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Program 863: Chinas attempt to Use Western Technology In its Buildup (Is it a military front?)

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posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 07:16 PM
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I came across references to Program 836 while researching China's biowarefare capabilities. One page made a reference to a State level program to integrate western technologies into the Chinies Industiral system. However as the website points out alot of the areas have huge military applications as well. Reminds me of the KGB efforts during the cold war to buy or steal technology and take it back to the Soviet Union. Does anybody have any further information on this project?

Thanks


This is particularly stark when one considers technology imports. To catalyze and augment indigenous efforts, China created the "836 program". 863 is a massive and systematic attempt to procure the best western technology and apply it to China's own development. This program of imports is intensively orchestrated by the government and focuses on those foundational technologies most pertinent to advancing scientific and economic development. Among these technologies, China considers biotechnology preeminent. These imported technologies have, in fact, been very visible in enhancing China's civilian biotechnology program. However, it is also believed up to half of all these imports have been secretly directed to hidden military applications as well. Through this method the Chinese have created a potent array of biological weapons.
www.zkea.com...




posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 09:15 AM
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China is deadly, no doubt.


Which is why it's in our best interest never to go to war with them.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 10:07 AM
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We will let them "procure" our technology to a great extent.

And then, we will use it to our advantage in the future if it becomes necessary.

Do not think for a minute that this hasn't been done before in the past, and that the U.S. government is'nt incapable of being insidious, pervasive, and patient when it comes to our opponents.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Pyros
We will let them "procure" our technology to a great extent.
Do not think for a minute that this hasn't been done before in the past, and that the U.S. government is'nt incapable of being insidious, pervasive, and patient when it comes to our opponents.


No doubt it is by far the proudent thing to be doing. And yes we do give away some of our best secrets. I was just wondering if anybody else had any deatils on the scope of this operation.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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FredT,

Exactly what kind of bio-weapons does China look like they have?

From what it sounds like, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using the xenomorph "Aliens" from the sci-fi movie franchise, or even the Zerg from StarCraft!

I think the U.S. seriously needs to devote a lot more research into medicine, specifically defense against disease and bio-weapons. These things kill painfully and leave a nasty mess that causes more death and suffering.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I think the U.S. seriously needs to devote a lot more research into medicine, specifically defense against disease and bio-weapons. These things kill painfully and leave a nasty mess that causes more death and suffering.


I agree with you there. Its much more prudent to develop vaccines and the ability to fight off a mass bio attack. The info on Chinas Bio Warfare program is very very scant. However, it is resonable to assume that they have the capacity to manufacture anything: Antrax, Tuleremia, Small Pox, Sarin, Riacin etc etc.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonica
I think the U.S. seriously needs to devote a lot more research into medicine, specifically defense against disease and bio-weapons. These things kill painfully and leave a nasty mess that causes more death and suffering.




With the price of drugs nowadays, can you imagine how the drug maufacturers would rape us with an anti-cbw program? It would be 'privatized' of course, to save money. Yeah right.


Still, better to do it soon and well, rather than wait for a large scale attack and not have any recourse at all.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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lol, this 'report' is so badly written they don't know if it's an 836 or an 863 program.

Any government will try to procure tech and industrial secrets. Duh.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 12:12 AM
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Bio-weapons are definitely something you can defend against. Nuclear and chemical that's something else

I actually think bio-weapons will become the weapon of choice in the future. It's so easy to hide and produce. And I think it could become more devestating with the advent of nanotechnology. With nanotechnology, it's possible to create bio-weapons that can be "programmed" to be deadly or attack certain parts of a body, or even certain types of people!

Then you got zombies, which the Nazis tried.

Damn, now I want to work with bio-weapons!

[edit on 3-9-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Bio-weapons are definitely something you can defend against. Nuclear and chemical that's something else

With nanotechnology, it's possible to create bio-weapons that can be "programmed" to be deadly or attack certain parts of a body, or even certain types of people!



[edit on 3-9-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]


Bio-weapons and so-called silent warfare is the wave of the future. Face it, the world's too small for conventional conflict and conventional conflict is determined too quickly now.

Attacking certain people or certain parts of the body is the realm of biowarfare, not nanotech. It will soon be possible to develop, say, an unstoppable virus that only becomes active when it infects the desired individual. Everyone but that individual would be a carrier but not become sick. So you infect a key person and the sickness spreads to a president, or a CEO, or a spy, etc.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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lol,lol,lol,lol,


as here reaction of known chinese 863,the real worry exist in chinese people think of USA huge science and technology advantage between us&china.



[edit on 3-9-2004 by chinatea]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:25 AM
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All this bio-warfare stuff is scary.


I think the biggest dilemma is that you cannot defeat bio-weapons, you can only defend against it. Finding the perpetrators is close to impossible, because it can be from anybody.

In a sense, we'll be running from bio-weapons our whole lives.



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:30 AM
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I was wondering this from long time & may be it might have been covered in other threads. What if some messile full of bio agent is fired at us? say may be 100 or 1000 & even if our messile defence system stops all of them. Bio agents will be all over in atmosphere. It can be more deadly or it can be prevented?



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 11:53 AM
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Actually, a missile is a bit simpler.

The one thing biological weapons cannot sustain is massive heat. As with all living, organic material, heat will destroy it. So if you're going to shoot a missile, you have to make sure the missile contains explosives capable of creating insane amounts of heat.

The problem is, these biological organisms are so small that some particles may in fact escape. Which is why it becomes even more necessary to make the explosion bigger and hotter.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
All this bio-warfare stuff is scary.


I think the biggest dilemma is that you cannot defeat bio-weapons, you can only defend against it. Finding the perpetrators is close to impossible, because it can be from anybody.

In a sense, we'll be running from bio-weapons our whole lives.


This is a reason why future warfare is in some ways extremely frightening.

You can find the perpetrators, though. When you create an organism there are patterns within it that can be identified. For example investigators nailed Ft. Deitrich, MD as the origin of the Anthrax virus that went through the USPS in very little time. Once the investigation hit that place it died quick because politics became involved.

So essentially, next time the guys in charge decide to take out another uppity president who wants to change things to quickly, they won't have to pull a Dallas, they can just provide a little bug tied to that person's genes.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 02:15 AM
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You can read about it in the COX REPORT, I have the declassified version, and it mentions all the methods and target areas that the chinese are interested in.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by TACHYON
You can read about it in the COX REPORT, I have the declassified version, and it mentions all the methods and target areas that the chinese are interested in.


Excellent. Thanks I will check it out


[edit on 4-9-2004 by FredT]



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by
Actually, a missile is a bit simpler.

The one thing biological weapons cannot sustain is massive heat. As with all living, organic material, heat will destroy it.


- That's true but only - as with just about everything - to a point sweatmonicaIdo.

For instance -

Did you know that microbes from the deep ocean 'black smoker' vents are currently one of the reasons why the latest womens sanitary products can now be made so small, thin and absorbant?

Now if 'we' have already discovered that 'quality' about them......how much further on do you think the military might already be with them what with their ability to withstand 300'c as a starting point?

Maybe they aren't at all but then again.......?



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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863 project is put forward by a group of scientists who were worrying the bigger and bigger gap of the science and technology between China and western countries. The aim is want to narrow or even catch up the world's technology front. It is also the beginning that China want to evetually get rid of Soviet influnece and introduce in western's design idea and design methodology and design standard. The project stated 6 strategic front that China want to maste. I happened to attended the project when I was in graduate school. Honestly speaking, the thread here just make me laugh because I did not even know that bio-weapon has been list in this project.

863 is not miltary project, main aiming to get strategic advantage. How to define the strategic advantage depends on you. Just an example of Japan, Japan can not develop military technology because of their peace constitution, but their technology is so advanced in some area that makes them has huge strategic advantage even it is not mean a real weapon. Any body can image that if they use these tech in military it will be deadly.

By the way, project 863 is alreay over. Chinese scientists are debating what they should do in 963. There have more new field add in, like nano-technology, bio-technology or something. But I have no idea of what fields will be emphasized and be listed as must maste area.


E_T

posted on Sep, 5 2004 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Actually, a missile is a bit simpler.

The one thing biological weapons cannot sustain is massive heat. As with all living, organic material, heat will destroy it. So if you're going to shoot a missile, you have to make sure the missile contains explosives capable of creating insane amounts of heat.

The problem is, these biological organisms are so small that some particles may in fact escape. Which is why it becomes even more necessary to make the explosion bigger and hotter.

Napalm would work against bio-weapons.

Also they're developing bombs for destroying BC weapons which just produce lot of heat instead of explosion.



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