Now that Greece is dragging us all under, what is going to happen?

reply to post by Required01


Hello, I would really like to see a link providing all that data you have posted, such as retirement at 50 years of age and 80% of the population being government employees, as both are far from true. But I'd like to see where you get your data from.
And as far as what you mentioned about a generous offer by the EU, too many politicians and journalists, including Wolfgang Schäuble, have stated about this haircut, that no country would accept it, unless it was forced to do so, because this package means that the country will stop making its own decisions (national sovereignty will no longer be national).

reply to post by woodwardjnr



Well said.

Stop with the propaganda titles! Your thread doesnt even deserve to be read! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or your just another shill take your pick.

Greece is not "taking us under". Greek people do "NOT" owe the money they are being asked to pay back. The money owed is from derivative fraud committed by the banks.

The banks owe the money so please explain why the greek people should pay it back???!!!

I bet you have no answer, so maybe you should research more.

reply to post by Required01


So . . . how different are the folks in Greece from the folks in Italy from the folks in the UK from the folks in the US . . .

All of those countries are terribly in debt because . . . . seriously . . . because????

Originally posted by GoalPoster
reply to post by Required01

 

So . . . how different are the folks in Greece from the folks in Italy from the folks in the UK from the folks in the US . . .

All of those countries are terribly in debt because . . . . seriously . . . because????

Can you please show me where i state that there not? EVERY country is responsable for there OWN financial problems! If you see yourself go bankrupt because you refuse to take actions and sort your in and out come, is it not you to blame instead of your bank, your utility company, etc who takes the money that is rightfully there's?

You are mis managing your financial book, your income and what you spend, so it is 100% your responsability for what happens. This is EXACTLY the same for countries.

Spending money on projects and WARS while there own financial book is a mess and debt is sky-rocketing. Is it not THERE responsablity to fix the issues at hand? Just because someone is the first to fall, doesn't mean it isn't there fault.

If Greece isn't fixing there income and claiming there TAX money and decreasing the government jobs,etc is it not there own fault they are falling? Just because average citizens who are USED to the way they live and have 0 knowledge of ALL the financial problems of there country, doesn't mean that actions cannot be made just because you piss off your people. # happens and when you want to SAVE your country form DEFAULT take it in, like you took in your easy life. Because a DEFAULT would not make it better!

So if Italy would fall after Greece because they messed up and the Eu market is going under, is it not BOTH parties fault? Can Italy just say, well Greece messed up and because of that we fell 2! Hell no! They have a messed up financial situation as well!

This is the problem of the world today, people not taking responsability for there own mistakes. Blaming other people/countries for the causes of there downfall.

Wonder why China is not helping in the Eu crisis, maybe they GET IT?

Found this article on fff.org.com. Hornbergers Blog.

American statists say, “Don’t worry. We’re not like Greece. We’re rich. We have lots more people to tax here than they do in Greece.” That’s true but we also have something else that Greece doesn’t have: a vast military empire that sucks off the private sector as much as the welfare-state sector does. Bases all over the world, occupations of two countries, assassination programs, torture facilities, secret prisons, suppliers, contractors and sub-contractors, and fancy jets and golf courses for the generals and admirals. And most important, a fierce determination on the part of the warfare-state dole recipients to oppose any reduction of their dole, much less a total dismantling of the empire. We’re told that “national security” is at stake. Without this vast military empire, the nation will supposedly fall to the communists, or the terrorists, or the drug dealers, or the illegal aliens.

And not just America, Europe too.. Imo.

Originally posted by Imogene72
reply to post by Required01

 

Hello, I would really like to see a link providing all that data you have posted, such as retirement at 50 years of age and 80% of the population being government employees, as both are far from true. But I'd like to see where you get your data from.
And as far as what you mentioned about a generous offer by the EU, too many politicians and journalists, including Wolfgang Schäuble, have stated about this haircut, that no country would accept it, unless it was forced to do so, because this package means that the country will stop making its own decisions (national sovereignty will no longer be national).

edit on 2-11-2011 by Imogene72 because: (no reason given)

Stop being lazy and use GOOGLE!

You really think i'm going to do the work for you? IF you keep up with the news WORLDWIDE you know this. It's in the papers daily.

Well, don't take it go DEFAULT and see what happens then, you think you will still run the country when YOU desided to default it?

You really think Greece would NEVER get full ownership og Greece back? Come on use that grey mass of yours. The reason they would remove the prevelige to make desisions is, because the desisions they made got them into this mess! So the G20 will form a plan to recover and get it back into a decend running government.

Once greece proves/shows it is capable of making the correct choices, it will regain there country.

I'm still sitting here wondering....

did greece ever get out of the mess their debt for the olympics made?? or is this one of the main things dragging them down now??

the reason why I am asking is that obama is gonna be making another pitch to have the olympics in chicago this month I believe.....so, well, we are already up a creek without a paddle, and might be digging ourselves a much bigger hole for ourselves soon!!!

by the way, to say that the greeks have lost their say..well, just remember you said that when it comes time for you to lose your say!!!

Originally posted by Kelmi

Originally posted by Required01

Yes ofcourse, why should Greece take responcability for there economics right? it's not there fault, they could not have prevented this. Come on seriously this was well known for years, 80% there are GOVERNMENT employees, and have 50 year retirement plans. Not to mention all the tax evasion is going on. Only a handful payed the taxes, other simply didn't. Have you any idea how much money that is?

So now that it has come to an almost certain collapse of the country we should not blame them? And not blame them for possibly taking down at least the EU economy and markets?

You know, if i loan you a 100 units of a new currency that i just created out of thin air, and make you pay
back 150 units. How can you do that? Its all a ponzi. you cant pay back unles someone else takes a new loan
of that same currency.
Thats the hole point of this moneysystem, its a scam and it will crash.

They are the first to fail, yes! But ill say in 2 years there will be more of these countries wether greece will default or not.

Really you think the Euro is a scam? LOL sure just becaue it's 'new' doesn't mean it's a scam. Again for the millionst time, Greece has 80% of there jobs as GOVERNMENT jobs! This doesn't generate money, it COSTS money. Because GOVERNMENT employees are payed out of TAX money, but guess what they don't pay taxes!

If the country was smart like most other countries, they would SELL certain things to the 'private' sector so they can take TAX money from that! Instead they wanted everything to keep it as it is.

Another poster in a similar thread made a great observation as well, because like me he had BEEN there. Unlike many others who feel they know it all just from reading posts LOL. He said the following

"3 employees where sitting on a bench at a museum doing nothing, this was in december way past the tourist season. Those people are government employees who get payed for sitting around with 3 people waiting for that 10 visitors what would pass that DAY."

And this happens everywhere in Greece! But yeah it's the ponzi scam! Blaim a new currency!

Originally posted by Kelmi
Greece is not draging anything, we are all in deep # in this FIAT money system that is doomed to crash.
Only way out is to print more money or let the system crash, thats all they can do

I agree with this to a point.
The problem here is systemic, it's not Greece alone. In fact, Italy and Portugal are possibly in even worse shape than Greece are. What we're seeing here is the inevitable decline of capitalism.
Greed always destroys from within...
the unfortunate thing is that those in positions of power have already primed themselves to profit even in the face of the destruction of the financial system... so that they're willing to advocate and facilitate that collapse.

we're all screwed

have a nice day!

I love that people ACTUALLY buy that it's somehow the lazy greedy PEOPLE of Greece causing the problem. NOT the banks sucking the life out of the World. Why do you buy this? Will you buy this when they say it here? Will you blame yourselves that you got tricked into a system where people made up debts for you to pay that you had no control over?

Originally posted by thejlxc
I love that people ACTUALLY buy that it's somehow the lazy greedy PEOPLE of Greece causing the problem. NOT the banks sucking the life out of the World. Why do you buy this? Will you buy this when they say it here? Will you blame yourselves that you got tricked into a system where people made up debts for you to pay that you had no control over?

Any proof of your claims?
2nd

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by thejlxc
I love that people ACTUALLY buy that it's somehow the lazy greedy PEOPLE of Greece causing the problem. NOT the banks sucking the life out of the World. Why do you buy this? Will you buy this when they say it here? Will you blame yourselves that you got tricked into a system where people made up debts for you to pay that you had no control over?

Any proof of your claims?
2nd

Are you kidding me?

You do understand the whole crisis is about debt right?

So, then the people who own that debt are very likely at fault. They call for endless sanctions, I mean Austerity, against anyone under this debt monster for over a hundred years. Proof? LOL!!!!! Wow.

Google Economic Collapse Banks Fault.

There ya go.

Originally posted by thejlxc

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by thejlxc
I love that people ACTUALLY buy that it's somehow the lazy greedy PEOPLE of Greece causing the problem. NOT the banks sucking the life out of the World. Why do you buy this? Will you buy this when they say it here? Will you blame yourselves that you got tricked into a system where people made up debts for you to pay that you had no control over?

Any proof of your claims?
2nd

Are you kidding me?

You do understand the whole crisis is about debt right?

So, then the people who own that debt are very likely at fault. They call for endless sanctions, I mean Austerity, against anyone under this debt monster for over a hundred years. Proof? LOL!!!!! Wow.

Google Economic Collapse Banks Fault.

There ya go.

LOL, your funny.

the WHOLE WORLD is in debt! The USA has such a big debt that the worlds money is not enough to pay it off. And this was before they raised there debt sealing! Do you see the USA in the same boat as Greece right now? Ofcourse it's about debt, and how is that debt made?

By spending money YOU don't have! So you get a LOAN from the bank, witch creates a debt! And because BANKS get more money of debt (interest rates) they LOAN you more. So is it the banks fault for giving you more, or is it your fault for asking more?

You're a classic example of 'pointing your finger'. Always blame the other party instead of owning up to your mistakes.

Google Green Bears, and you will find green bears.

There you go.

reply to post by Required01






First of all, I resent the "lazy" characterization you so easily and eagerly seem to label people with.
Then, I would like to reverse the question: Do YOU think I am going to do all the work for you???
What you stated is false and propagandistic, and since I am better informed obviously than you are,
you should get your facts straight. If you are unable to do so, I will do it for you.

Here is a research showing the annual average of working hours per country:
cib.natixis.com...
As you can see, nobody tops Greece.

Here are two links providing you with info about the retirement age in Greece:
seekingalpha.com...
aleksandreia.wordpress.com...
As you can see, your facts were false, since retirement age in Greece varies from 58 to 61 years of age.

Here is a link with the number of public sector workers in Greece:
www.philip-atticus.com...
Hmm... 8% of the population and 18% of the active labor force.

So, I hope that now you can see you are wrong. Next time, please be more open minded and not so quick on judgement. Seems like you were lazy to research, and easy to believe the propaganda.

ATS: DENY IGNORANCE

reply to post by Required01

Two guys walk into a bar. The first guy goes to the bartender and asks for a beer. The bartender says Sure, but that’ll be two bucks.

The guy says he doesn’t have two bucks, but explains he works across the street in the grocery store twaddling turnips all day and that he gets paid tomorrow and would be in to settle up then, provided that met with the bartender’s approval.

The bartender responds, Yeah . . . I knew you looked familiar. Let me write your name down on a tab-card and you can initial it and come in and pay me tomorrow, but it’s gonna cost you $2.25 because I have to do some extra administration stuff keeping track and all.

The second guy, who observed this whole transaction, made a similar request and offered to pay for his beer later. The bartender extends the same deal and explains it will be $2.25 and payment would be expected tomorrow. The second guy chimes in and says well, tomorrow might not be good on account of he only worked one day last week and that money’s already spent but he’d be glad to sign the tab if he could pay the bartender later when he made more money.

The bartender, being an astute businessman, says that if he doesn’t pay him tomorrow, the beer now costs $2.50 and that will go up twenty five cents per day until he pays him off. They shake on the deal and the second guy gets his beer.

The bartender then rings the original $2 for the beer in as today’s sales and starts ringing in twenty five cents a day beyond that as revenue. He figures he’s on to something good and extends the offer to everyone who comes in the bar. His revenue looks good. His boss is thrilled because the bartender keeps showing great levels of income by way of the money owed to the bar.

The second guy decides he’s gonna make himself real popular and buy a bunch of beers for the rest of the folks in the bar . . . instant friends, super popular and everyone on the street likes him. He’s so popular, they tell him to run for mayor. Basically, he’s buying popularity with money he doesn’t have. If you were there, I strongly doubt you’d say ‘no thanks’ to the ‘free’ beverage.

Unfortunately, after three weeks, the second guy mayor-to-be still hasn’t paid for the initial beers and the corresponding interest revenue created through the transaction doesn’t exist either except on paper. Meanwhile, the bartender looks rich on paper but he doesn’t have enough cash to even pay attention let alone his mortgage. He can’t even buy more beer to sell.

Who’s the retard? The folks who got the free beer, the guy who came in and bought the beer on charm, or the bartender for not finding out definitively whether or not this guy had any reasonable expectation to pay for his beer.

I’m thinking the bartender is the intellectual gnat on that pile of crap because he was the one who had something to lose in all of this but he was too busy looking at how much he could make instead of determining how much the customer could realistically pay.

So, if it is common knowledge through google as you so eloquently reminded another poster, that Greece as a country is akin to the second guy who got the free beer, who’s the dumb-assed butt-wad in this scenario?

Is it Greece for pulling the old Let me pay you Tuesday for a hamburger bought today or is it the greedy prick performance bonus bankers who showed great interest revenue buying up the bonds or t-bills or whatever instruments Greece was signing for their ‘free burger’? Who’s fault is it for not determining up front if there was a reasonable expectation to be repaid based on Greece’s level of income.

I'm thinking the slow duck in the financial pond here isn't the people of Greece for taking the free burger, nor is it the government of Greece for buying the burger on credit knowing that it really wasn’t worth the paper the credit note was printed on.

The dumb-ass in all of this is the bankers for giving credit to an unworthy recipient so they could inflate their revenue stream with useless paper, garnering bonuses in pretend gains and placating holders of stock skyrocketing on false pretense.

In reality, almost every country in the world is the second guy and there were a whack of greedy prick bankers out there making their revenue stream look aweful pretty based on buying up those second guy notes.

Now that those notes are due, turds are a flyin’ and all the greedy prick bankers who tried to make a whack of dough off the stupidity of others ended up caught in that very web of stupidity. What we've got now is the fact that governments laden with former banksters don't want to see their past employers (and holders of the stock certificates that make up their golden parachutes) suffer, they're firing up the presses and paying off the banks at varing percentages on the dollar, regardless the affect it may have down the road on those on the street.

Follow the money

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by thejlxc

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by thejlxc
I love that people ACTUALLY buy that it's somehow the lazy greedy PEOPLE of Greece causing the problem. NOT the banks sucking the life out of the World. Why do you buy this? Will you buy this when they say it here? Will you blame yourselves that you got tricked into a system where people made up debts for you to pay that you had no control over?

Any proof of your claims?
2nd

Are you kidding me?

You do understand the whole crisis is about debt right?

So, then the people who own that debt are very likely at fault. They call for endless sanctions, I mean Austerity, against anyone under this debt monster for over a hundred years. Proof? LOL!!!!! Wow.

Google Economic Collapse Banks Fault.

There ya go.

LOL, your funny.

the WHOLE WORLD is in debt! The USA has such a big debt that the worlds money is not enough to pay it off. And this was before they raised there debt sealing! Do you see the USA in the same boat as Greece right now? Ofcourse it's about debt, and how is that debt made?

By spending money YOU don't have! So you get a LOAN from the bank, witch creates a debt! And because BANKS get more money of debt (interest rates) they LOAN you more. So is it the banks fault for giving you more, or is it your fault for asking more?

You're a classic example of 'pointing your finger'. Always blame the other party instead of owning up to your mistakes.

Google Green Bears, and you will find green bears.

There you go.

You're an example of someone so afraid that someone else is right, that you literally deny reality itself. I understand man, good luck to you. Maybe you'll remember this when it happens.

Originally posted by Imogene72
reply to post by Required01

 

First of all, I resent the "lazy" characterization you so easily and eagerly seem to label people with.
Then, I would like to reverse the question: Do YOU think I am going to do all the work for you???
What you stated is false and propagandistic, and since I am better informed obviously than you are,
you should get your facts straight. If you are unable to do so, I will do it for you.

I don't care what you resent, i said nothing that is propagandistic, is said Greece is responsable for there current state PERIOD.

Here is a research showing the annual average of working hours per country:
cib.natixis.com...
As you can see, nobody tops Greece.

Send something i can read.

Here is a link with the number of public sector workers in Greece:
www.philip-atticus.com...
Hmm... 8% of the population and 18% of the active labor force.

So here you proved MY point that 82% of the LABOR FORCE is working as an governemnt employee! Witch are payed from TAX money, that the citizens of Greece simply don't pay (evade). Hence my remark that they should privatize more!

So, I hope that now you can see you are wrong. Next time, please be more open minded and not so quick on judgement. Seems like you were lazy to research, and easy to believe the propaganda.

I don't judge, i stated a fact. YOU asked me to supply links of things covered in the news. Hence my lazy remark, because i'm not going to do that. If people doubt my statements, google them.

I don't believe in propaganda, all i'm saying is that Greece is responsable for the mess there in, simple. You trying to put words in my mouth is something you do not me.

pointing fingers is easy, as you can see with your own info, 82% of the people that work in Greece have government jobs, witch are payed with tax money that people don't pay. This generates debt, and is the fault of Greece that they did not act on this and let it happen.

Originally posted by thejlxc

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by thejlxc

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by thejlxc
I love that people ACTUALLY buy that it's somehow the lazy greedy PEOPLE of Greece causing the problem. NOT the banks sucking the life out of the World. Why do you buy this? Will you buy this when they say it here? Will you blame yourselves that you got tricked into a system where people made up debts for you to pay that you had no control over?

Any proof of your claims?
2nd

Are you kidding me?

You do understand the whole crisis is about debt right?

So, then the people who own that debt are very likely at fault. They call for endless sanctions, I mean Austerity, against anyone under this debt monster for over a hundred years. Proof? LOL!!!!! Wow.

Google Economic Collapse Banks Fault.

There ya go.

LOL, your funny.

the WHOLE WORLD is in debt! The USA has such a big debt that the worlds money is not enough to pay it off. And this was before they raised there debt sealing! Do you see the USA in the same boat as Greece right now? Ofcourse it's about debt, and how is that debt made?

By spending money YOU don't have! So you get a LOAN from the bank, witch creates a debt! And because BANKS get more money of debt (interest rates) they LOAN you more. So is it the banks fault for giving you more, or is it your fault for asking more?

You're a classic example of 'pointing your finger'. Always blame the other party instead of owning up to your mistakes.

Google Green Bears, and you will find green bears.

There you go.

You're an example of someone so afraid that someone else is right, that you literally deny reality itself. I understand man, good luck to you. Maybe you'll remember this when it happens.

Are you freakin kidding me? I deny reality? DUDE get the BASICS of what a bank does will you. They LOAN money to MAKE money. People LOAN money because they don't have it thereselves!

Your an example of someone who clearly can't answer ANYTHING asked of him. And there post a person judgement of a person he does not know.

Just keep pointing fingers and blaming anything and everyone around you except what you see in the mirror!

Good luck with that. Don't come crying when it kicks you in the face.

Originally posted by GoalPoster
reply to post by Required01

Two guys walk into a bar.

Stopped reading after this.
2nd