reply to post by Witness2008
Purely because, while there may be a 'technical' link, that is not what people are seeing and reporting, and calling "chemtrails" is it?. There is
no trail from these activities, at least not one you could see from the ground, even if it wasn't obscured by the cloud they are seeding (which must
be there already). It dilutes the discussion to meaninglessness
Also, because rain comes from cumulus type clouds that are far lower than cirrus and that cirrus clouds do not descend and never rain, it is clear
that the white "chemtrails" left by jets among the cirrus clouds, or in clear skies, are not related to that activity.
In the document you linked it also talks about release in Low Earth Orbit, again, this is not something that is going to be happening with jet
aircraft..
As a consequence of this game of 'switcheroo' between explanations , any debate there might be to be had about cloud seeding, or climate change
alleviation attempts, gets swamped by yet more and more photos of normal, if heavily populated skies and the justification of "they must be
chemtrails because we know about cloud seeding" type arguments
Massive Chemtrail Attack: Midwest, page 20
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 06:01 PM by esteay812
reply to post by Uncinus
Please see the post above your original post to me, I edited it to add some more insight and info concerning the origins and history of chemtrails.
Please see the post above your original post to me, I edited it to add some more insight and info concerning the origins and history of chemtrails.
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 06:03 PM by Aloysius the Gaul
Originally posted by Uncinus
No evidence for something indicates it probably does not exist. (assuming it's existence would create evidence).
And it is a logical construct called evidence of absence.
As Uncinus alluded to in his bracket comment - if there WOULD/SHOULD be evidence from "something", then it is reasonable to take the lack of such evidence as indicating that the "something" is not there.
So what sort of evidence SHOULD there be from chemtrails? I guess it depends on exactly which version of the chemtrail myth you believe, but here's some that occur to me:
1/ air samples with unusual materials in them
2/ evidence of unusual aircraft operations
3/ evidence of some sort of material that is loaded into aircraft in some manner - mixed with fuel, or tankered or however else you think it might be achieved
4/ whistleblowers - people willing to provide cross-examinable evidence about the activity
5/ documents - aircraft operating documents such as weight and balance sheets showing provision for something other than their normal loads, maintenance manuals, operating manuals, training manuals, payments to chemical companies, payments to airlines to carry it out, or to pilots as "hush money or something along those lines
There may be more - those are just one ones I think would be obvious.
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 06:39 PM by esteay812
reply to post by Aqualung2012
I agree with you, it is nice to see an effort at documentation.
Isn't it wild how the trails look when they are so defined and criss crossing each other? Hope they aren't killing us, but they are neat looking for sure - I guess it is a bad thing if you are a naturalist and it upsets you that you will probably never be able to see the sky without some type of technolgical pollution
I agree with you, it is nice to see an effort at documentation.
Isn't it wild how the trails look when they are so defined and criss crossing each other? Hope they aren't killing us, but they are neat looking for sure - I guess it is a bad thing if you are a naturalist and it upsets you that you will probably never be able to see the sky without some type of technolgical pollution
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 06:42 PM by ProudBird
reply to post by Aqualung2012
You may re-think that sentiment, if you care to go back and read more of this thread, and the scientific contributions.
You can also use these as primers:
Contrail Science
What Is a Contrail, and How Does It Form?
"What Is a Contrail", by Sawyer Aviaiton
Snppet:
It's great to see someone documenting this!
You may re-think that sentiment, if you care to go back and read more of this thread, and the scientific contributions.
You can also use these as primers:
Contrail Science
What Is a Contrail, and How Does It Form?
"What Is a Contrail", by Sawyer Aviaiton
Snppet:
...."If contrails contained an unnatural substance then they would be seen every day, but they are absent on many dry days in Arizona. Similar to how you can see your breath on a cold day, contrails are condensed water vapor from jet engine exhaust.
It doesn’t take much to realize that jet engine exhaust is extremely hot during flight, reaching temperatures of 620 °C – 1,000 °C (comparable to the temperatures inside a crematorium). This temperature will incinerate any biological substance and reduce most chemical substance to ash."
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 06:48 PM by ProudBird
reply to post by Aqualung2012
The Aurora Borealis, or so-called "Northern Lights" do not occur in our atmosphere..... they are charged particles, ions, that are being affected by Earth's magnetic fields, and are far above the atmosphere. So, the notion of anything like cirrus clouds (which is all that a contrail is) being able to "tamper with" them is not plausible.
Further, the presence of the contrails is simply "bad luck" in this case....but, usually contrails aren't that "thick" anyhow. So, for those who wish to get this rare view from your latitudes, you have to blame Mother Nature if it clouds up more, and you miss the *show*.. The displays may keep being active for some time though, and will again with another burst from the Sun in future. So, since weather conditions are always changing, you should get another chance to see them one day.
Then, I get home tonight and I am suprised to read that we may expect to see the northern lights tonight, through the weekend!
I wonder if they might be stepping up the chemtrailing a bit to blurr our view of it, or even make and attempt to tamper with it?
The Aurora Borealis, or so-called "Northern Lights" do not occur in our atmosphere..... they are charged particles, ions, that are being affected by Earth's magnetic fields, and are far above the atmosphere. So, the notion of anything like cirrus clouds (which is all that a contrail is) being able to "tamper with" them is not plausible.
Further, the presence of the contrails is simply "bad luck" in this case....but, usually contrails aren't that "thick" anyhow. So, for those who wish to get this rare view from your latitudes, you have to blame Mother Nature if it clouds up more, and you miss the *show*.. The displays may keep being active for some time though, and will again with another burst from the Sun in future. So, since weather conditions are always changing, you should get another chance to see them one day.
edit on Sat 5 November 2011 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:02 PM by Argyll
reply to post by esteay812
The weather at ground level may have been near identical........what where the weather conditions at 37000 feet on the respective days?
This weather conditions earlier in the week, the day when the original pictures were taken, were nearly identical to the conditions today. The difference is that the contrails were everywhere and did not dissipate
The weather at ground level may have been near identical........what where the weather conditions at 37000 feet on the respective days?
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:04 PM by Witness2008
reply to post by waynos
First denial of any activity of dispersing metal oxides into our skies, then when a scientific study discussing the possibility is posted for all to read, you change the height of the bar.
You know what.... I will never change how you think, nor will you change how I think. The important thing for you to do however is to influence folks that are beginning to see the obvious. Most folks don't have any absolutes...you certainly don't, although your pretense is that you do.
There is a growing number of rational, intelligent folks that can figure out what it is they are seeing with out you or any one else talking to them as if they are helpless imbeciles.
First denial of any activity of dispersing metal oxides into our skies, then when a scientific study discussing the possibility is posted for all to read, you change the height of the bar.
You know what.... I will never change how you think, nor will you change how I think. The important thing for you to do however is to influence folks that are beginning to see the obvious. Most folks don't have any absolutes...you certainly don't, although your pretense is that you do.
There is a growing number of rational, intelligent folks that can figure out what it is they are seeing with out you or any one else talking to them as if they are helpless imbeciles.
edit on 5-11-2011 by Witness2008 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:09 PM by ProudBird
reply to post by Witness2008
Well then....explain to this "imbecile" just how it can be assured, in your mind, that if some "metal oxides" were "dispersed" into our skies, that such a release and dispersal pattern wold look exactly like what we already know normal contrails look like?
And, we already see normal contrails behave in the same ways they have since the first time aviation advanced to the point of flying high enough for them to be a factor?
And, normal contrails behave exactly the same as their cousins, cirrus clouds?
Explain, because this "imbecile" here wishes to know how another person can have such certitude......
First denial of any activity of dispersing metal oxides into our skies, then when a scientific study discussing the possibility is posted for all to read, you change the height of the bar.
Well then....explain to this "imbecile" just how it can be assured, in your mind, that if some "metal oxides" were "dispersed" into our skies, that such a release and dispersal pattern wold look exactly like what we already know normal contrails look like?
And, we already see normal contrails behave in the same ways they have since the first time aviation advanced to the point of flying high enough for them to be a factor?
And, normal contrails behave exactly the same as their cousins, cirrus clouds?
Explain, because this "imbecile" here wishes to know how another person can have such certitude......
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:35 PM by waynos
reply to post by Witness2008
Sorry, I don't get how I am changing the height of the bar at all? Are you saying that these processes ARE the same thing as the long white trails that I say are contrails that we are getting pictures posted of?
Please explain how that is the case? How does one cloud seed in a clear sky, how does one create rain among cirrus clouds, what convinces you that metal oxide trails look exactly the same as contrails. that sort of thing.
Also, what is it exactly that determines to you what is a chemtrail and what is a contrail?
Sorry, I don't get how I am changing the height of the bar at all? Are you saying that these processes ARE the same thing as the long white trails that I say are contrails that we are getting pictures posted of?
Please explain how that is the case? How does one cloud seed in a clear sky, how does one create rain among cirrus clouds, what convinces you that metal oxide trails look exactly the same as contrails. that sort of thing.
Also, what is it exactly that determines to you what is a chemtrail and what is a contrail?
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:41 PM by esteay812
reply to post by Uncinus
Is there any evidence that chemtrails exist now? How would no evidence for either time period dis credit one and credit the other?
The term - chemtrail - may have been coined in the late 90's by the majority of conspiracy theorist, but it is not an invented word and the theories regarding chemicals in contrails did not magically appear without previous speculation.
Also, if you do not define those elements as chemtrails, what do you believe chemtrails are made up of?
Patents for anti gravity do not prove existence of such a machine, nor do they disprove it
My point is not that there are patents for such chemical dispersion units and formulas. The point is that chemtrails, chemical disperion units, and chemical formulas were indeed talked about and development may have occured before the late 1990's
Couldn't chemtrails contain many varying ingredients, depending on the desired effect of the chemicals relative to each individual flight?
Is there any evidence that chemtrails exist now? How would no evidence for either time period dis credit one and credit the other?
The term - chemtrail - may have been coined in the late 90's by the majority of conspiracy theorist, but it is not an invented word and the theories regarding chemicals in contrails did not magically appear without previous speculation.
Also, if you do not define those elements as chemtrails, what do you believe chemtrails are made up of?
Patents for anti gravity do not prove existence of such a machine, nor do they disprove it
My point is not that there are patents for such chemical dispersion units and formulas. The point is that chemtrails, chemical disperion units, and chemical formulas were indeed talked about and development may have occured before the late 1990's
Couldn't chemtrails contain many varying ingredients, depending on the desired effect of the chemicals relative to each individual flight?
edit
on 5-11-2011 by esteay812 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:44 PM by Aqualung2012
reply to post by ProudBird
Do you really believe that there is nothing to the chemtrail idea? It's all just regular old contrails right?
....Just these particular ones tend to linger, start and stop randomly, form in globules and criss cross eachother midstream. Are we also to believe that these streams may occour one day and not again on a virtually identical one? Is that honestly what you think when you look up at them?
I think there is more to it. Granted I cannot funnel it down into a specific motive, I do sense something dubious in a massive secret program to dump unnatural material into our atmosphere.
That's my opinion. I won't accept that nicely wrapped response.
Do you really believe that there is nothing to the chemtrail idea? It's all just regular old contrails right?
....Just these particular ones tend to linger, start and stop randomly, form in globules and criss cross eachother midstream. Are we also to believe that these streams may occour one day and not again on a virtually identical one? Is that honestly what you think when you look up at them?
I think there is more to it. Granted I cannot funnel it down into a specific motive, I do sense something dubious in a massive secret program to dump unnatural material into our atmosphere.
That's my opinion. I won't accept that nicely wrapped response.
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:46 PM by dw31243
reply to post by Aqualung2012
Glad to you see that you are looking up.
Today in Chicago, IL. Once again, they sprayed. This has been going on all week.
Get up right at sunrise and you can see the planes coming in fleets of one-after-another. I saw the first plane at 8:00 am. It was flying North with a normal con-trail then it made a 60 degree turn to North West and began spraying a Chemtrail for about 3 minutes then switched back to a normal contrail.
Through out the day you could see usually a fleet of 3 chemtrail planes trailing each other at about 100 miles apart. They would spray at certain locating and keep flying. And... no they were not con-trails when they turn the Chemtrails on and off.
By the end of the day it was another "white-out".
Check the Lance MODIS Pictures for the "white-out"
Isn't 6 days of Chemtrail spraying enough for these guys?
Glad to you see that you are looking up.
Today in Chicago, IL. Once again, they sprayed. This has been going on all week.
Get up right at sunrise and you can see the planes coming in fleets of one-after-another. I saw the first plane at 8:00 am. It was flying North with a normal con-trail then it made a 60 degree turn to North West and began spraying a Chemtrail for about 3 minutes then switched back to a normal contrail.
Through out the day you could see usually a fleet of 3 chemtrail planes trailing each other at about 100 miles apart. They would spray at certain locating and keep flying. And... no they were not con-trails when they turn the Chemtrails on and off.
By the end of the day it was another "white-out".
Check the Lance MODIS Pictures for the "white-out"
Isn't 6 days of Chemtrail spraying enough for these guys?
edit on 5-11-2011 by dw31243 because: Spelling
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:53 PM by waynos
reply to post by esteay812
If I may give my view. the term chemtrail was coined in the 90's by specifically FOR aircraft contrails in order to promote fear and make money out of the uninformed, an example of which is chembuster, which can be found easily.
With the lie having taken a firm hold, chemtrail believers are now casting the net wider to pull in other activities which can be loosely termed chemtrails in retrospect to 'prove' the original lie. The fact that these other things were always in the open and are decades old is of no consequence.
If I may give my view. the term chemtrail was coined in the 90's by specifically FOR aircraft contrails in order to promote fear and make money out of the uninformed, an example of which is chembuster, which can be found easily.
With the lie having taken a firm hold, chemtrail believers are now casting the net wider to pull in other activities which can be loosely termed chemtrails in retrospect to 'prove' the original lie. The fact that these other things were always in the open and are decades old is of no consequence.
reply posted on 5-11-2011 @ 07:56 PM by ProudBird
reply to post by dw31243
LOL! Really, because the image from MODIS is of clouds.
Say, ever bothered to research the relative humidity and temperature trends for that area, in the last 6 days?? Checked the weather forecasting sites? Anything, at all to better educate??
Check the Lance MODIS Pictures for the "white-out"
......
Isn't 6 days of Chemtrail spraying enough for these guys?
LOL! Really, because the image from MODIS is of clouds.
Say, ever bothered to research the relative humidity and temperature trends for that area, in the last 6 days?? Checked the weather forecasting sites? Anything, at all to better educate??
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