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Police Shooting Of Nonthreatening Dog
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The story about the cop shooting the dog locked in the bathroom is even more disturbing. That was intentional discharge of a weapon with the intent
to kill a living thing and not under the auspices of self defense if the officer created the situation. Kind of reminds me of the story of Billy the
Kid who complemented a stranger on his pistol and asked if he could take it out of his belt for him to examine....when the fellow started to comply by
slowly drawing his gun, The Kid shot him dead and then yelled to bystanders, "You saw it - he drew first!" Obviously the work of a psychopath and I
see parallels in some of the police killings of dogs. FWIW, If you fight a police dog that is biting you expect to be charged with "assaulting an
officer". Yes, K-9 animals are considered as official police officers. Well I could construe that logic to classify my dog as a member of my family
and if someone (anyone) tries to kill it without justification (including not having business on the property) then I could justify defending the
family pet under a broad interpretation of the castle defense common law.
We had a prowler a few years ago and called 911....the officer came on the property and my then 6 mo old collie was with me and the officer put his hand on his taser (at least it wasnt his .40) and asked if he bites. I said no and he relaxed....but I wonder if my holding a loaded SPAS-12 had anything to do with it.
We had a prowler a few years ago and called 911....the officer came on the property and my then 6 mo old collie was with me and the officer put his hand on his taser (at least it wasnt his .40) and asked if he bites. I said no and he relaxed....but I wonder if my holding a loaded SPAS-12 had anything to do with it.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
I just want to reiterate what the story was with this event, and how it was twisted.
You know, there's an old saying, “You'll never find a guilty man in prison”.
With the advent of the internet, and the ability of people to tell their side of the story, we are finding more often that people post their story, and they do it in a manner that is distorting the facts in their favor. That may be innocently the way people recall the event, but more importantly it can be because they are trying to start a public furor to sway public opinion preceding a legal case or settlement.
So why is this particular story getting legs almost two years after it happened?
Is it because there is a pending settlement or litigation between the owner and the police?
Just to be clear on this photo:
Here is the statement from a former officer at the scene, but not involved in the shooting:
NBC Washington: Dog Shot During Adams Morgan Day Festival
A former metropolitan police officer witnessed the shooting. “We were no more than 20 feet away when two dogs got into it," said Tony De Passe. "The officers ran over to try to restrain one of the dogs. By now one dog came loose and bit a man. He fell to the ground. The officer then put his hand on the dog’s throat and tried to restrain the dog. The dog spun around and bit the officer on his hand."
Now don't even try and tell me that this picture was not chosen specifically to sway public opinion that the poor trapped dog was executed after being subdued by the mean looking officer. When the reality is that the dog continued to struggle, bit the officer, was trapped into some type of area, then shot.
Do you see the problem here folks?
Some of these cop hater stories are patently misleading, and are probably written that way for a reason... I'm starting to wonder if there are law groups hiring folks to post these blogs then burst them out just before a hearing.
I recommend that anyone reading a story like this, that is obviously intended to hit the emotions, do a bit of searching around first to get the OTHER side of the story as well. Take a name from the article and post it in google with the present year in front of it, then see what other legitimate news sources have to say about what really happened and what the updated story actually is.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by defcon5
That officer appears to have some very good dog skills. The dog is restrained at that point, and the officer seems very much in control, but 1/2 second later it might have looked way different! It might have shown the dog twisting in his own skin and biting the officer.
The only part that concerns me is the fact that the dog was shot after it was supposedly in some type of enclosure. If that is true, then that is an execution. Also, from the way I read it, the officer shown in the picture is not the officer that shot the dog. That officer came along after the fact and shot the dog in the enclosure.
As I said earlier though, 100% of the blame falls on the dog's owner. The department may need to look into the second cops use of his firearm, and maybe he isn't cut out to carry a firearm in tense situations, but the dog's death is on the owner for letting it get that far.
That officer appears to have some very good dog skills. The dog is restrained at that point, and the officer seems very much in control, but 1/2 second later it might have looked way different! It might have shown the dog twisting in his own skin and biting the officer.
The only part that concerns me is the fact that the dog was shot after it was supposedly in some type of enclosure. If that is true, then that is an execution. Also, from the way I read it, the officer shown in the picture is not the officer that shot the dog. That officer came along after the fact and shot the dog in the enclosure.
As I said earlier though, 100% of the blame falls on the dog's owner. The department may need to look into the second cops use of his firearm, and maybe he isn't cut out to carry a firearm in tense situations, but the dog's death is on the owner for letting it get that far.
reply to post by getreadyalready
Starred your post.
When my dainty lady English Pointer (45 lbs) and our now new little Jacairn Terrier (20 lbs / with a terrier attitude) go outside in our completely fenced in back yard, I go out there right with them.
They go for their daily walk every day as well - on leash.
I see your point, but I still believe the cop could have, should have not shot the dog. The dog was on a long animal control pole collar. He could have even been tranquilized.
Did you not see the dog laying down, tail wagging in a submissive position right before the cop pointed the gun to his / her head and point blank execution style, shot hit??????
On one hand, I agree. I myself am a good responsible dog owner but that cop did not handle this video taped incident correctly.
And dogs do occasionally get loose.
That dog was no longer loose, he was on a animal control pole / collar. They should have tranquilized him/her, and loaded him/her into a cage and taken the dog to a shelter.
Sort of wish I could take that star back.
Dogs do get loose. My little terrier now I have to go down and stay close by him in our fenced in back yard to ensure he doesn't figure a way out.
I'm so sick and tired of animals, children and the elderly being treated with no mercy.
Mercy, just a little mercy, a little kindness, a little understanding.
That cop, in my opinion was more of a beast then the dog he murdered.
He had the dog on a pole/collared - the dog at the end was in a submissive position and yet the cop simply shot him.
So for everyone out there, I did a piece a while back titled, A Dog Is A Serious Commitment www.abovetopsecret.com...
Besides trains, cars, dangerous predators now you really have to make sure you are committed to making sure your canine family member doesn't get loose - we now have cops that don't call animal control, they don't tranquilize a loose pet, they simply can and will shoot them dead.
Heartless............for the third time in the dog's defense, he was on a animal control collar/pole and at that point, legally, no longer a public threat.
The cop could not think of a more intelligent or humane way to deal with this situation.
He took the lazy and heartless way out.
So if that had been your dog, that video you saw would have been a okay with you?
Feel sorry for your dog.
if you own a pitbull, it comes with responsibilities, and whatever that dog does, or whatever is done to that dog falls squarely on the owner's shoulders.
Starred your post.
When my dainty lady English Pointer (45 lbs) and our now new little Jacairn Terrier (20 lbs / with a terrier attitude) go outside in our completely fenced in back yard, I go out there right with them.
They go for their daily walk every day as well - on leash.
I see your point, but I still believe the cop could have, should have not shot the dog. The dog was on a long animal control pole collar. He could have even been tranquilized.
Did you not see the dog laying down, tail wagging in a submissive position right before the cop pointed the gun to his / her head and point blank execution style, shot hit??????
On one hand, I agree. I myself am a good responsible dog owner but that cop did not handle this video taped incident correctly.
And dogs do occasionally get loose.
That dog was no longer loose, he was on a animal control pole / collar. They should have tranquilized him/her, and loaded him/her into a cage and taken the dog to a shelter.
Sort of wish I could take that star back.
Dogs do get loose. My little terrier now I have to go down and stay close by him in our fenced in back yard to ensure he doesn't figure a way out.
I'm so sick and tired of animals, children and the elderly being treated with no mercy.
Mercy, just a little mercy, a little kindness, a little understanding.
That cop, in my opinion was more of a beast then the dog he murdered.
He had the dog on a pole/collared - the dog at the end was in a submissive position and yet the cop simply shot him.
So for everyone out there, I did a piece a while back titled, A Dog Is A Serious Commitment www.abovetopsecret.com...
Besides trains, cars, dangerous predators now you really have to make sure you are committed to making sure your canine family member doesn't get loose - we now have cops that don't call animal control, they don't tranquilize a loose pet, they simply can and will shoot them dead.
Heartless............for the third time in the dog's defense, he was on a animal control collar/pole and at that point, legally, no longer a public threat.
The cop could not think of a more intelligent or humane way to deal with this situation.
He took the lazy and heartless way out.
So if that had been your dog, that video you saw would have been a okay with you?
Feel sorry for your dog.
edit on 12-4-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)
reply to post by 8ILlBILl8
Good observation and reply.
Does seem like they more and more as each decade goes by are playing more tough mean guy vs. Andy of Mayberry, "to protect and serve".
It seems like they are trying to use a scare tactic against the public. They want you to fear the police.
Good observation and reply.
Does seem like they more and more as each decade goes by are playing more tough mean guy vs. Andy of Mayberry, "to protect and serve".
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Originally posted by ofhumandescent
I see your point, but I still believe the cop could have, should have not shot the dog. The dog was on a long animal control pole collar. He could have even been tranquilized.
No, he wasn't on a pole collar, where are you getting this from?
Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Did you not see the dog laying down, tail wagging in a submissive position right before the cop pointed the gun to his / her head and point blank execution style, shot hit??????
Um... No...
And I don't think anyone else saw this either, as there is no video of it that I can find.
Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Heartless............for the third time in the dog's defense, he was on a animal control collar/pole and at that point, legally, no longer a public threat.
Are you talking about a different story perchance?
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by ofhumandescent
Of course I wouldn't have been ok with it, but I would have accepted my part of the responsibility. I haven't seen any video of the dog lying down wagging its tail, was it linked in this thread? (Also, for the record, pitbulls wag their tail during the whole attack. It is no indication of submission.) If that is true, as I said earlier, if the dog was restrained and no longer a threat, then it becomes an execution, and the officer needs to be civilly liable, and he needs to no longer carry a firearm. Even so, people who own pitbulls understand the public reaction if that dog gets loose, and especially if that dog attacks another dog or god-forbid a person! The dog is always going to be euthanized, and the owner is probably going to be sued or charged with a crime. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a known risk of owning the dog.
My pitbull actually ran off part of a SWAT team, and was left unscathed, and was complimented for his actions by the members of the team. I have posted the story on ATS several times, here is a short version. He was an angry, 90lb pitbull, protecting his yard, and protecting his family which included my pregnant wife. He did his duty, he was in his own yard, and luckily for everyone involved the police were extremely restrained and professional. Had the police over-reacted to the situation and killed my dog in his own yard, then none of you would have ever heard about this story and I would still be in the process of serving a cold dish of revenge. Instead, it was a great story, from a great police force and a great dog.
No need to feel sorry for my dog at all. Except, he did commit suicide by Doritos bag at the age of 15. It was comical and tragic, but he was nearing that time where hard decisions were going to have to be made, and at least he went out peacefully at home and doing something he loved.
ETA:
Went back to read the original source. No pole-collar, no pen. The dog was charging the officer in a stairwell, and the dog was a rescue dog, so it's temperment was iffy from the start.
So if that had been your dog, that video you saw would have been a okay with you?
Feel sorry for your dog.
Of course I wouldn't have been ok with it, but I would have accepted my part of the responsibility. I haven't seen any video of the dog lying down wagging its tail, was it linked in this thread? (Also, for the record, pitbulls wag their tail during the whole attack. It is no indication of submission.) If that is true, as I said earlier, if the dog was restrained and no longer a threat, then it becomes an execution, and the officer needs to be civilly liable, and he needs to no longer carry a firearm. Even so, people who own pitbulls understand the public reaction if that dog gets loose, and especially if that dog attacks another dog or god-forbid a person! The dog is always going to be euthanized, and the owner is probably going to be sued or charged with a crime. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a known risk of owning the dog.
My pitbull actually ran off part of a SWAT team, and was left unscathed, and was complimented for his actions by the members of the team. I have posted the story on ATS several times, here is a short version. He was an angry, 90lb pitbull, protecting his yard, and protecting his family which included my pregnant wife. He did his duty, he was in his own yard, and luckily for everyone involved the police were extremely restrained and professional. Had the police over-reacted to the situation and killed my dog in his own yard, then none of you would have ever heard about this story and I would still be in the process of serving a cold dish of revenge. Instead, it was a great story, from a great police force and a great dog.
No need to feel sorry for my dog at all. Except, he did commit suicide by Doritos bag at the age of 15. It was comical and tragic, but he was nearing that time where hard decisions were going to have to be made, and at least he went out peacefully at home and doing something he loved.
edit on 12-4-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
ETA:
Went back to read the original source. No pole-collar, no pen. The dog was charging the officer in a stairwell, and the dog was a rescue dog, so it's temperment was iffy from the start.
Jacob Kishter, commander of the 3rd Police District, said that once the officer pushed the dog down the stairwell, "the dog immediately turns and runs at the officer aggressively." The officer, 25-year-veteran Scott Fike, fired one shot, fatally wounding the dog, which police described as a pit bull.
edit on 12-4-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
reply to post by defcon5
Yes, different post. :/
Video here: I got my posts mixed up, I was upset over the post below.
*** Warning graphic at end.
ATS post here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
seasoul's response / warning would also be my response - my dogs are small and would not be considered threatening, but my dogs are considered members of my family.
Bad, aggressive dogs are usually the result of either a dog being born brain damaged or abused by his/her human guardian.
A dog protecting his/her property and considered a danger, should be trained to stop and drop on command. And like I have always said, dogs should be watched closely, not just left to roam. It's a crazy, dangerous world out there.
Sorry for the mix up...........brain freeze / senior moment. (We need a embarrassed face icon for the smiley choices) and thanks.
I still say, couldn't someone have simply used a tranquilizer gun or taser????
Getready is right though, in this case, this particular post it was a most unfortunate situation.
The dog in the opening thread for this post did bite someone.
Are you talking about a different story perchance?
Yes, different post. :/
Video here: I got my posts mixed up, I was upset over the post below.
*** Warning graphic at end.
ATS post here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
seasoul's response / warning would also be my response - my dogs are small and would not be considered threatening, but my dogs are considered members of my family.
Bad, aggressive dogs are usually the result of either a dog being born brain damaged or abused by his/her human guardian.
A dog protecting his/her property and considered a danger, should be trained to stop and drop on command. And like I have always said, dogs should be watched closely, not just left to roam. It's a crazy, dangerous world out there.
Sorry for the mix up...........brain freeze / senior moment. (We need a embarrassed face icon for the smiley choices) and thanks.
I still say, couldn't someone have simply used a tranquilizer gun or taser????
Getready is right though, in this case, this particular post it was a most unfortunate situation.
The dog in the opening thread for this post did bite someone.
edit on 12-4-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)
reply to post by v1rtu0s0
What the #?
What the hell is wrong with this cop?
Call the damn dog catcher, that's what a civilized society does.
What the #?
What the hell is wrong with this cop?
Call the damn dog catcher, that's what a civilized society does.
edit on 12-4-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by ofhumandescent
That video is disgusting. That appears to be a very good dog, and a dog that is familiar and obedient to someone, and he was obviously trying to comply, but the pole-collar was scaring him. I think just before he was shot, he was probably growling or snarling, but he was under control and didn't need shot. That scene should not have lasted 7 minutes. The cops were completely out of their element and didn't look like they had ever seen a dog before in their life. The people inside any one of those surrounding houses could probably have walked out and called that dog into the house and given it a hot dog and a drink of water and had a friend for life.
If that was my dog, that guy would need to relocate.
Also, for the record, that dog was not a full-blooded pit, but I'm sure the headlines at the time all called it a dangerous pit bull.
That video is disgusting. That appears to be a very good dog, and a dog that is familiar and obedient to someone, and he was obviously trying to comply, but the pole-collar was scaring him. I think just before he was shot, he was probably growling or snarling, but he was under control and didn't need shot. That scene should not have lasted 7 minutes. The cops were completely out of their element and didn't look like they had ever seen a dog before in their life. The people inside any one of those surrounding houses could probably have walked out and called that dog into the house and given it a hot dog and a drink of water and had a friend for life.
If that was my dog, that guy would need to relocate.
Also, for the record, that dog was not a full-blooded pit, but I'm sure the headlines at the time all called it a dangerous pit bull.
edit on 12-4-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Ah...
That makes more sense now.
So I did some research into THAT story, and guess why its getting legs again after 2 years:
7KHQA: Owner files suit after officer shoots pet
January 23, 2012:
LAGRANGE, MO. -- The police officer who shot and killed a LaGrange man's dog is now at the center of a federal civil rights lawsuit.
The lawsuit filed Thursday by Marcus Mays stems from a March 31, 2010 incident that made national news when the video showing officer Doug Howell shooting the American Bulldog surfaced on YouTube.
Mr Mays is not exactly a saint in this, as a matter of fact , the above article mentions that he has been charged with at least one felony:
In June 2011, Mays was charged on one count of a felon in possession of a firearm. According to the indictment, Mays was in possession of a 9-millimeter caliber pistol and ammunition. Court records show Mays entered a guilty plea on Sept. 15, 2011, and will be sentenced on Feb. 22 in Davenport, Iowa.
He also didn't get the dog registered, and the neighbors had made complaints about the dog being a nuisance and aggressive:
Mays was fined $130 in June 2010 following the shooting incident for not registering his dog with the city of LaGrange and for failing to leash or muzzle a vicious dog.
Of course there is no “official” listing of the dog, because the dog was unregistered:
A neighbor of Mays, Frances Hamilton, testified that the animal had previously chased her husband.
The officers were responding to a call from LaGrange resident Mary Coleman that the dog had acted threateningly toward her and her daughter as they walked to a school bus stop.
“It was growling at my six-year-old,” Coleman testified. “I wanted my kid to be safe and myself to be safe.”
Mays didn't register the dog because he had already been charged with animal cruelty and was barred from owning a dog:
LaGrange dog owner vows to fight for law changes
Curl pointed out that Mays had pleaded guilty to animal abuse in 2007 and had been ordered not to own pets for two years.
Additionally being a small town, the police handle animal control calls, at the time of the incident there was no dedicated “animal control”:
There are no animal control officers in LaGrange or Lewis County, as sheriff's deputies and city police officers routinely handle animal control calls.
In a rural area like that, its not that uncommon for officer to simply destroy stray animals. As it was unregistered, it was just another stray to them, and they have no idea if its sick or rabid. This practice, of course, goes back the days when a rogue animal could cause serious financial damage to a farmer.
So again, this is not as straight forward as it is being made out to be. I'm defending them, simply saying that you should always check further into these stories then what you get from a single video or source. There are often extenuating circumstances.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Originally posted by burdman30ott6The prevelant fear of the police isn't a creation of the police themselves, it is a creation of fearmongering by people who have legitimately run afoul of the law and rationalize their issues by blaming all of their problems on those tasked with defending that same law.
This is delusional...at BEST.
That is all.
Big he man kneeling on a dog.
Big human proving his 'I'm higher than you in tecnonolgy'
Don't get me going on animal and children rights...............they are THE SILENT VICTIMS.
No rights, no voice, no because they have no vote, no say so, no power.
Those that have no money, no power no say so are ignored and that folks is the way it is.
Big human proving his 'I'm higher than you in tecnonolgy'
Don't get me going on animal and children rights...............they are THE SILENT VICTIMS.
No rights, no voice, no because they have no vote, no say so, no power.
Those that have no money, no power no say so are ignored and that folks is the way it is.
Originally posted by ofhumandescent
Don't get me going on animal and children rights...............they are THE SILENT VICTIMS.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Are you trying to say that my cheeseburger has rights equal to that of a human?
I think that you'll find that most people, and even most religions, disagree with you there.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
reply to post by defcon5
That is a touchy issue.
Personally, I love a good steak, but then again, I wouldn't want to see someone out torturing a cow just for fun. I have been to many meat processors, before the little bolt gun, when they still had a guy on a pole with a .22 shooting each cow in the head and pushing it over onto a conveyor belt while the rest stood in line and waited their turn. It was a pretty sick thing to witness, but I still love my steak!
I'm also a fan of tradition, and there are many cliche's that people don't give much thought these days. "There are many ways to skin a cat." Where do folks suppose that comes from? It used to be pretty entertaining for young boys to skin cats! Hang them from fence posts. Tie their tails together and toss them over a clothes line and watch them kill each other to get lose, etc., etc. These days, that would be a felony! Back then it was just good fun.
If everything alive has equal rights, where does it stop? If a dog is alive, then so is a cow, and so is a potato.
I once had a "karma-free" meal with some Hare Krishnas. Nothing had to die in making the meal. No meat, no roots, etc. It consisted completely of things the plants gave up willingly with no harm to themselves, and it was actually a very good meal!
That is a touchy issue.
Personally, I love a good steak, but then again, I wouldn't want to see someone out torturing a cow just for fun. I have been to many meat processors, before the little bolt gun, when they still had a guy on a pole with a .22 shooting each cow in the head and pushing it over onto a conveyor belt while the rest stood in line and waited their turn. It was a pretty sick thing to witness, but I still love my steak!
I'm also a fan of tradition, and there are many cliche's that people don't give much thought these days. "There are many ways to skin a cat." Where do folks suppose that comes from? It used to be pretty entertaining for young boys to skin cats! Hang them from fence posts. Tie their tails together and toss them over a clothes line and watch them kill each other to get lose, etc., etc. These days, that would be a felony! Back then it was just good fun.
If everything alive has equal rights, where does it stop? If a dog is alive, then so is a cow, and so is a potato.
I once had a "karma-free" meal with some Hare Krishnas. Nothing had to die in making the meal. No meat, no roots, etc. It consisted completely of things the plants gave up willingly with no harm to themselves, and it was actually a very good meal!
reply to post by Bonkrh
I'd give it back at a later date, and to something held dear by the officer.
I'd give it back at a later date, and to something held dear by the officer.
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