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RE: Every thread complaining about OWS

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posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Be warned, OWS comes from The Lucis (Lucifer) Trust, they were the ones who registered the October 15th website/domain, they didn't know people would be able to look them up, they changed the name a few days later

The Lucis Trust behind Occupy Wall street
lalternativaitalia.blogspot.com...

Read about them, understand their goals; you will not like them. Read the link below, but then find your own sources through Google to help you decide for yourself.

The Lucifer Trust
www.jesus-is-savior.com...
edit on 4-11-2011 by jameshawkings because: (no reason given)


edit on 4-11-2011 by jameshawkings because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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We can't give up now, or stop the protests. What if we do?

We go home and do our job for our entire life and continue to serve the government for the rest of our lives? Then the same will do our children, and our grandchildren?
It's time to do something, we can't say, let's just try next time. It has to be done now, we need to change this world, we the people are the only ones who can do this. There is no other way we can change it, other than protesting, and trying to wake up everyone, from their slavery.

For those complainers, who have a great payment, a great big house and one, or maybe two cars, a family and your life is perfect. There are other people except you. Majority of persons on this planet can't afford, what you have.
They work very hard all their life, just to promise food for their children. What is the point of living without fun? What is the point of life then? Is it endless work to survive? What do we survive for then?



edit on 4-11-2011 by Patrik because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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Those that have posted to this saying smaller this and less constraints here have not offered or presented one solution to all of the problems and issues we face today and continue to offer none. To these individuals you get absolutely no sympathy from me. They have already lied down and are willing servants and slaves to their banking and corporate overlords and are the mindless sheeple devoid of a free thinking and active brain and are zombified robots willing to do, support or say whatever the overlords tell them. This is why the haters are being called sheeple.Hell, if Fox News told their viewers to start killing people I'm most definitely positive that nationally we'd see a massive uptick in homicides. This is not a war of ideology but a war for our future. The "Left-v-Right" paradigm is exposed and it's time is running out. The hourglass on that is getting extremely low with no one to turn it over. Political decisiveness is literately tearing this nation apart at the seams but people are to incompetent to realize this. The more we fight and bicker about bullcrud the more The SCUM are laughing at us and are relishing in their victory. All they have to do is push us to infight and not much else really would be needed. We have a once in a lifetime chance currently to expose, punish and exterminate all of these vermin and exterminate each and every last one of them like the cockroaches that they are and thank God that we are not squandering this chance.

To correct the OP and that is that we are not raging against Government we are deadset and totally against the corporate and banking control over our Government, if this is the smaller Gov't that these idiots envision then The Constitution, Freedom, Democracy, free electons, free speech, free press, right to jury trial, right to bear arms, right to silence, right to challenge, protection against illegal search and seizure is dead and long buried.

Wake up people, smaller Government only allows private corporations and banks to take firm control over Gov't. You could effectively control manufacturing, banking, retail, shipping and there'd be no way to challenge. This is who you are giving this nation on a silver platter to. This is who we all fight and stand against.

Policies and items determined in the first 25 years of this century will dictate and dominate the course for the next century and well beyond. The future is dependent upon us all today to set the ship right. What kind of world do you envision in 50, 100, 200 years? What are we willing to do now and tomorrow to ensure this?
edit on 4-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by jameshawkings
 



The Lucits Trust does not speak for nor represent this movement and was not our co founder. There were 12 private citizens that started this movement who are independent from any firm in the nation.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by wagnificent
There has been an obnoxious amount of complaining going on about the occupy movement recently, so I decided to start this thread rather than express my response to these complaints in every one of those threads individually.

Trying to undermine the occupy movement is pointless, especially via ATS. It must be pretty obvious by now that this movement is not going away. Why? Because there are things that need to be settled, and until those things are settled, there will be no business as usual. For many people, surviving everyday life is barely even feasible, much less the possibility of flourishing. Whether you agree that the American Dream is dead or not, many people think it is, and that's enough to get them in the streets for weeks on end.

Deadman's Advocate to 'Occupy: America" and "Anonymous"

"In times of desperation, people will believe what they want to believe. And so, we gave them what they wanted to believe. A trick in the form of signal the Resistance thought would win the war. And they were right, it will end this war. Except that it is the Resistance that will be destroyed. Not, Skynet. Our best machines have failed time again to complete a mission. Something was missing. We had to think, radically. And so we made you. We created the perfect infiltration unit. You, Marcus. You did what Skynet has failed to do for so many years. You killed John Connor. Don't fight, Marcus. Remember what you are." ~ Dr. Serena Kogan; "Terminator Salvaton", 2009


"You and me, we've been at war before either of us existed. You tried to kill my mother. You killed my father. But you will not kill me." ~ John Connor; "Terminator Salvaton", 2009

We are in a war of ideologies. Since Democrats and 'OWS' are now feeling the pinch, they post threads like this to stave off the coming fight. Why? They fear consequences.

I will not back down.

Its all or none.

No more compromises.

No more speeches.


"I am not here to tell you how it ends, I am hear to tell you how it begins." ~ Neo; Matrix; 1999

Democrats and 'OWS' declared war. We were only fighting to preserve the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Unity, and Declaration of Independents. But... You wanted regulations, anarchy, and entitlements. You wanted universal healthcare, free education, and the end of capitalism.

No.

We end this like men on the field of ideological hell.
edit on 11/4/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


No coherent message? Then what is this? Seriously this claim that we have no message has got to go and to end once and for all as we've made it abundantly clear and precisely have specified what exactly it is we seek but most can't be bothered to learn and take that lie at face value.

Presenting The Declaration Of The New York City, NY General Assembly for Sept 29 2011 Of #OccupyWallStreet occupying at Zuccotti Park in NYC!

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

Adopted, voted on and passed September 29, 2011!



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 


Your blame is misdirected. Gov't is a victim here like the people are. When corporations and Wall Street finance campaigns there is a fundamental and a catastrophic problem. Go after Gov't that takes the spotlight off of these entities which affords them the chance to further destroy us all. By targeting Gov't it has already proven itself as useless and a climatic waste of time as when we target Govt and Govt alone allows the mess we are in to deepen as all they'd have to do is find, vet and pay off new people to fill those spots and guess what darling? We'd be at Step 1 all over again with nothing changed but the inhabitants of said spots.

It is for this reason mostly why our beef is against the corporations, Wall Street and the banks as it all boils down to who's got the money and who has the ability and reach to finance things.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


How many times have I told you that The Communist party does not speak for us nor represent us yet you continually come interjecting in thread after thread with this outright and bogus lie?

Get over yourself and offer some solutions to our present day problems. It is beyond sickening.
edit on 4-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by dolphinfan
The movement is a parody. The folks have no coherent message, are funded and supported by political pressure groups, are made up of every form of low-life in society and loaded with the political fringe.


Their message is coherent enough for me to understand it, in a nutshell: "Get money out of politics and stop defrauding the American people that support this entire establishment".

What "political pressure group" are you talking about? LOL, please elaborate, this will be good.

I bet you don't have the backbone to walk up to a man who was just foreclosed on and call him a low life.


Originally posted by dolphinfan
The movement is irrelevant. Only the folks who are either living in those cities care about what is going on and in that sense only from the sense of how inconvenient these folks are making it. Regardless, for the past 20 years there has been a substantial trend away from cities - who cares what happens in Oakland - seriously? If the entire city of Oakland burned to the ground, outside of a 50 mile radius, it would be no different than OJ in the bronco for the VAST majority of people. Cities in this country have become so abstracted from life in the rest of the country, that most folks could care less what happens in them.


Thanks once again for that great example of broad based, oxymoronish opinion on OWS and the assumption of the rest of our opinions in this great country. It's true some areas of America are not doing as well economically, like the song says: a country boy can survive. Of course cities are different, a denser population has to be accounted for and this is more difficult than managing a town of 7000.

Actually, from what I remember quite a few people cared about OJ. It was all over the MSM for a decade and everyone was talking about it, you didn't get the memo? I would think burning Oakland to the ground would garner some attention, but this is all ironically... irrelevant, that must be the word of the day.


Originally posted by dolphinfan
Go ahead and get romantic about this and think that it's going to lead to "change". It is irrelevant. These people are irrelevant and this time two years from now folks will be saying "remember that time a couple of years ago when all of those fools where living in the park? What was that all about anyway?"


I'll get romantic about, because this is my damn country that my ancestors shed blood, sweat and tears over. You think we're all going to sit idly by and watch our country reduced to ruins because of a few careless leaders and underhanded businessmen, you think this "movement" is just going to fade away and those of us who have been wronged will just shut up?

If you could give a # about your country and countrymen, maybe you could stand getting "romantic" about it as well. You don't seem to understand, your not only dealing with us "low-life" politically radical whatever you want to call it, your staring right into the eyes of the #ing American spirit.

The wronged working man, the soldier who doesn't understand what he is fighting for, the single mother who struggles to keep her minimum wage crappy job, the college student who will be indebted for years for his contribution to our society, the farmer who can't sell his goods locally anymore due to government legislation, the son who has to watch his father go to prison for years pointlessly, the black man who watched society turn his community a blind eye, this is the true will of an America that is trying to reject reliance and press on into the future.

OWS may come and go, but the idea behind it will not disappear. Whatever follows OWS may just learn from it and be even more violent in its collective action. IF OWS is not heeded as a warning, Americans will eventually take a stand and heads may begin to roll on into the basket. Keep laughing all you want, I'm not.

This "movement" is a counterbalance of the evil that has been allowed to flourish in our society. It comes naturally and only ends when balance is once again restored, this has happened over and over again all throughout human history. This is the nature of revolution, it never just goes away.

Unless you fix the problem. One way or another, the problem will be eventually "fixed".
edit on 4-11-2011 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Your analogy is flawed, because we are talking about government that is designed to be representative...and despite the paranoia, it STILL IS representative.




If you think that then I'm afraid it is you who is naive.

Many, many politicians get into politics with absolutely the right idea and to try and affect change.... sadly, it just doesn't happen.
For too long lobbyists, corporations and big business through funding and investments have literally owned politics... for this to stop, you must attack the source, not the infected.







If you vote out the career politicians, and send a clear message that we do NOT want politicians representing the best interests of those who "buy" their votes, then the "puppet masters" have no strings to pull.




Well you would need to get rid of 99% of them... and that just would not happen.
FIRST you need to sever the ties with business, change the campaign structure and somehow get the politicians to represent the people once again.

Because right now, they only have the interest of big business on their minds.





Again, many of us do not support OWS because we think it should be OTG: "Occupy the Government".





Do it then?

Why moan at other people who are out there actually doing something.

Why not OTG??

A two-pronged attack would be much more effective,

But no, It's easier to moan and point from the sidelines I guess.


I'm going to have to get away from this topic because I feel like I am spitting into the wind.

I HAVE BEEN out there with the Tax Day Tea Party rallies here in my town, several years in a row, showing my support for the changes that our local group was working on.

I signed petitions.....

I contacted representatives..........

I VOTED for candidates that I felt would represent me well............

And I will continue to do those things.

Because I don't want to "occupy" anything, that doesn't mean I have done nothing.

I also think that if I have made just ONE person think about targeting the government instead of complaining about corporations, banks, and wall street, then I HAVE affected positive change.

I don't have time to OTG, because I have a job (currently on my lunch break). I'm glad to have a job, but with that and my family, I can't occupy anything except for my LIFE.

I think I will stay away from OWS threads going forward if I can.....it's hard, because I WANT to get people to think about the protests and how they are misdirected in my opinion. Apparently no one wants to hear that, except for the people who already think it.

And YES, to the person who said they hadn't heard anyone bashing the OWS non-supporters....YES, people are calling us all sorts of things. I don't know how you are missing that....



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jameshawkings
 



The Lucits Trust does not speak for nor represent this movement and was not our co founder. There were 12 private citizens that started this movement who are independent from any firm in the nation.


Do you care to share who these 12 people are?

This is the first I've heard of OWS being started by 12 people.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by steveknows
 


We are long past the point of having another opinion as facts continue to come in by the hour confirming alot of what we've known for a minute yet there are still those who feel that it's just another opinion when it's already been verified, confirmed as a 100% true and factual fact.

All people like me who stand united with this group can agree on is we are here because the facts speak for themselves and continue to speak loud and clear.

Banks and corporate influence and control over Govt is not another opinion but a solid fact!
Millions are homeless and jobless because of lack of jobs is not another opinion but is fact!
Trillions are lost in tax revenue because less then .5% of the population wants to keep it's tax cuts that could finance infrastructure, civil services is not another opinion but is fact!
Trillions are sent overseas to not so nice nations is not an opinion but is yet, another fact!

Turn off tv news for a week, go outside, talk to your neighbours and you will see the world for what it truly has become and if you are not sick of it then there is no hope or help for you.
edit on 4-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Names are not publicized but a diverse group of men and women who range in age from 25 - 40 who are lower middle class!

In late July or Early August I remember attending an outdoor conference at Zuccotti Park with 15 people present (myself included) and discussed and planned what would become this movement! I however cannot take credit for being a Co Founder as my role there during that time is not to be discussed!
edit on 4-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Names are not publicized but a diverse group of men and women who range in age from 25 - 40 who are lower middle class!


And we are supposed to believe this information with no source?

It's a secret...but somehow you know



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


Absolutely and you proved my point by listing a lengthy bullet list of every feel good bromide, from gay rights to alternative energy as the "message". It is no message. What it is is a list of every crying point from every leftist group in the country. They mean nothing, they are so broad as to be impossible to craft solutions, the solutions crafted thus far to solve some of these "problems" have led to fraud, waste and abuse.

OWS is an immature bundle of self interested folks who don't have the stones to tell these hangers on to get the hell out of the way. From the onset they could have come up with 3-4 issues for which there was broad agreement and for which practical solutions could be crafted with proposed solutions. They could have hammered those home and sought to expand their base. Instead, they have allowed every loon with a gripe to throw in with them as evidenced by you laundry list of "issues"



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Find a pdf file of something called "The Occupied Wall Street Journal" it is the movements newspaper and look for Issue 1 and read the article "Learning From The World" and it is specified in there about the 12.



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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It's pretty sad really how lacking in compassion for their fellow man and self centered these seemingly brainwashed Rush Limbaugh style drones are. They throw out their little catch phrases like "communism" "socialism" "class warfare" yadayada at everything when they clearly don't really even understand the original, non propaganda, meanings of the words.

They too are really just one string of bad luck or twist of fate (health issues, being fired, etc) from being poor and hungry or sick too, only when it happens to them will they finally understand.

To the people mocking ows and laughing at people's plight if you enjoy movies may I recommend watching Trading Places and It's a Wonderful Life? I'm sure you'll enjoy them, trust me
edit on 4-11-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


This is the declaration which is a declaration of wants and stances and to simply ignore this is dead wrong. This is the manifesto that everyone's been so arrogantly saying either isn't specified or doesn't exist. This is the emssage and is to be respected and treated as such.

You have proved my point by not being bothered to learn a thing and to do whatever the banking and corporate overlords tell you. Pitiful!

Either offer a solution or remain silent!
edit on 4-11-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


So, because there are so many wrongs, nothing is right?

Reminds me of Buffalo Springfield. Funny.

I will not live in a wrong world forever asleep.
edit on 4-11-2011 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by beezzer
 


I want stricter regulations on big banks, because the lack of regulations caused the financial collapse. I can't even comprehend how somebody could oppose that. Allowing corrupt big bankers to continue their practices, without being held accountable, which caused millions of people to lose their homes and jobs, is retarded IMO. If you don't believe that some of the big bankers are corrupt, then you're just uninformed.


You're throwing cute fluffy kittens at me. I lovelovelove cute fluffy kittens. Who wants corruption?


Sure, tackling the problem at the government level is a great idea, and I believe that should be taken extremely seriously by the movement. But even if our government is completely purged of corruption, maintaining that "I want a small government so I disagree with them" belief will allow the bankers to continue doing their shady business practices which get them rich and screw over millions.


Bankers won't be able to play with tax laws et al if we have honest people correcting the loopholes written by corrupt politicians.









 
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