Amoral institutions in the business of generating profits. Congressmen are people who have legislated in the favor of Corps. for something in return. I blame the person.

ENOUGH!!

...and more than enough!!

All this bickering, and nonsensical back and forth stops now.

Do you numbskulls not realize that the arguing and stupidity tossed back and forth only acerbates the problem? It does nothing to solve it.

If you can't discuss the issue with out the name calling, you might want to rethink posting on this issue.

Enough!

Edit to add: This is aimed at both sides of the issue, not one particular group.

reply to post by jibeho


Well said!


second