Williams X-Jet: Any info on Soviet counterparts?, page 1

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Topic started on 2-11-2011 @ 05:01 AM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

The Williams X Jet

This device is a jet-powered levitation vehicle for a single soldier. I've seen almost the same thing in the game Metal Gear Solid 3 (set in 60s USSR) years ago and I've always been interested in finding out more about it and if it was fielded.

Someone I know told me that they once saw old Soviet footage from the 60s of one of these vehicles in a testing phase (it was authentic video that his dad collected from somewhere so I don't have it to show). I know that the Soviets were developing some pretty interesting stuff back in those days like the Hind A so it sounds plausible to me.

So does anyone know anything more about this technology (US/Soviet/elsewhere)? Any videos to share?

reply posted on 2-11-2011 @ 07:14 AM by Aliensun

An interesting concept but with a extreme flaw in the original models that perhaps can now be easily remedied with a computer assisted stabilzing device such as used on the two-wheeled Segway scooters.

The flaw was was that the pilot had to literally balance himself and the unit on a single column of jet exhaust. It is easy to see that there would be a constant thread of a tipping point of no return at every instant with no chance of recovery.

A Segway-type of system could remove that balancing task from the pilot. One can imagine a jet exhaust split into four angled vents with internal shutters to individually shift portions of the thrust in the desired direction to maintain stability and control the direction of motion.

reply posted on 2-11-2011 @ 10:58 AM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

reply to post by Aliensun

Yeah, computer stabilizing systems would be an improvement.

Officially, these types of vehicles didn't go very far into production. Reason being was that it was felt that helicopters could fulfill the same role, plus much more.

Personally, I think a small, one-seater VTOL vehicle such as these could be very useful for moving around effeciently in tough terrain or even water. I've heard some stories about an obscure US model designed for tactical insertions for special ops. Apparently they are diamond-shaped (makes sense to enclose the unit, good for better electronic interface, stealth and shielding)... but I really don't know much about them.

reply posted on 3-11-2011 @ 05:53 AM by RichardPrice

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by Aliensun

Yeah, computer stabilizing systems would be an improvement.

Officially, these types of vehicles didn't go very far into production. Reason being was that it was felt that helicopters could fulfill the same role, plus much more.

Personally, I think a small, one-seater VTOL vehicle such as these could be very useful for moving around effeciently in tough terrain or even water. I've heard some stories about an obscure US model designed for tactical insertions for special ops. Apparently they are diamond-shaped (makes sense to enclose the unit, good for better electronic interface, stealth and shielding)... but I really don't know much about them.

The problem with single seat approaches to the problem is that rarely does anyone in the military move around in singles - even spec ops move around in squads, and when they split up they don't want a noisy vehicle giving their movements away.

reply posted on 6-11-2011 @ 12:51 AM by allenidaho

I don't think the soviets ever experimented with flying platforms. The US did quite a bit during the 50's, 60's and 70's. But it didn't really go anywhere.

reply posted on 6-11-2011 @ 03:20 AM by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The Williams X Jet

This device is a jet-powered levitation vehicle for a single soldier. I've seen almost the same thing in the game Metal Gear Solid 3 (set in 60s USSR) years ago and I've always been interested in finding out more about it and if it was fielded.

Someone I know told me that they once saw old Soviet footage from the 60s of one of these vehicles in a testing phase (it was authentic video that his dad collected from somewhere so I don't have it to show). I know that the Soviets were developing some pretty interesting stuff back in those days like the Hind A so it sounds plausible to me.

So does anyone know anything more about this technology (US/Soviet/elsewhere)? Any videos to share?

Dimitri, just for my own curiosity, I have a question....

In the grand scheme of cold war weaponry innovations like nuclear powered cruise missiles and hyper-sonic bomber interceptors...

Does up-armoring an existing, mass produced MI-8 utilitarian air frame in an effort to adapt the American theory of air mobile warfare with 1960's Soviet infantry doctrine really constitute "interesting enough stuff" to make the non-sequitur between an armored flying tractor and breakthrough innovations like practical, individual lift devices?

Secondly, keeping in mind that Metal Gear Solid is a make believe game and has no basis in historical fact whatsoever, I believe this is the source of the rumored object in question?

The flying platform was originally designed in the United States of America due to the rising desire of VTOL aircraft before helicopters were used to a large scale.

Its intended uses were as artillery corps impact observations, reconnaissance, patrols, and transporting military personnel to trouble spots.

An initial prototype was developed in 1954, and a successful maiden voyage happened a year afterwards. However, despite the success of its maiden voyage, the test trials had limited success, and because of this as well as it going beyond the planned use of them, the project was scrapped.

Soviet scientist Aleksandr Leonovitch Granin managed to somehow procure the specs on the flying platforms and take over its development, also perfecting the design.

Metal Gear Wiki/Flying platform

I now have a much better idea about where some of the odd military idea's regarding the Soviet Union I have seen posted from time to time are from....

In case you were wondering, Aleksandr Leonovitch Granin was not a real Soviet scientist either..

Am I the only one that finds humor in the idea of cold war Soviet technological parity only existing in parallel universes based on video games, comic books and in Canadian undergraduate history books?

Regardless, to answer your question....

AFAIK, all of the flying platform research was western.

Perhaps Soviet industrial espionage efforts into the problems complicating western attempts combined with the military's lukewarm interest were sufficient to discourage any of the 50's/60's Soviet Aerospace design bureau's to follow suit, perhaps the Soviet engineers recognized the concept early for the boondoggle it was or, my preferred theory, that it takes a decadent capitalist economy to have the excess surplus of funding to divert for serious research into fanciful whims that will most likley not pan out.

The western attempts were ambitious and varied but ultimately futile beginning with the De Lackner DH-4 "Aerocycle" which had an obvious need and room for improvement...

The Benson B-12 Skyway was a second, clearly short lived approach...

The most fully realized design was the Hiller VZ-1 Pawnee.

YouTube Link

It had some interest for a short while and saw development into a few prototypes but was ultimately declined due to a combination of control difficulty and general impracticality.

Of notable mention during the 50's and 60's was the exploration and subsequent abandonment of the "air jeep" concept.

The only other noteworthy example I am aware of is the 70's/80's tech X-Jet previously cited in the OP.

The Flying Platforms & Jeeps

Williams International X-Jet and other Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) systems

Not quite a one man hovercraft, however here is a uniquely Soviet design some may be unfamiliar with that saw no western counterpart, would look great in a video game and was actually produced....

YouTube Link

Oddly, in an interesting parallel to the now defunct "evil empire", the Iranian Navy has recently unveiled a.... unique interpretation of the GEV... great minds do think alike!

Iran unveils squadrons of flying boats

Iran has announced its intention to mass produce vessels that serve virtually no conventional military purpose, that are too small and too lightly armed to be significant in a conventional battle and that will be controlled not by Iran’s Navy, but by a naval contingent of its fanatical Revolutionary Guards

I hope this helps.... :roll

edit on 6-11-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: Sp

reply posted on 6-11-2011 @ 06:23 AM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Drunkenparrot-
Dimitri, just for my own curiosity, I have a question....

In the grand scheme of cold war weaponry innovations like nuclear powered cruise missiles and hyper-sonic bomber interceptors...

Does up-armoring an existing, mass produced MI-8 utilitarian air frame in an effort to adapt the American theory of air mobile warfare with 1960's Soviet infantry doctrine really constitute "interesting enough stuff" to make the non-sequitur between an armored flying tractor and breakthrough innovations like practical, individual lift devices?

Let me ask you something,

have you ever looked at a hill from the ground view, said it looks might damn easy to climb it... only to spend exhausting hours making it to the top, without equipment? I don't know where you grew up, but I grew up in a forest valley surrounded by mountains. I know what it is like to walk up and down rough bush terrain.

Sitting in an individual flying vehicle makes life much more simple in areas where you don't have convenient miles of paved roads or flat desert. It is also good for observability; even viewing things from a few feet above your current eye level provides a whole new perception of your surroundings.

Secondly, keeping in mind that Metal Gear Solid is a make believe game and has no basis in historical fact whatsoever, I believe this is the source of the rumored object in question?

So your whole post is an attempt to make me out to be an idiot because I mentioned a video game in my opening post? I kinda figured someone would do this, since it's not original in the least.

In case you were wondering, Aleksandr Leonovitch Granin was not a real Soviet scientist either..

GEE, REALLY? I didn't know that. Thank you for putting me in my place

Am I the only one that finds humor in the idea of cold war Soviet technological parity only existing in parallel universes based on video games, comic books and in Canadian undergraduate history books?

Parallel universe? Comic books? Undergraduate history books? All things that I don't give a sh*t about. And trust me, I've been all around this universe thus I already have infinite pondering already, so I don't waste my time with corrupting my mindset with fantasies of what could be (parallel universes) instead of what is.

As for video games, I play them to kill the time, not because I immerse myself in all of their made up facts like you seem to think.

Regardless, to answer your question....

About time.

AFAIK, all of the flying platform research was western.

I highly doubt that.

I did mention in my opening post that one of my buddies saw a vintage Soviet government film of a test of one of their flying platforms. My friend was impressed by it, but was generally uninterested since he's more into politics than military hardware.

Plus I've heard many stories about Soviet flying platforms. I even heard about attempts in pre-Soviet Russia to build them (about the same time that Imperalist Russian scientists were trying to build rockets to enter space).

If this information was as easy to find as those pretty pictures that you posted, then I probably wouldn't have made this thread asking ATS members if they know anything about them.

I'm also quite aware of what Ekranoplanes/WiGs are. I fail to see why they are relevant to the topic at hand.

Oddly, in an interesting parallel to the now defunct "evil empire", the Iranian Navy has recently unveiled a.... unique interpretation of the GEV... great minds do think alike!

Recently? More like years ago. They're also based off of Russian designs of much smaller, and more modern, ekranoplanes than the so-called "Caspian Monster".

I don't really know if you were trying to be cute or pretentious in your reply, but it certainly appeared as the latter, just so you know.

reply posted on 6-11-2011 @ 07:21 AM by moebius

The only soviet flying platform I am aware of is "Turbolet".

See:
www.youtube.com...
www.ctrl-c.liu.se...

reply posted on 6-11-2011 @ 11:01 AM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by moebius
The only soviet flying platform I am aware of is "Turbolet".

See:
www.youtube.com...
www.ctrl-c.liu.se...

Wow, interesting stuff! Considering this was from the early days of helicopter designs, they probably branched out with this VTOL technology too while keeping it under wraps (Soviets took on flying disc designs after the Nazis, but I won't get into much since logic scares all the alien nuts on this site

).

I'm even more intrigued that they turned a MiG-15 into a VTOL prototype (I guess after looking into it, it's really the Yak-36). Good to see that the Soviets actually had their own VTOL program instead of just copying the Harrier concept for their Yak-141

reply posted on 7-11-2011 @ 04:57 AM by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

By the way, I have another reason for posting this thread and it involves the subject of this thread posted by another ATS member.

reply posted on 15-11-2011 @ 02:35 PM by arbiture

This would be close to an US Army project that at the time was coded as "artivan". A man portable flying device. We know from further investigation that the Russians got inside this project as well. Oh well, perhaps they could make it work, It was always so costly for us, after what seemed an inordinate period of time, we gave it a rest.

reply posted on 15-11-2011 @ 02:41 PM by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Aliensun
An interesting concept but with a extreme flaw in the original models that perhaps can now be easily remedied with a computer assisted stabilzing device such as used on the two-wheeled Segway scooters.

No amount of gyro stabilization is going to solve its second biggest flaw, which is that it elevates the soldier up out of the ground cover and makes him the perfect shooting gallery target.