RE: Every thread complaining about OWS

Here is a written notepad paper by one of our fighting men/women who are defending the freedoms of both you and me, so we can demonstrate without being put up against a wall and shot! Maybe you should think more about that while you're holding up that sign.



Like so many, I am unemployed as well. But I have my hopes up for a warehouse dock job come next week! A big difference from the 90k a year I was making 6 months ago in an I.S. position. But at least it's a job! And I am grateful! WE ALL should be grateful! People have NO IDEA what freedoms we have here in the states. I don't think most people who complain have actually been to a third world country! Try it sometime! I think your views will change real fast…!

Originally posted by wagnificent

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by wagnificent

 

More of the "you're either with us or against us" rhetoric. Your argument is essentially "you can't defeat a tyranny without first bonding with it".

Thanks, but no thanks. I don't have to hug a snake to know that it's going to bite me if I give it a chance.

I can just look at it, see that it's a snake, and realize that snakes bite people.

You have taken my words out of context, much like many of the other people on here who have extracted quotes and misinterpreted them to make their own point. It must be difficult to knock down a straw man, Leonidas.

You point your finger at me and accuse me of creating a dichotomy, then your snake metaphor makes your post reek of irony. No argument I can provide is likely to change your view, so I hope you can find peace on your island.

You're right.

It's a function of my thoughts not always keeping up with themselves. In the beginning of OWS, I was for the protestors, but against the movement. As time wore on, and the protestors made their various wishes known, I gradually turned against them, too.

So now we come to the point where I am not with them, and so I AM against them.

So you're right.

Occupy wants to tweak the rules of the game to make it fair. What does that mean? It means they want to alter the rules to favor the underdog. They want different sets of winners and losers. In the game, fairness is relative. The winners are simply better at playing the game. As long as the game is being played, there will be winners and losers. The winners make the rules, so Occupy will lose. Occupy could protest the game itself. However, the best way to do that is to leave the game and take the rest of the world with them. They should occupy the commune.

I run into people who have no idea that Occupy is going on. I also talk to people who think it's a waste of time. They either don't think it will create a fair game, or they think the system would work just fine if there were a God fearing Republican in the White House.

I'm a non-flag-waving socialistic atheist, and I wouldn't fit in at an occupation. That should give you haters some pause. At least it's entertaining. I like the girls who can't afford shirts.

To me, the whole world is a circus, and you are merely clowns. I'm not being condescending, nor do I feel superior. I would honestly like to see this circus tent come down. But, if you all are going to fight to keep it up, I'll take 2 bags of peanuts please.

I have an idea:
Occupy Black Friday...
Could you imagine 30 million people sitting at home on the day after Thanksgiving (known as Black Friday) and not spending one singel dime??? Can you imagine millions of stores opening their doors to the sound of crickets? What a lovely sight that would be!!!!
Remember your dollar is a vote, too, start exercising your vote!!!!
This year I am occupying christmas, I am going to only buy through yard sales, flea markets, listings on craigslist and a couple of "homemade" gifts are going to be giving.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Occupy Black Friday

Have you ever worked retail on Black Friday? Those shoppers have no clue about current events.

Originally posted by definity

I agree if any of us was given a job where we could earn millions how many would say no...

I would say "no". What the heck am I going to do with millions? Just something to keep me awake at night worrying about my money. Don't need it, don't want it, won't have it.

If I could negotiate them down to a more manageable figure, we might have something, there. it would have to be somewhere south of 100k, though.

reply to post by gentledissident


Sadly, I have...MAybe we should put up signs in the doors just with facts like how many chinese children are working in sweatshops to make those freaking tickle me elmos dolls...or something? Of course Wally world wouldn't probably keep those signs up, and they'd probably have the people arrested for posting the truth on their front doors.

reply to post by nenothtu


yeah but you are one of the 1% that would turn a opertunity like that down, if the world was more like you we wouldnt be in this situation to begin with!

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

The government/politicians are in the back pocket of the corporations & banks.


You don't target the puppet, you target the puppet master....

The organ grinder and not the monkey.


Once the hold has been released, then you can rehabilitate the monkey.

What good is the organ grinder if you take away the organ and the monkey, and re-train the monkey to do YOUR work instead of his?

Do that, and his organ grinding days are over.

Originally posted by definity
reply to post by nenothtu

 

yeah but you are one of the 1% that would turn a opertunity like that down, if the world was more like you we wouldnt be in this situation to begin with!

Yeah, it's probably a sad thing, but I've got no ambition!

Honestly, I just think there are things that are far more important than money, and which give you fewer headaches in the long run.

Originally posted by blupblup

Many, many politicians get into politics with absolutely the right idea and to try and affect change.... sadly, it just doesn't happen.
For too long lobbyists, corporations and big business through funding and investments have literally owned politics... for this to stop, you must attack the source, not the infected.

Nossir. You attack neither the source nor the infected, you attack the infection. I don't care how many sources you oil over, no healing will happen until the infection is addressed. While you're out killing the malarial mosquitos, the infected are still dying.

You attack the infection if you hope to save a life, Preventing future occurrences by attacking the source is to no avail if the patient dies. Then it doesn't matter any more how much infection is around - there's no one to catch it.

You save the patient first, THEN go after the source.

If you vote out the career politicians, and send a clear message that we do NOT want politicians representing the best interests of those who "buy" their votes, then the "puppet masters" have no strings to pull.

Well you would need to get rid of 99% of them... and that just would not happen.

Are you saying here that it is your belief that the "99%" are all greedy career politicians? If not, then why would getting rid of the greedy politicians also eliminate the "99%"?

It does not matter that OWS has not got all or any solutions.

If it takes a Village to raise a child how much more to make Democracy work, or a Republic to hum?

People do not need to be political scientists to effect change, or to deserve it.

You do not need all the answers or any of them. Those answers will come.
People need to vocalize the status quot isn't working for them.

"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!"

Why should anyone pay attention to your issues if you don't.

And then people get together and demand alternatives...Only then will answers get suggested and either considered or torn apart and what survives this painstaking scrutiny is your plan.

What you want to make SURE YOU DON'T DO, IS REPLACE SOMETHING UNTENABLE WITH SOMETHING THAT IS WORSE.

So the solutions and the answers should be some kind of a conglomeration of the best and most workable and immediate solutions along with the best long range solutions, serving the most the best, WITHOUT unduly burdening any one group.

And no one is likely to have all or any of those answers yet.

We don't even know what some of the questions are but, we need to be re routed as a Nation of people on a path that assures our success.

What we are looking at now is failure.
The Tea Party underscored that and now OWS is hammering it home.
This is not working for us - not for any of us.

To be against that...? You must have a huge vested monetary interest as well as no speck of conscious and no love for your country.

People will never upset the status quot or cure toxic government unless enough of them get together and demand that it be done.

Like I said, they don't have to have the answers - Just get out there and say "change."

And yes, you have to start demanding change or everything WILL stay the same

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Thank you for that statement from OWS, straight from the horse's mouth as it were. It certainly clarifies things. I now know what they are "against", although I know not what they are "for", but what they are for matters little, considering the freedoms they intend to suppress. After having read that statement, I can confidently and boldly announce that I am foursquare against not only OWS, but also those protestors who wittingly subscribe to it, knowing it's mission statement.

It's really rather liberating to realize that I no longer have to defend and protect them while taking on their Puppet Masters. If they are aware of that statement and still elect to make common cause with those Masters, they are no less culpable.

I am entirely in agreement with Section31's post wherein he said:

I will not back down.

Its all or none.

No more compromises.

No more speeches.

....

Democrats and 'OWS' declared war. We were only fighting to preserve the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Unity, and Declaration of Independents. But... You wanted regulations, anarchy, and entitlements. You wanted universal healthcare, free education, and the end of capitalism.

No.

We end this like men on the field of ideological hell.

I'm ready when you are. 'Tis a sad thing that OWS has forced this decision upon us, but the ideological differences are irreconcilable if that statement represents their stance. Freedom must be preserved, whatever the cost. It's not just our own futures, but the futures of our children and grandchildren which hang in the balance.

Let's dance.

reply to post by Xcalibur254

but as soon as they expressed these worries they were asked to leave.

That's unfortunate and not surprising really, but anyway I wasn't really agreeing that what the OP said would work, just wanted to clarify what was actually being said because some people seemed to have a hard time getting it.

Originally posted by newcovenant
It does not matter that OWS has not got all or any solutions.

Yes, it does.

If it takes a Village to raise a child how much more to make Democracy work, or a Republic to hum?

If someone cannot even manage to raise a child on their own, it is foolhardy to entrust them with an entire government and the responsibility for an entire nation.

You do not need all the answers or any of them. Those answers will come.
People need to vocalize the status quot isn't working for them.

And "you have to pass the law to find out what's in it".

No thanks.

It's not even sort of sane to buy a pig in a poke, sight unseen.

If you don't know where you are going, you are just wandering aimlessly in the wilderness, and will never get anywhere.

What you want to make SURE YOU DON'T DO, IS REPLACE SOMETHING UNTENABLE WITH SOMETHING THAT IS WORSE.

And there is no way of knowing that without first knowing what you intend to replace it with.

Ever heard the old adage "look before you leap"?

To be against that...? You must have a huge vested monetary interest as well as no speck of conscious and no love for your country.

In ALL of those particulars you are wrong. Dead wrong. But it doesn't matter what you think of me. This "movement" is going down. Hard.

Like I said, they don't have to have the answers - Just get out there and say "change."

That worked out well in the 2008 election cycle, didn't it? How's that "change" working for you?

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

And YES, to the person who said they hadn't heard anyone bashing the OWS non-supporters....YES, people are calling us all sorts of things. I don't know how you are missing that....

I'm one of the ones who had the "Doritos" allegation aimed squarely at me in one place, "Cheetos" in another, and those were two of the kinder things said.

Don't sweat it - they're only going to see what they want to, and that's not my problem nor yours. I'm beginning to think more and more that it was only a distraction, a diversion, to try to keep out minds "Occupied" so that we wouldn't see what they were up to.

#Occupy neno's mind is now closed for business.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jameshawkings

 

The Lucits Trust does not speak for nor represent this movement and was not our co founder. There were 12 private citizens that started this movement who are independent from any firm in the nation.

Do you care to share who these 12 people are?

This is the first I've heard of OWS being started by 12 people.

Sounds like a coven or a secret society to me.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Names are not publicized but a diverse group of men and women who range in age from 25 - 40 who are lower middle class!

In late July or Early August I remember attending an outdoor conference at Zuccotti Park with 15 people present (myself included) and discussed and planned what would become this movement! I however cannot take credit for being a Co Founder as my role there during that time is not to be discussed!

edit on 4-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Yup.

Sounding more and more like a Secret Society.

And less and less like a "spontaneous uprising".

Originally posted by nenothtu

Yes, it does.

Nah, it doesn't.

Ever heard the old adage "look before you leap"?

Ever hear the old adage..."you don't know what the heck you're talking about?"

Like I don't know rhetoric when I hear it... And The Village reference - went totally over your head.

And...

DON'T REPLACE SOMETHING UNTENABLE WITH SOMETHING THAT IS WORSE

Did I stutter? Look before I leap is not a better way to say this my friend. What I said is something very different but also I think a little lost on you.

And there is no way of knowing that without first knowing what you intend to replace it with.

If I understand this correctly - it is another way to stall and gives banksters time to divest wealth and hide money. Not even all that creative. Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Does anything like "discussion" and "negotiation" ring a bell under that helmet, or do you use a spear?

For most of the rest of us - agreements are arrived at and hammered out by the interested parties, they are not brought along and imposed.

In ALL of those particulars you are wrong. Dead wrong. But it doesn't matter what you think of me.

Well not from where I'm sitting. And wasn't considering "you" per se anyway but NOW that I read I'm thinkin you are against Obama and so are against OWS because you think they are all Obama supporters.

You're not that hard to figure out. I recognize the talking points.

And judging from number of posts - you are also on a mission here to destabilize OWS. And if it

is going down. Hard.

Why do you try so hard?

War kills some and feeds others.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by nenothtu

Yes, it does.

Nah, it doesn't.

Ok. Tell me why you think it's unimportant to know where it's heading. Maybe you'll convince me.

Ever heard the old adage "look before you leap"?

Ever hear the old adage..."you don't know what the heck you're talking about?"

Uh... great answer?

No, wait - that wasn't any sort of answer at all!

Like I don't know rhetoric when I hear it... And The Village reference - went totally over your head.

Nope. It's an old worn out saw without any validity whatsoever, and I was pointing that out. I guess that went over your head.

And...

DON'T REPLACE SOMETHING UNTENABLE WITH SOMETHING THAT IS WORSE

Did I stutter? Look before I leap is not a better way to say this my friend. What I said is something very different but also I think a little lost on you.

well, you spent the entire post up to that point trying to make the point that it doesn't matter that OWS is wandering aimlessly with no answers - now all of a sudden you want to claim that they DO have answers, but you just can't divulge them? You'd probably have to divulge what that intended replacement IS before anyone could determine if it was "better" or "worse"...

And there is no way of knowing that without first knowing what you intend to replace it with.

If I understand this correctly - it is another way to stall and gives banksters time to divest wealth and hide money. Not even all that creative. Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Nope, you're not understanding it correctly, apparently. In simpler terms it means... who am I kidding? There ARE no simpler terms! you can't know whether the replacement is better or worse if you don't know what the replacement IS!

Does anything like "discussion" and "negotiation" ring a bell under that helmet, or do you use a spear?

I'm going to have to change avatars. You people seem rather smitten with this one.

Discussion and negotiation take place before action, not after. Otherwise, the action has no direction and is doomed to failure or worse. Kind of like OWS.

For most of the rest of us - agreements are arrived at and hammered out by the interested parties, they are not brought along and imposed.

Good luck with that. It's not how power vacuums work in the aftermath of action with no plan, but if you think it is.... good luck with that.

In ALL of those particulars you are wrong. Dead wrong. But it doesn't matter what you think of me.

Well not from where I'm sitting. And wasn't considering "you" per se anyway but NOW that I read I'm thinkin you are against Obama and so are against OWS because you think they are all Obama supporters.

How did Obama get into this, and what's his relevance? I don't think they are Obama supporters - I think they are upset because they are NOT Obama supporters, since they didn't get quite as much of a radical swing towards collectivism as they were hoping for.

You're not that hard to figure out. I recognize the talking points.

And judging from number of posts - you are also on a mission here to destabilize OWS. And if it

is going down. Hard.

Why do you try so hard?

Yeah, that's me. A man with a mission.

Try as I might, I can't destabilize OWS any more than it already is.

I try hard because I don't believe in doing anything half-assed, especially when my kids' futures hang in the balance. An unstable OWS seems hell bent on handing them an unstable future (they can't even seem to say what they intend for that future to be!), where the only stability to be had is in the certainty of slavery and governmentally micro-managed lives.

War kills some and feeds others.

I'm sure you intended that to have some relevance to something...