Accused Tucson shooter seeks end to medication

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A U.S. appeals court panel wrestled on Tuesday with whether Tucson shooting rampage suspect Jared Loughner should be compelled to undergo further psychiatric treatment at a Missouri prison hospital. Loughner, 23, has pleaded not guilty to 49 criminal charges, including first-degree murder, stemming from the January shooting spree that killed six people and wounded 13 others, among them U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

source

well we all here know who this guy is..the question is what do you ATS think should be allowed? he has proven he is violent and erratic when not on medication, my vote is that he is never allowed to stop ever...however my freedom bone is tingling in a bad way when i say that...

what do you think ATS?

The Arizona Democrat, who was meeting with constituents outside a supermarket at the time, was shot through the head and is still recovering. U.S. District Judge Larry Burns declared Loughner mentally incompetent in May, citing the conclusions of two medical experts who said he suffered from schizophrenia, disordered thinking and delusions.
Then in September, Burns granted a government request for an additional four months to restore Loughner's fitness so he can stand trial. Loughner's attorneys are seeking to overturn that decision. The two sides argued their case on Tuesday at hearing in San Francisco before a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
In the hearing, the judges sought to ascertain whether continuing to forcibly medicate Loughner with anti-psychotic drugs -- a practice opposed by the defense but which Burns has on three occasions declined to halt -- would interfere with his ability to assist in his own defense. "If the side effects have caused that, wouldn't the government be in a position where they could not try him?" appeals Judge J. Clifford Wallace asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Christina Cabanillas said Burns had left the door open for that matter to be determined at a later time. Judges Marsha Berzon and Jay Bybee asked why Loughner's attorneys had not presented any witnesses at a hearing before Burns on extending the treatment deadline. Defense lawyer Ellis Johnston III responded that it was the government's burden to prove his client should be sent back to Missouri.

The federal Bureau of Prisons should provide a treatment plan to the court, Johnston said, and a court should be allowed to review it. "What Mr. Loughner wants is to not be forcibly medicated," Johnston said. No decision was announced from the bench, and the judges did not indicate when they would rule. (Reporting by Dan Levine; Editing by Steve Gorman and Cynthia Johnston)

here is the rest of the article for those that cant get to it. source

reply to post by CaDreamer


Explanation: S&F!

It doesn't matter what they do to make him psychologically fit to stand trial!

Here is why.... His mental state after the fact doesn't count!

He could 100% mentally fit and they'd still have to find him NOT GUILTY due to reasons of insanity!

Personal Disclosure: Mens Rhea ... [i.e. guilty mind] did he possses that?

I am a mental health professional, in the field for 10 years...

In California, you commit a felony while in a psychotic state and you go straight to a state mental hospital. If you refuse medications there, the hospital has to file a court order to request involuntary medication. If the judge in the county of jurisdiction ordered "Restore to Competency" then there you'll stay until you are ready to be released back to the county for trial. The judge can order the offender/patient to stay in treatment (and submit to taking medications) on an outpatient basis. Although Arizona laws may be a little different, my guess is the court will deny Loughner's writ and force him to stay med compliant so he can go to trial. If/when he is released from the hospital, and either the charges are dropped or he is acquitted, the county can file a petition to conserve Loughner (that basically means the county "adopts" you and takes over your life - you lose all constitutional rights). The conservator can place you in any locked or unlocked facility that is appropriate.

If he is found guilty, he will be sent to either a state institution for the criminally insane or to a prison that has a separate psych ward.

Hope that helps a little in understanding mental health laws. Check the Welfare and Institutions code in your state for specifics.

First its odd how I got to this thread. I was reading a thread about a an odd bird that was found in PA. and my first thoughts were it was the bird Jared Loughner talked about on his youtube channel. Then I clicked on this thread no thinking it had anything to do with Loughner and go figure it was.

My thoughts are. If he says he doesnt want drugs he shouldnt get em. I'm not saying we free the pyscho, but we have him in jail, if he goes off the chain in there I am 110% positive it would not get to the point it did in Tucson. We have him locked down what is the point of drugging him? Eventually, those drugs will make him crazy and possibly admit to something he hadnt done (cuz it happens). They could blackmail him now and probably have promising him off the drugs if he admits to all 49 counts some of which I am sure are a stretch.

There are many other ways to straighten that kid out other then feed him synthetics. Really, what they are doing is exactly what he thought about the system in the first place. They're fulfilling his phrophecy. Maybe we should change the system and show this kid there is a better way to deal with life then blowing peoples' domes off.

reply to post by Rockerchic4God


Would it not make more sense to see him in court "himself." Meaning, detox the kid and then set trial so that when he is in court the Jury and Judge can see him for what he is. Not how he is in between dosing. If the kid is clean for a year bring him into trial and if he is still off his rocker sentence him, then drug him. Not drug him then sentence him...

Its like a company that bugs their all workers' computers with child porn, just in case. This case should have been a open and closed case. Its not like he hid his face when he decided to go Terminator.

reply to post by CaDreamer


why would you feel that another human is not allowed to be released from a prison of medication? medications do more harm than good. hell, medications probably started the problems. 5-htp would work wonders on him. but a chemical cocktail medication??? i would wish death on somebody before a chemical cocktail..

Originally posted by Rockerchic4God
I am a mental health professional, in the field for 10 years...

In California, you commit a felony while in a psychotic state and you go straight to a state mental hospital. If you refuse medications there, the hospital has to file a court order to request involuntary medication. If the judge in the county of jurisdiction ordered "Restore to Competency" then there you'll stay until you are ready to be released back to the county for trial. The judge can order the offender/patient to stay in treatment (and submit to taking medications) on an outpatient basis. Although Arizona laws may be a little different, my guess is the court will deny Loughner's writ and force him to stay med compliant so he can go to trial. If/when he is released from the hospital, and either the charges are dropped or he is acquitted, the county can file a petition to conserve Loughner (that basically means the county "adopts" you and takes over your life - you lose all constitutional rights). The conservator can place you in any locked or unlocked facility that is appropriate.

If he is found guilty, he will be sent to either a state institution for the criminally insane or to a prison that has a separate psych ward.

Hope that helps a little in understanding mental health laws. Check the Welfare and Institutions code in your state for specifics.

Can you explain to me why mental health professionals keep prescribing chemical mixes that suck? Every medication gets a late night commercial sooner or later. You know: "have you or a loved one....."

Is it because y'all get fat checks and aren't really in it for the humanitarianism? Not targeting you, I'm just asking in general...

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by CaDreamer

 

why would you feel that another human is not allowed to be released from a prison of medication? medications do more harm than good. hell, medications probably started the problems. 5-htp would work wonders on him. but a chemical cocktail medication??? i would wish death on somebody before a chemical cocktail..

that is why i said my freedom bone was tingling in a bad way. my emotions tell me that this man should never see the light of day without having been thoroughly medicated for the rest of his life.

that somehow to me doesnt really seem fair, to him at least. his victims though... it is the least we can do for them.

guess i am torn on this issue.

Loughner is a patsy. They had more bullet wounds in the victims than rounds held in the magazine. They want his brain nice and fried so he can't follow what is going on or defend himself.

Originally posted by starviego
Loughner is a patsy. They had more bullet wounds in the victims than rounds held in the magazine. They want his brain nice and fried so he can't follow what is going on or defend himself.

patsy my white booty...even if there where others firing within the crowd it is certain that he did indeed do what he is accused of, there are dozens and dozens of witnesses... to not believe that you have to be insane.

Originally posted by CaDreamer
there are dozens and dozens of witnesses... to not believe that you have to be insane.

It does appear that Loughner was there with a gun. However, no ballistics evidence has been released that traces every round fired to his gun. If there was another shooter, as the evidence indicates, then this crime cannot claim to be solved.

tucsoncitizen.com...
"Police arrest man near Thornydale and Magee Roads who is suspected of being connected to the shooting of Giffords and others. A third man is being sought."

www.humanevents.com...
Pima County Sheriff's Deputy Rich Kastigar told reporters that a rifle with an extended magazine was found at the scene of the shooting spree..
[Official version says pistol was used.]

www.youtube.com...
"Some witnesses told LE... that they thought there was someone was with him... it looked like he was acting with someone...."

reply to post by starviego


interesting, wonder if any other evidence will turn up, i didnt know bout the other possible shooters... good to know thank you. i hope they catch the bastards