Ancient Cave in the Moravian Karst Still Stumps Archaeologists: (ever heard of this place?)

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posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Was it a funeral sacrifice of mammoth proportions, the vicious slaughter of a merchant caravan or a massive explosion of flour dust during a harvest ceremony? More than a century after it was first excavated, archaeologists are still wondering what happened in Bull Rock (Byci skala) cave in the Blansko area of south Moravia 2,600 years ago. Bones and jewelry dating back 2,600 years, discovered in the cave in 1872, have mystified scientists ever since


NOTE: Still having issues with this computer and ATS Uploads. To see the skull which has a VERY detailed metal/gold head dress on it-please go to the source article. Take a look at that puppy and tell me what you think!


In 1872, Czech archaeologist Jindrich Wankel unearthed 40 dismembered skeletons in the anteroom of the cave. On a stone altar was a pair of women's arms hacked off at the elbow, and a skull cleaved neatly down the middle. Deeper in the cave was a magnificent chariot with the charred remains of a man still inside. Strewn among the bodies were hundreds of bronze and amber ornaments of exotic design and, deeper in the cave, stood an Iron Age forge.

Wankel assumed he'd found the relics of the funeral of a chieftain from the Hallstatt (Early Iron Age) era, complete with virgin sacrifices. For more than 100 years, archaeologists took his conclusions at face value. Then, in the 1970s, they took another look at the artifacts and received quite a shock.

Wankel's "funeral chariot" was actually different parts of three completely unrelated vehicles. The skeletons were not from young females - virgin or otherwise - but from men and women ranging in age from 30 to 45. Moreover, there was no proof the victims had died violently.


Source: archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com...

The article goes on to discuss three main theories as to what happened in the cave at that time. All three are interesting and plausable. But, that is why I bring it to ATS for review.

What do you think happened here? What else can you add to the story/mystery. I don't know enough about the Bronze Age but I think once you see the pics of the jewelry found..... these folks were masters of it. Maybe past mastering it.... Out of this world maybe.....?

As you read-if you read the whole article, the NAZI's didn't have any issues/problems with using the cave for their war efforts. I wonder what they found and carted away that we'll never know about-most likely.

Here is a little video I found about the BULL CAVE:


Info From Wikipedia:

Býčí skála Cave (in Czech Býčí skála, in English The Bull Rock Cave) is part of the second longest cave system in the Czech Republic. It is also famous for archaeological findings. The cave is located in the central part of Moravian Karst, in Josefovské Valley (Josefovské údolí) between the town Adamov and village Křtiny. Together with the cave system Rudické propadání Býčí skála forms the second longest cave system in the country after the Amatérská Cave. Its known length is over 13 km.

The entrance to the cave was always known. First written mention comes from 1669. During 1867-1873 the part named Předsíně was explored by archaeologist Jindřich Wankel who discovered a Paleolithic settlement from around 100,000 - 10,000 BCE. Later, a statuette of a bronze bull was found and starting in 1872 a large Hallstatt culture site had been excavated. The site contained animal and material offerings, crops, textiles, ceramic and sheet-metal vessels, jewellery, glass and amber beads.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

I think as they dig more that we are going to learn that the whole area was far more populated and advanced that we previously thought. my 2 cents.





edit on 11/2/2011 by anon72 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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these type of findings are so much more interesting to me than possible UFO sightings. I always get the feeling there is so much we arent even close to knowing about our past.

as for this cave i hope they pull all the findings out and continue excavating it and make it all public so we can all be wowed by everything there.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Here's the picture of that skull. The headdress is pretty impressive, amazing detail and craftsmanship.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by Meekbot2000
 


Agreed, this is something we can hold in our hands, something real.
And it has been there for a long time.
It makes you wonder, if we dug down 500 feet or so at any place what we may find.
An old dead civilization with technology would be a neat find.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Wow thank you for that. There is so much mystery surrounding the past and what people done... I wonder if we will ever no the truth in this case..



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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As far as caves and cave dwelling go...

They had a great one.

Over 13 miles of caves (5 total) in that mountain.

Man I wish I could time travel. Stay right near there and go back to the it's beginnings and see what happens as it moves forward in time.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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No ATSers who are knowledgable about this topic area?

I find that hard to believe that there isn't one who would have some 1st hand info/experience with this place.

Hmmmm.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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had no idea that this find existed until now

I find it odd that the headress fits the skull so tightly since there should be some looseness to it
no that the flesh has rotted away,,like there is in the ring with a gap between it and the finger bone

It's pretty though



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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This old site reminds me of the great death pit of Ur




Mesanepada was the king of Ur in about 2675 BCE who founded the 1st Dynasty of Ur and made Ur the capital of Sumer. His grave site was the famous death pit PG1237 where over 73 bodies are buried along with their king.


The murder pit

Another link to more drawing of the death pit
edit on 2/11/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by anon72
 


The man that originally found this cave in my opinion would have had a better idea of what has happened then someone reviewing his data a hundred years later. I did not go to the pictures but am assuming they are just pictures of the artifacts and not the site as originally found.

The fact the new team says the bones are mixed and show no signs of violence is in complete contradiction to the original find, a half a skull, two arms hacked off at the elbows on an alter. I would go with the original eyes on scene for the truest assessment. Its like you tell a friend a story and have him pass it on and so on eventually the story gets back to you totally different from what you said.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by Noey777
 




I would go with the original eyes on scene for the truest assessment. Its like you tell a friend a story and have him pass it on and so on eventually the story gets back to you totally different from what you said.


Excellent point my good man.

I can only say that the biggest problem would be the communicating between the times. One man's junk is another mans treasure.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by anon72
 


Sounds like it could be the remnants of a battle that someone gathered to honor the dead.



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Of all the history we do know I would say only amounts to less than .01% of what did happen and we are most likely wrong on most of that. We have a hard enough time knowing what happened last week much less countless years ago. The farther back you go the less we know and the higher the error factor goes. All we can do is take what we can find and make our best guess. I often wonder just how much of what we do today will be known in a thousand years or even 10,000 years. Will archaeologists of the future even know what a cell phone is if they find the remains of one or any common item of today for that matter. History has a bad habit of disappearing.



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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nice find
Interesting ring and spectacular head piece



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by anon72
 


Bookmarking for later.



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 01:48 AM
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The original burying place of the skeletons has to be close. This has to be found to go much further.
The fact that there was an iron forge, means the possibility of a fire and/or asphyxiation with the higher heat and oxygen requirements to melt iron vs bronze, which was just being replaced with the iron weapons and tools at the time. Perhaps they had very little experience with an iron forge.

It is also possible that predators got into the cave after the accident, and that is why the bodies were all torn up and scattered. Can they tell if the forge was being used at the time? Like the presence of partially melted metals or tools in the forge as they would be when it was operating? Obviously, the venting or lack thereof for the forge would be something that has been studied. Cool Find OP, S&F for ya, and now looking for other posts on this interesting subject.



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by Freedom_is_Slavery
 


for such a long time ago the jewellery craftsmanship is incredible, that ring looks to be flawless! Ive never heard of this place. Am going to do some research later.
Cheers for the excellent post



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by anon72
No ATSers who are knowledgable about this topic area?

I find that hard to believe that there isn't one who would have some 1st hand info/experience with this place.

Hmmmm.

I visited Moravian karst few times but never was in Byci skala cave. It is also first time I heard about this mysterious archeological findings - I thought till now that I'm aware of main archeological sights in my country.
Now I'll read more about it. If I'll find something interesting, I'll translate it for fellow ATSers.



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by Freedom_is_Slavery
 


The ring and headband look Celtic so his first idea if them being Hallstatt is probably correct. I think they're celts



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by jlv70
 


Is it just me or is the skull misshaped? The back of the skull seems unusually large. I remember seeing some skulls that were shaped like this but can't remember where they were right now. Egypt?

Was this how the skull and headdress/crown were originally found or were they seperate and then combined because they happen to fit?
edit on 11/3/2011 by LuFri because: (no reason given)






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